Justflight purchases of MV products.

[Dumonceau]

I really DON'T want to derail this thread, as its done extremely well, BUT.... Having tried to be a vendor through internet sales, I can confirm with assurity, that if EVERY developer and vendor had to conform to EVERY countries laws that they sell to, then they could NEVER be in a posision to sell ANYTHING TO ANYONE.

Just ask Francoise. He has some recent first hand experience of this.

Well the law and taxes are there for everyone.

 

[ce_zeta]

I really DON'T want to derail this thread, as its done extremely well, BUT.... Having tried to be a vendor through internet sales, I can confirm with assurity, that if EVERY developer and vendor had to conform to EVERY countries laws that they sell to, then they could NEVER be in a posision to sell ANYTHING TO ANYONE.

Just ask Francoise. He has some recent first hand experience of this.

Well.... at the moment when you show a disrespectful behaviour you derailed this thread.

For this reason, I said "Contact with your lawyer". We can start a fight in this thread but will be sterile, for this reason I wrote, Contact with your lawyer for more info.

 

[dougal]

Well.... at the moment when you show a disrespectful behaviour you derailed this thread.

For this reason, I said "Contact with your lawyer". We can start a fight in this thread but will be sterile, for this reason I wrote, Contact with your lawyer for more info.

I've no idea what's going on here so I'm out of here. Don't think i've been disrespectful but anyone else thinks i have then please tell me and I'll promptly apologise. ta ta!

 

[DaveB]

It was always going to get untidy and I see it has. Kinda ironic that the 2 parties concerned are completely amicable about the issue. Not so the lower deck lawyers

ATB
DaveB

 

[roger-wilco-66]

@ce_ceta:

Oh come on. Sorry but:

Kat made an official statement. That was all and should be appreciated.

There's no need to involve lawyers and legal stuff about it. If you want to make a suggestion to MILVIZ, this is very private and in my opinion you should write them an E-Mail. If you air that in the public you can expect opposition.


Cheers,
Mark

PS: normally I don't engage in that kind of mud slinging, but I couldn't resist.

 

[hschuit]

It was always going to get untidy and I see it has. Kinda ironic that the 2 parties concerned are completely amicable about the issue. Not so the lower deck lawyers

ATB
DaveB

+1, can the admins please close this topic, I think it has run it's course.

 

[Roger]

We'll be watching but as long as it stays civil it'll stay open.

Come on now, I really hoped this could remain open, but I don't know for how much longer it will.

 

[dougal]

Come on now, I really hoped this could remain open, but I don't know for how much longer it will.

I REALLY had no intension of offending anyone Roger, and don't see how i did. If I did, in ANY way, then please acept my apolgies.

 

[mal998]

Many of us have seen these kinds of discussions before; that is a public airing of disclaimers, disagreements or statements of non-support between developers and/or retailers. They never end well. It is my humble opinion that such changes in developer support be handled off the air waves. We in the public need only know a decision to end support has been made without hearing all the details about why. It's a business relationship between two companies that really does not concern us outsiders. I for one am satisfied to simply hear that support for a particular product has been terminated. I really don't care to hear all the sorted details about why. "He did this" and "they did that" and so on and so forth.

For what little it's worth, my 2 cents.

 

[Katoun]

Hi,

The problem with that is that we have recently gotten well over 50 support requests for second-hand products which, in all good faith, we cannot support.

So we are telling as many people/clients as we can so that they do not a: buy second-hand products and expect to get support and b: that those who have done so will not try and get support.

To be clear, we do not have ANY issues with Justflight. This isn't about them but about some of the products that have been sold by them for us.

Every support request takes up time and effort. This is time that is taken away from actually building products.

So, the decision was made to make an announcement here as well as on all our available venues.

There was no problem until someone started claiming that we're not allowed to disallow support on those sales.

Just as an FYI, we don't actually HAVE to supply support at all. We do so because we believe in our products.

Thank you.

Kat.

 

[Desert Rat]

Many of us have seen these kinds of discussions before; that is a public airing of disclaimers, disagreements or statements of non-support between developers and/or retailers. They never end well. It is my humble opinion that such changes in developer support be handled off the air waves. We in the public need only know a decision to end support has been made without hearing all the details about why. It's a business relationship between two companies that really does not concern us outsiders. I for one am satisfied to simply hear that support for a particular product has been terminated. I really don't care to hear all the sorted details about why. "He did this" and "they did that" and so on and so forth.

For what little it's worth, my 2 cents.

Thank you.

 

[ce_zeta]

@ce_ceta:

Oh come on. Sorry but:

Kat made an official statement. That was all and should be appreciated.

There's no need to involve lawyers and legal stuff about it. If you want to make a suggestion to MILVIZ, this is very private and in my opinion you should write them an E-Mail. If you air that in the public you can expect opposition.


Cheers,
Mark

PS: normally I don't engage in that kind of mud slinging, but I couldn't resist.

Of course, it's appreciated. And I want to call attention to one issue that should be treated carefully.
If I have opposition in order to prevent some bad suprises in the future for some developers...I accept that. And this is not a private question, surely is interesting for other developers.
They cannot make some statements in public.

The problem with that is that we have recently gotten well over 50 support requests for second-hand products which, in all good faith, we cannot support.

We know that your industry is very exigent. Simmers demand high quality addons at lower prices and fully support. In this industry noboby win millions. We know that. Software business have some dark zones about second hand market and support. When you buy a car or a PC, you have support and a guarantee....In software all is more blurred.

You are focusing the problem in the customers...but support is focused in the product (each unit sold). What is the expected cycle of life of your product? Maybe it's a nonsense provide support for products with X years in the market ( X= any number above 2 years for example) or better... don't provide support for a unit sold 2 or three years ago...like a guarantee more or less.
You can find solutions without enter in conflict zones.

 

[mmann]

You can find solutions without enter in conflict zones.

That's peculiar; I didn't perceive any conflict, just a statement of fact clarifying a position taken with respect to product support.
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[mal998]

Kat,
Understood! Onwards and upwards....

 

[stovall]

I will keep the thread open until all seem to have expressed their opinions. Again Kat made an official announcement that is all. Comments should be directed along those lines.