End of an era for the giant flying boat.
http://www.timescolonist.com/martin-mars-water-bomber-grounded-after-53-years-in-b-c-1.624458
http://www.timescolonist.com/martin-mars-water-bomber-grounded-after-53-years-in-b-c-1.624458
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The Staff of SOH
Goodbye, So Long, Farewell, Martin Mars
- Thread starter Moses03
- Start date
Sad, there goes an era:salute:, my brother and I were only today looking at videos of that plane (Coulson Loggging right?) on youtube and remarking how impressive, or better, majestic that plane truly is!
Sascha
Edit: Why is that ship called Hawaii Mars when it is flying in Canada?
Sascha
Edit: Why is that ship called Hawaii Mars when it is flying in Canada?
Ferry_vO
Retired SOH Administrator
That's the original name when it joined the service.
Sad to see it go, let's hope they'll end up in a good museum somewhere..
Maybe it could even be kept in flying condition and used for luxury charter flights. In these days that would be a novelty, travelling by flying boat!
Sascha
tommieboy
SOH-CM-2025
Bummer, I knew it couldn't fly forever, but it is still a capable aircraft for its current job. Though it might be better off in a good museum in the long haul....even the (U.S.) National Naval Aviation Museum has too many aircraft in it's inventory (just my opinion) to properly take care of all of them. I know most of the larger aircraft can't be displayed / stored indoors; it just a given that those stored outdoors (close to the ocean environment) for extended periods of time, just don't fair so well.
I thought at least one of them was supposed to stay in B.C. once they all were retired from fire fighting service????
Tommy
[h=1][/h]
I thought at least one of them was supposed to stay in B.C. once they all were retired from fire fighting service????
Tommy
[h=1][/h]
Skyhawk_310R
Charter Member
Not really sure if the great plane didn't hang on to duty several years past reason simply due to the undeniable emotional attachment to the aircraft's legacy and tradition.
Honestly, though, there are many modifications to jumbo jet airliners such as 747's that have already been performed to such aircraft in California, and they are highly effective. With modern water pumps, you can fill them quickly, and you don't have to have a huge lake nearby.
Ken
Hey All,
I work for the "outfit" that cancelled the contract for the Mars. I am not in aviation but I do feel the loss. I have seen the plane many times and listened to it's engines - awesome beyond belief. The mars could carry alot but was sssoooo ssslllooowww. This plus it's age were the issues as I understand them. Now what if the engines on the Mars could have been replaced by powerful turboprops... The airframe likely couldn't take it... but still... What if...
-Ed-
I work for the "outfit" that cancelled the contract for the Mars. I am not in aviation but I do feel the loss. I have seen the plane many times and listened to it's engines - awesome beyond belief. The mars could carry alot but was sssoooo ssslllooowww. This plus it's age were the issues as I understand them. Now what if the engines on the Mars could have been replaced by powerful turboprops... The airframe likely couldn't take it... but still... What if...
-Ed-
tommieboy
SOH-CM-2025
I think Coulson did go through that exercise (the calcs) of converting over to the Electra's turboprops and flight deck, and it does work as I understand it. But, I guess it all come down to the return on the investment......
I should add that I would rather the Martin Mars be left as is; a radial engined aircraft. Still, I wonder if Coulson had their engineer generate some preliminary sketches on how they intended to mount the turboprops.
Tommy
Skyhawk_310R
Charter Member
Ed,
Excellent insight into the decisions. Certainly no one connected to these aircraft truly wanted to do this. As I wrote last night, the emotional appeal we all had actually caused everyone to look past the many limitations. But, eventually, the limitations became unavoidable. The only place in the world this aircraft was effective at its job was a heavily forested area with very large freshwater lakes where range was never a consideration. In that role it was a very plodding but highly capable airframe for the job. And of course, that's exactly the area it performed.
Beyond that, the prime draw was the ethereal joy of seeing such a magnificent old lady continue to perform in the air. But, going forward, for large dump capacity, modification of a jumbo jet would achieve roughly the same capability. Yes, it will take a longer time to refill the tanks on the ground than using the ram induction system on the Mars. However, the speed of response would make up a hearty bit of that lost time. And of course you would have to have long runways with the weight bearing capacity, so in that area that might actually be the limiting factor preventing this being done.
Ken
CWOJackson
Charter Member
magoo
SOH-CM-2013
I visited the compound one winter about twelve years ago. It was a lucky moment, one of the pilots was hanging out and gave me a tour. It was so informal back then. We yapped for about an hour. When I asked him what circumstance could end the career of these planes, his answer made sense, but also raised a topic that I've never read online.
While he claimed that they had the capability to maintain the Mars flying boats just about in perpetuity, it was the skyrocketing insurance costs that were making ops less viable each year. Apparently the insurance brokers would rather underwrite more modern aircraft type, whether they were more capable or not... (How many Cl-415's does it take to change a lightbulb...?) At time, he said they had to re-negotiate their insurance at the beginning of each operational year. More than once, (back then) insurers had threatened to simply pull the plug altogether.
I imagine when one figures in the rising price of high grade av-gas and the depreciation of state and provincial firefighting budgets......the old Martins are just run out of money...
While he claimed that they had the capability to maintain the Mars flying boats just about in perpetuity, it was the skyrocketing insurance costs that were making ops less viable each year. Apparently the insurance brokers would rather underwrite more modern aircraft type, whether they were more capable or not... (How many Cl-415's does it take to change a lightbulb...?) At time, he said they had to re-negotiate their insurance at the beginning of each operational year. More than once, (back then) insurers had threatened to simply pull the plug altogether.
I imagine when one figures in the rising price of high grade av-gas and the depreciation of state and provincial firefighting budgets......the old Martins are just run out of money...