I wonder how many heads will roll for this...

"ExpressJet told KTRK there was a post-flight cabin inspection, but the company couldn’t explain how Wagner was overlooked."

Apparently they did not look too hard.
 
Perhaps he is a very very tiny person :) . You would have thought one of the other passengers would have nudged him awake. Lot of "What If's" in that story.
 
The world is rapidly turning into "blame culture". It is not the airlines fault that the guy fell asleep. He has not been exposed to any hazard. Nevertheless he blames the airline that they didn't find him. Perhaps he should look more carefull at his own role.

Enfin in the end it will result in some small printed letters on the ticket due to which the airline can the airline can not be held responsible for people sleeping in aircraft.......... Not that it solves anything, but at least you can not be held responsable.

What worries me most is the fact we all start to think it is normal.......

Cheers,
Huub
 
I dunno. I find it hard to believe that the flight crew deboarded all the passengers, then closed down the plane without seeing this guy. Maybe it did happen that way, but it just seems unlikely to me.
 
The flight crew may have expected janitorial staff to come on board for the turn around and were just a bit lazy or careless. Stuff happens and there is not always blame to be had. Ultimately Huub is correct, people have to take responsibility for themselves and stop blaming others when they are remiss or careless or asleep. Anyway all is required here is an inter staff memo to check no dopes are on board. ZZZzzzzz.
 
Huub and Naistmith, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. It's the cabin crew's responsibility to do a final walkthrough to make sure everyone is off and there's no other obvious issues. As a matter of fact, back in my Pinnacle days, I had to help the flight attendant with a guy who was so drunk that he was passed out at the end of a terminating flight. The FA and pilot had tried being nice. I got on and yelled at him that if he didn't get up "right now," I'd be calling the airport police to have him removed in handcuffs. That got his attention and he staggered off the plane.

As for janitorial services, that's almost always the same crew that does the luggage loading and everything else on the ground. In both instances where I worked as ground crew, terminators were cleaned before the plane was buttoned up for the night, but that' not written in stone. I suppose an airport could have dedicated custodial staff that cleans planes overnight, but GSO never had that luxury while I was there.
 
huub vink said:
The world is rapidly turning into "blame culture". It is not the airlines fault that the guy fell asleep.
Click to expand...

Agreed, although this can happen to anyone. One wonders how a sleeping passenger can be missed in an empty plane, too ... that is not the passengers fault. Shouldn't happen!
 
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Obviously a sound sleeper, but I would hope that prior to locking the aircraft they would do a quick walk down the isle just to be sure no one left anything, or anyone, behind.

Had this been the Minneapolis airport the story could have ended very differently.
 
huub vink said:
The world is rapidly turning into "blame culture". It is not the airlines fault that the guy fell asleep. He has not been exposed to any hazard. Nevertheless he blames the airline that they didn't find him. Perhaps he should look more carefull at his own role.

Enfin in the end it will result in some small printed letters on the ticket due to which the airline can the airline can not be held responsible for people sleeping in aircraft.......... Not that it solves anything, but at least you can not be held responsable.

What worries me most is the fact we all start to think it is normal.......

Cheers,
Huub
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Sorry, Huub, but it is the airlines fault. Yes, the dude fell asleep in his chair but the airlines don't get to have their cake and eat it too! The airlines are very quick to point out that while inside their airplane you have to follow their instructions. But, that also means the airlines are responsible for you while you are one of their passengers. Everyone connected to that flight from the standpoint of passenger responsibility should be fired. That is an inexcusable error. Like the man said, if he had a medical issue then he could have died. Flight attendants are assigned primary duty to confirm the airplane is unboarded, if for no other reason than to confirm everyone is OK.

Ken
 
The owner of the action needed to create this situation was the passenger (he was the only one who could allow himself to fall asleep). This action was not in the field of control of the airline. In other the words, the airline did not have any influence on the root cause of this incident.

The after flight check is a control barrier. It is obviously this wasn't performed correctly. This is what we call a failure chain.

There is a difference between the cause and failing safety barriers. As said what worries me is that people don't understand these differences any more.

Welcome to the art of safety engineering.

Huub
 
"ExpressJet told KTRK there was a post-flight cabin inspection, but the company couldn’t explain how Wagner was overlooked."

The assumption being that shortcuts aren't being taken anywhere else. I wonder if this post flight cabin inspection is certified by a signature?
 
Suppose this person had been in a diabetic coma - or worse, had suffered a fatal MI and had died instantly in flight?
 
SSI01 said:
Suppose this person had been in a diabetic coma - or worse, had suffered a fatal MI and had died instantly in flight?
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Suppose the third world war had started or even worse the aliens invaded earth....... don't let your imagination lead you. What happened happened, nothing more nothing less. A guy fell asleep and was overlooked.
 
huub vink said:
Suppose the third world war had started or even worse the aliens invaded earth....... don't let your imagination lead you. What happened happened, nothing more nothing less. A guy fell asleep and was overlooked.
Click to expand...

You have a right to your opinion, of course. But, as someone who is paid to be a pilot, I have to reject your summary of accountability. Whether people agree with it or not, passengers are the responsibility of that flight crew and that is not negotiable nor transferable. It doesn't matter why he fell asleep. It only matters that the flight crew failed miserably in the execution of their primary duties. There are international laws that can sanction me significantly for failure to follow the instructions of a flight crew as a passenger. Those same laws give me special legal authority as the pilot-in-command to direct and maintain good order and safety for my passengers. Therefore, when I surrender my normal liberty as a passenger on a ship or plane, it means the flight crew has absolutely no option to escape accountability (meaning their sole failure) for failure to look after my welfare while their passenger.

The primary duty of a flight attendant is not to serve drinks and meals, nor pass out pillows! Their primary duty is to account for the passengers and maintain situational awareness to ensure their welfare is maintained. That includes emergency first aid, which they are certified to perform, but also basic accountability for the passenger's whereabouts. Like I said, this was not merely a safety issue for the passenger, but it is also a primary security duty, and in this case the flight crew failed miserably on both counts.

Ken
 
In answer to the title. Probably none but yet another lesson will be learned. Seems to be be an awful lot of people these days needing basic education.[h=3][/h]
 
Ken, please note that the fact "a guy fell asleep and was overlooked" is a fact and certainly not an opion. Crew members are responsable for the safety of passengers and not for passengers in general and there might even be a clause "during flight". Its the responsability of the passengers to follow instruction given by the flight crew. You could wonder whether sleeping in a dark aircraft is really an unsafe situation and whether the passenger has ignored the instruction to leave the aircraft.......

The legal system at your side of the pond is quite different than at this side. Therefore I expect the guy will try to make some bucks out of it.

But that was not my message. In my opinion we are holding others far too easy responsable for things we could have avoided. And as often things are blown up to huge proportions by using the "yes, but what if" principle.

In the end the guy had a free nap! He was definitely not on an aircraft from RYAN-Air otherwise he would have been charged for it!

Cheers,
Huub
 
huub vink said:
Ken, please note that the fact "a guy fell asleep and was overlooked" is a fact and certainly not an opion. Crew members are responsable for the safety of passengers and not for passengers in general and there might even be a clause "during flight". Its the responsability of the passengers to follow instruction given by the flight crew. You could wonder whether sleeping in a dark aircraft is really an unsafe situation and whether the passenger has ignored the instruction to leave the aircraft.......

The legal system at your side of the pond is quite different than at this side. Therefore I expect the guy will try to make some bucks out of it.

But that was not my message. In my opinion we are holding others far too easy responsable for things we could have avoided. And as often things are blown up to huge proportions by using the "yes, but what if" principle.

In the end the guy had a free nap! He was definitely not RYAN-Air otherwise he would have been charged for it!

Cheers,
Huub
Click to expand...

Actually the airline's responsibility doesn't stop once they're on the ground and the aircrew walks off. As long as the passenger is legally on airline property their responsibility remains. Is it different on that side of the pond?

As for him trying to make bucks off this, I've not read anything to suggest he is.
 
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