Weird CTD issue...

[MaskRider]

...your more than welcome. I did see that some of the seaplane "bases" that were maintained by the Dutch at that time appeared to be bases in name only. Some appeared to be described as no more than a gas can (kidding) and some boats. No real infrastructure as we would expect for a base. I will,however, look for some more stuff if you want.

BTW: did the batch file links work for you?

Yes. Apprently this base too, while serving as an actual civilian stop before the war was actually nothing more than the jetty, a workshop and a place for flight crews to take a naps and refuel their planes. It was never a staging location for large operations. Although at the time of the Japanese attack on Manado, there were those six Do-24 flying recon flights from the "base".

MR

 

[bearcat241]

I have not made the pack available to the general-population but if anyone is interested let me know and I'll send you along what there is.

I'm in...seems like a good opportunity to replace the old. I have a Netzero mailbox listed in my SOH user profile. Thanks!

 

[Fibber]

MR........

.....this may be far left field, but.... I looked here at Kakas.. http://www.maplandia.com/indonesia/sulawesi-utara/minahasa/kakas/ by really zooming in it looks like abandoned tracts on the left side of the screen with some strange indentation (round appearing) with apparent overgrowth. Could be a stretch of imagination but craters?

Went back to the "54" site here; http://www.network54.com/Forum/594514/thread/1280293677/KM-USN-IJN+flying+boat+ops+from+Lake+Tondano

Scroll down to Jim Broshot. He gives a small descrip of the seaplane base. It appears to have been little more than a workshop.
That book by Womack on the Dutch East India airforce may have some more in it.

 

[MaskRider]

.....this may be far left field, but.... I looked here at Kakas.. http://www.maplandia.com/indonesia/sulawesi-utara/minahasa/kakas/ by really zooming in it looks like abandoned tracts on the left side of the screen with some strange indentation (round appearing) with apparent overgrowth. Could be a stretch of imagination but craters?

Went back to the "54" site here; http://www.network54.com/Forum/594514/thread/1280293677/KM-USN-IJN+flying+boat+ops+from+Lake+Tondano

Scroll down to Jim Broshot. He gives a small descrip of the seaplane base. It appears to have been little more than a workshop.
That book by Womack on the Dutch East India airforce may have some more in it.

Not at all outside the bell-curve of probability. The area was bombed, by both sides, during the war.

Don't suppose you found any sign of the danged concrete seaplane jetty? ;^)

I posted a comment to Olive, the lady whose site it is, asking her to please identify just where along the perimeter of the lake the seaplane jetty is located. Hope I hear back from her.

Thanks for digging Fibber, I appreciate it.,

MR

 

[Fibber]

Seaplane jetty....

....so far no luck on that but somethings have peaked my curiosity. The lake has evidently undergone some serious sediment problems over the years that might increase the shoreline as well as lessen the depth depending on current flow.
If you look at the picture I referenced you will notice two strange things. On the lower right side there appears to be what looks like a lake-side removed concrete apron with a road leading to it. Second is on the left side of the shore there appears to be a open rectangle-cut indentation on the shore. Nature abhors straight lines and this appears to have them. That alone seems strange. Could it be the ramp and with google filling in the colors with water?
Seems to be a dearth of info unless we delve in the Dutch Navy Archives.

 

[dvslats]

I love this stuff...

Hey guys, if you would like another one to beat your brains out with, google earth the coordinates of this map in the attached file.
I've been at it for several years now.
The Pic was in a long lost pdf document a few hard drives back. I took a Print/Scrn of it from that doc and now have adjusted the contrast hoping for a better resolution.
The name of the strip is Limboeng. Of course that name no longer applies in today's maps. Makes it even more fun.

For the life of me, I can not see an area where this airstrip would have been.
At least now some more texts show on the map plus some rivers can be seen.
From the looks of the picture, it seems it was originally a mosaic of several negatives.

Dave

View attachment Limbo.zip

 

[MaskRider]

Wow. Dave. This is a mystery well worth delving into. I spent a good deal of time early this morning trying to pinpoint this location. There just doesn't seem to be anything down in what the title box calls SW Celebes that matches up. There is a Limboeng over in the SW corner of Borneo. But the terrain around it doesn't look anything like this. The only airfield of note, that I am aware of down in that part of Celebes was/is in the SW corner of Sulawesi (Celebes) at Makassar. And the jumbled-up terrain around and east of Makassar certainly looks like it could contain this set up of runways some where. I am wondering if perhaps theis complex of airstrips sits today under the runways and taxiways of Hasanuddin airport up NE of town?

It would definitely be a great build. I have Makassar airfield on my list of Sulawesi airfield to do but hadn't yet started researching it.

Its odd that Limboeng, spelled just like that, is not present anywhere around in SW Sulawesi (Celebes) but is present in SW Borneo. It has been more my experience that while the names and locations of airfields may come and go, the names of the little villages and towns usually don't change all that much. And it was not at all unusual for operational the map makers at HQ to get the locations and names wrong. The pilots would just go to where ever the brass told them to go. They didn't check to see if the names of the places on the maps were correct.

Great find! It's a "Where's Waldo" puzzle, on steroids!

MR

 

[MaskRider]

....so far no luck on that but somethings have peaked my curiosity. The lake has evidently undergone some serious sediment problems over the years that might increase the shoreline as well as lessen the depth depending on current flow.
If you look at the picture I referenced you will notice two strange things. On the lower right side there appears to be what looks like a lake-side removed concrete apron with a road leading to it. Second is on the left side of the shore there appears to be a open rectangle-cut indentation on the shore. Nature abhors straight lines and this appears to have them. That alone seems strange. Could it be the ramp and with google filling in the colors with water?
Seems to be a dearth of info unless we delve in the Dutch Navy Archives.

Hi Fibber,

Can you give me the coords of the location you are speaking of?

And yes, the lake has a very curious shoreline in that much of it seems to be floating vegetation and I don't think GoogleEarth quite knows what to do with it. It you notice the pictures I posted of the jetty, in the earlier images the jetty it well out past the shoreline but as time goes by the T-bone at the end is the only part still freely in the water.

Thanks!
MR

 

[Fibber]

dvslats...

...typed in Limboeng s\w celebes (Sulawesi) and got this as a response;
Limbung, Kalebajeng, Bajeng, Kabupaten Gowa, Sulawesi Selatan 92152, Indonesia

Now the picture you have indicates a river with curvatures. No where near this is there a river named Gowani, there is a water flow now name "Sungai Takala" that has the same contours as that in your pdf.picture. Could be the same ? However there also appears to be a straightened water flow closer to the co-ords. Maybe the result of development and flood control? There appears to have been a purging of Dutch names replaced with local names. Only fair it is their country and language after-all. Will take a lot more x-referencing to find it.

MR; Sorry can't get the co-ordinates just yet. Don't have the capability on this rig, but if you go to http://www.maplandia.com/indonesia/sulawesi-utara/minahasa/kakas/

and go to the bottom of the lake you will see what I mean. I may have mis-interpreted one side. What I thought was concrete on REALLY going in close may be google fill of a water tex at the spot.

On the "54" spot there is a in-depth post on that jetty and its description.

 

[MaskRider]

You are better re-searcher than I. I see what you mean about the problem with the expanding shoreline. The Jetty could be right in the middle of some of the green stuff. Hopefully it has not been buried. I was still visible in 2012 but as noted the silt had encroached almost to the end of it. The one hint from that personal blog site is that the bunker was just across the road form the jetty. Which makes me think that there is a road close along what was once the shore and that the jetty is fairly close in to was once the shore on the other side of the road. .

Point taken about the names.

Really interesting discussion about cement, too, huh?

 

[MaskRider]

Ok Dave, here is what I am thinking. The only major airfield in SW Sulawesi-Celebes was appx 11 miles NE of the town of Makassar. And apparently was a multi-runway complex. 11 miles NE of town is where the international airport is located today. The name of the WWII airfield was Mandai Airfield. There was a notorious POW camp located there. Over at Pacific Wrecks they list missions flown against Mandai. At least one is described to being flown against the "runways" (plural) at Mandai. Sometimes the targets were referred to as Makassar I, as though there was more than one airstrip. I am beginning to think that some how or another this had to be Limboeng. Any thoughts?

MR

 

[MaskRider]

Ok Dave, Fibber. You guys have made a total believer of me. That Makassar Mandai airfield idea I mentioned above is totally out to lunch. However, the switch that turned on the light-bulb for me came from a web site dedicated to the POWs in the camp at Mandai Airfield. There is a map at the their website. It shows the location of Mandai airfield. As I suspected- it is where the modern airport is located. But also included in the map is the rest of the SW Sulawesi going south from there. I attach the image with arrows added by me. See anything you recognize? So I went down that-a-way in GoogleEarth and lo and beheld! And it totally matches up with the info on that intelligence photo: the town with the modern day name of Limbung is almost exactly 2 1/2 miles NW as in the intel photo notes; the name of the waterway as shown in the old map is listed identical as on the intel map. The whole deal. Not much left in the way of visual evidence in GoogleEarth but I also attached screenies from there. Yes, that waterway you mentioned Fibber? Is this it? It definitley does match up.

Excellent. Another airfield to build!

MR

PS here is link to East Indies Camp Archives website

 

[MaskRider]

So it would lay out looking something like this- with eh runways and river course drawn in.

MR

 

[Fibber]

Hi guys............

.....glad to be of help to you. MR pic one matches that which I found and seems to be the only matching location. Some of the wartime depics seem to be a little removed, but putting in the lats and longs reduced to decimals helped.
You guys are the real workers here I am only a worker bee.
Glad to be of help and now time for a new Blue Moon!

 

[Blood_Hawk23]

Hey Fibber,

Can you find some WWI aerial pics of Biggin Hill? Or any WWI pics of the base.

MR,

Wish I had time to learn what your doing. Want to help redo WWI Europe. LOL

 

[Fibber]

BH.........

"Can you find some WWI aerial pics of Biggin Hill? Or any WWI pics of the base."

Maybe a tall order but I will see what I can find. (Special orders are a 12 pack of Blue Moons!)

 

[Blood_Hawk23]

Yeah its a very tall order. So far I've found a couple descriptions and thats about it. 100 year old history is a PIA. I'm going to run with the standard 900'x2000' of British bases during WWI. I have in the description that hangers and buildings were built on the south end of the field. I'll use old WWII aerials to help place them in a "best guess" location.

 

[dvslats]

However, the switch that turned on the light-bulb for me came from a web site dedicated to the POWs in the camp at Mandai Airfield. There is a map at the their website. It shows the location of Mandai airfield. As I suspected- it is where the modern airport is located. But also included in the map is the rest of the SW Sulawesi going south from there. I attach the image with arrows added by me. See anything you recognize? So I went down that-a-way in GoogleEarth and lo and beheld! And it totally matches up with the info on that intelligence photo: the town with the modern day name of Limbung is almost exactly 2 1/2 miles NW as in the intel photo notes; the name of the waterway as shown in the old map is listed identical as on the intel map. The whole deal. Not much left in the way of visual evidence in GoogleEarth but I also attached screenies from there. Yes, that waterway you mentioned Fibber? Is this it? It definitley does match up.

I've got to say Chris and Fibber, you've nailed it. For some stupid reason I was keeping to the area just south of the dammed up river. The darker area. Probably because that's where the coordinates referenced to.
I thought the US military doesn't make mistakes.
Seriously though, the map from East Indies Camp Archives is the key. I had never seen that one.
Put another notch in the pistol grip.

Now I have to go there in CFS2 and see what it looks like.

Good Work,
Dave

 

[Fibber]

Dvslats\mt....

...you guys are better at the mechanics of this but this is just s thought. Is there anyway to make a transparency of DVSLATS "Limbo" and overlay it on the present photos that we have to give a almost perfect fit for placement?

 

[Fibber]

BH........

..being that Briggin Hill did not become a real areodrome until 1918 some pics are hard to find. It seem that a lot of what was there was torn down in the inter-war period. See this site; (if you already haven't) http://www.rizonjet.com/culture/biggin-hill-the-most-famous-fighter-station-in-the-world

Maybe contact the author dor more info or leads.