Giving an engine a little more power?

[dasuto247]

I check the plane speed and I found it has too much drag, very simple to fix it! It has 22 MPH less speed than the real thing. I'll give attention to it tomorrow.

Cheers

Pepe

 

[Rami]

Just IMHO...

BH,

I tend to shy away from AirWrench for modifying air files, though I DO use it to see how my tweaks modify performance without actually saving my work, that way I can try to match my target numbers as closely as possible.

When you save a CFS2 file in AirWrench, two things happen.

1) A lot of "junk" end up being copies over into the aircraft.cfg file. A "true" CFS2 aircraft.cfg should be between 3 and 5KB. When it's up into the 10KB-plus category, that means a lot of additional information that should not be there has been added. This causes problems for modifications, including having to enter the new data into the airfile AND the .cfg file, and making sure they match precisely, because if they don't, the .cfg file overrides the info in the .air file.

2) There is a thrust characteristic that becomes prevalent when AirWrench is used. Acceleration of the aircraft changes from being steady to consisting of "surges." While I love Captain Kurt's Bf-109 mods, they have this characteristic, along with the Team Daedalus Fw-190s.

 

[Blood_Hawk23]

Airwrench...

I don't have the full version so I only use it to see the results of my changes.

I will say that the spreadsheet works. You still need to know your way around the airfile and cfg. Its not for the faint of heart. Trust me.

I used it on the Albatros DV's prop settings in the airfile. I don't have excel so I had to do things the hard way. It is very promising. According to AER_DaddyO the engine rpms are spot on to a video of the Albatros. Though the idle is higher on mine. that could have been my mistake.

 

[bearcat241]

There is a thrust characteristic that becomes prevalent when AirWrench is used. Acceleration of the aircraft changes from being steady to consisting of "surges." While I love Captain Kurt's Bf-109 mods, they have this characteristic, along with the Team Daedalus Fw-190s.

Not having flown any of these specific types in real life, i still believe that in some warbird fighter models this acceleration surge would be appropriate, especially the turbocharged types. When i read accounts from former WW2 fighter pilots who actually flew them, there have been some accounts where the pilot remarked about how pushing balls to the wall was like a sudden kick. In today's jet age, its easy to experience or imagine such a thing, but back in the golden age of flight, they actually had new prop engine designs which did this as well.

I agree with you Rami regarding the over-reliance on Airwrench mods. It can add a lot of unnecessary fluff to a CFS2 flight model.

 

[peperez]

Here is the fixed airfile

I got the following speeds at the following altitudes:

5,000 ft = 254 kts per hour
10,000 ft = 270 kts per hour
15,000 ft = 282 kts per hour
20,000 ft = 282 kts per hour
25,000 ft = 268 kts per hour
30,000 ft = 242 kts per hour
34,000 ft = 204 kts per hour

View attachment 22485

 

[peperez]

I'll give a look at all planes

May be all of them has too much drag!

Cheers

Pepe

 

[Ivan]

Hello Dasuto et al.

I don't actually fly CFS2 much any more but did at one point, so some of this discussion will be based on CFS1.

The scenario that you described about not being able to out dive and out run a Zero in a F4F-4 Wildcat is actually how I would expect things to happen IRL.
The Wildcat had a higher maximum diving speed but probably a LOT less initial acceleration in the dive.
Its advantage over the Zero wasn't as great as later Allied Fighters. Against the A6M5, the advantage was nil.
The dive speed limitation on the Zero also wasn't because it could not go faster. It was more because the structure was too light to take the aerodynamic forces.

The F4F in either version had no hope of fighting the Zero on even terms. That is why the Thach Weave was invented (and first used at Midway).
With larger numbers in the air, the historical (though not well documented) tactic was to ignore the fellow on your own tail. Concentrate on shooting Zeros off your squadron mates' tails instead.
This works on the premise that the Zero had only enough cannon ammunition (60 rounds per gun) for about 3 good squirts. Once the cannons were done, the Wildcat was pretty resistant to 7.7 mm MG fire especially from the rear.

Bearcat also gave some very good advice on how to actually beat the AI. They do NOT like to use any kind of vertical maneuvers. They only really know how to fly turning fights.

I don't agree with using only the Medium Flight Model though because it takes out way too much of the aerodynamic simulation. If the flight model isn't realistic on Hard, then it should be tuned to work there.

Hope This Helps.
- Ivan.

 

[peperez]

Hello Dasuto et al.

I don't actually fly CFS2 much any more but did at one point, so some of this discussion will be based on CFS1.

The scenario that you described about not being able to out dive and out run a Zero in a F4F-4 Wildcat is actually how I would expect things to happen IRL.
The Wildcat had a higher maximum diving speed but probably a LOT less initial acceleration in the dive.
Its advantage over the Zero wasn't as great as later Allied Fighters. Against the A6M5, the advantage was nil.
The dive speed limitation on the Zero also wasn't because it could not go faster. It was more because the structure was too light to take the aerodynamic forces.

The F4F in either version had no hope of fighting the Zero on even terms. That is why the Thach Weave was invented (and first used at Midway).
With larger numbers in the air, the historical (though not well documented) tactic was to ignore the fellow on your own tail. Concentrate on shooting Zeros off your squadron mates' tails instead.
This works on the premise that the Zero had only enough cannon ammunition (60 rounds per gun) for about 3 good squirts. Once the cannons were done, the Wildcat was pretty resistant to 7.7 mm MG fire especially from the rear.

Bearcat also gave some very good advice on how to actually beat the AI. They do NOT like to use any kind of vertical maneuvers. They only really know how to fly turning fights.

I don't agree with using only the Medium Flight Model though because it takes out way too much of the aerodynamic simulation. If the flight model isn't realistic on Hard, then it should be tuned to work there.

Hope This Helps.
- Ivan.

Okay Ivan, but the original CFS2 F4F4 has a speed 20 miles bellow than the real thing. Dasuto was right in his complain. I tested it in all altitudes and I proved it. My airfile attached put the speed in it's real parameters.

Cheers

Pepe

 

[dasuto247]

I got the following speeds at the following altitudes:

5,000 ft = 254 kts per hour
10,000 ft = 270 kts per hour
15,000 ft = 282 kts per hour
20,000 ft = 282 kts per hour
25,000 ft = 268 kts per hour
30,000 ft = 242 kts per hour
34,000 ft = 204 kts per hour

View attachment 22485

Flew an intercept in November 1942.Betty's at 20,000 feet with Zeros. The new airfile is perfect.Performance is as expected and seems to match.Not a hotrod like F6F or F4U but not so sluggish as the original.I took some hits from bomber gunners and a pesky Zero but managed to dive away then turn into him and he flamed on second pass, sky was empty, had made all way north of Tulagi in the running fight, headed home.Landed safely with 2 kills(one Betty one Zero) and one Betty damaged .Thanks again.

 

[peperez]

Flew an intercept in November 1942.Betty's at 20,000 feet with Zeros. The new airfile is perfect.Performance is as expected and seems to match.Not a hotrod like F6F or F4U but not so sluggish as the original.I took some hits from bomber gunners and a pesky Zero but managed to dive away then turn into him and he flamed on second pass, sky was empty, had made all way north of Tulagi in the running fight, headed home.Landed safely with 2 kills(one Betty one Zero) and one Betty damaged .Thanks again.

Thank you, Dasuto! I'll test all standard planes to check they have the correct speed to upload a big fix. I pretend to limit my effort at the drag parameters.

Cheers

Pepe

PS: After that, may be you can not stay alive after fighting Zeroes, Dasuto...

 

[peperez]

You don't need airwrench. Its a great tool but its not needed. You can add everything to the cfg with notepad.

If you have FSEdit you can load up any CFS2 aircraft and it will create a CFG. Note that not everything is needed.

In the case of the Propeller, paste this into the F4F4 wildcat's cfg.

[propeller]
thrust_scalar = 1.0
propeller_type= 0
propeller_diameter= 10.833
propeller_blades= 3
propeller_moi= 33.370
beta_max= 53.500
beta_min= 18.500
min_gov_rpm= 1800.000
prop_tc= 0.010
gear_reduction_ratio= 1.778
fixed_pitch_beta= 0.000
low_speed_theory_limit= 80.000
prop_sync_available= 0
prop_deice_available= 0
prop_feathering_available= 0
prop_auto_feathering_available= 0
min_rpm_for_feather= 0.000
beta_feather= 0.000
power_absorbed_cf= 0.000
defeathering_accumulators_available= 0
prop_reverse_available= 0
minimum_on_ground_beta= 0.000
minimum_reverse_beta= 0.000

Ignore the green. This AC doesn't need it. The blue will be the same for all modern ACs and doesn't need to be changed. The red can be edited based on historical data.

If you have an Aircraft with no info in the cfg then CFS2 will use the airfile (note that there is some basic info needed). Now if you add this to the cfg, CFS2 will use this info for the Player's aircraft. It will still use the airfile info for the AI.

You can create a balanced Player and AI aircraft in this manor. Though sometimes a dedicated airfile is needed for better AI behavior.

These are FS2002 and FS2004 commands, they didn't work at CFS2.

Cheers

Pepe

 

[bearcat241]

Well, i dunno about you guys, but this data has always worked in my tweaks...

 

[peperez]

I use two tools: Airwrench and AirEd

Airwrench write a lot of FS2002 and FS2009 info at the airfile and aircraft.cfg. I always clean all of them using AirEd. I already try airfiles with the additional info and I didn't found any substantial improvement in the aircraft before suppressing them. I'll give another try, but the true is that standard F4F4 have more drag than the real thing.

Cheers

Pepe

 

[dasuto247]

Thank you, Dasuto! I'll test all standard planes to check they have the correct speed to upload a big fix. I pretend to limit my effort at the drag parameters.

Cheers

Pepe

PS: After that, may be you can not stay alive after fighting Zeroes, Dasuto...

No problem, really enjoyed the improvement in F4F.Still have to use proper tactics to survive but less drag helps.

 

[Roxane-21]

I got the following speeds at the following altitudes:

5,000 ft = 254 kts per hour
10,000 ft = 270 kts per hour
15,000 ft = 282 kts per hour
20,000 ft = 282 kts per hour
25,000 ft = 268 kts per hour
30,000 ft = 242 kts per hour
34,000 ft = 204 kts per hour

View attachment 22485

May we use the same airfile for the F4F-3 as well ?
I don't know if the only difference between the -3 and -4 versions was the 2 additional .50 guns on the -4...

 

[Blood_Hawk23]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F4F_Wildcat

Ther e were a few other minor differances.

Specifications (F4F-3)
General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 28 ft 9 in (8.76 m)
Wingspan: 38 ft (11.58 m)
Height: 11 ft 10 in (3.60 m)
Loaded weight: 7,000 lb (3,200 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × Pratt & Whitney R-1830-76 double-row radial engine, 1,200 hp (900 kW)
Performance
Maximum speed: 331 mph (531 km/h)
Range: 845 mi (1,360 km)
Service ceiling: 39,500 ft (12,000 m)
Rate of climb: 2,303 ft/min (11.7 m/s)
Armament

Guns: 4 × 0.50 in (12.7 mm) AN/M2 Browning machine guns with 450 rounds per gun
Bombs: 2 × 100 lb (45 kg) bombs and/or 2 × 58 gal (220 L) drop tanks
Specifications (F4F-4)
General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 28 ft 9 in (8.8 m)
Wingspan: 38 ft 0 in (11.6 m)
Height: 9 ft 2.5 in (2.8 m)
Wing area: 260 ft² (24.2 m²)
Empty weight: 5,895 lb (2,674 kg)
Loaded weight: 7,975 lb (3,617 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 8,762 lb (3,974 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × Pratt & Whitney R-1830-86 double-row radial engine, 1,200 hp (900 kW)
Performance
Maximum speed: 320 mph (290 kn, 515 km/h)
Range: 830 mi (721 nmi, 1,337 km)
Service ceiling: 34,000 ft (10,363 m)
Rate of climb: 2,200 ft/min @ normal power (11.17 m/s)
Wing loading: 30.7 lb/ft² (149.77 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 249 w/kg (0.15 hp/lb)
Armament

Guns: 6 × 0.50 in (12.7 mm) AN/M2 Browning machine guns,

 

[peperez]

The F4F-3 had better performance than the F4F-4. It was lighter!

Cheers

Pepe

 

[dasuto247]

The F4F-3 had better performance than the F4F-4. It was lighter!

Cheers

Pepe

Any chance of a -3 airfile? B24 guy's F4F3