Upgrade pack for William Dickens' Piaggio P.108 bomber

[kelticheart]

William Dickens' Piaggio P.108 bomber upgrade pack.zip

A new entry has been added to Add-Ons Library, category CFS 2 Aircraft - Italian

Description: Upgrade pack for William Dickens', a.k.a. Bismarck13, Piaggio P.108 Regia Aeronautica 4-engined bomber.

By kelticheart and Dvslats.

Corrected Flight Model and Damage Profile. Equipped with Blood_Hawk23/MVG3d's Italian weapon pack. Corrected skin texturing issues.

Alternative full disc + single blade, broken disc prop textures and a Green Ghost-style DAP gauge-controlled exhaust effect.

Enjoy!

N.W.: This pack contains upgraded files only. For the full aircraft download William Dickens' Piaggio P.108 uploads here at SOH:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=150&id=13950

and here:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=150&id=13948

To check it out, rate it or add comments, visit William Dickens' Piaggio P.108 bomber upgrade pack.zip
The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.

 

[gius]

Stefano,
great addition, i'm planning to pack a set of textures and other mods too...
Cheers,
Gius

 

[gaucho_59]

Just in case you are interested Giuseppe...



Comments, suggestions, etc. welcome.... available as usual... with yoke and throttle box as pop up bmps

Cheers,
G.

 

[gius]

Great rework, Carlos!
can you post me your files including the popups??
Cheers,
Giuseppe

 

[gaucho_59]

Sure... no problem

Great rework, Carlos!
can you post me your files including the popups??
Cheers,
Giuseppe

Make sure your email accepts them... last time it would not... said it was too full..
Carlos

 

[kelticheart]

Hi everybody!

last Friday I uploaded an upgrade pack for William Dickens', a.k.a. Bismarck13, Piaggio P.108 Regia Aeronautica 4-engined bomber. I was in a hurry and had no time to write an announcement.

It's a cooperation with Dave Slaski, or Dvslats, which produced a much improved Flight Model/Damage Profile than the original, where scrape points were set totally off, C.o.G. and weight distribution causing all kinds of troubles. The plane had a bad nose up flight attitude and a tendency to roll over to one side and explode while taxiing around the airport. All problems cured by Dave, while I succeeded in correcting the flight attitude to a nice, level one at optimal cruise speed.

This pack includes corrected original repaints, addressing the issue of untextured ventral areas on the engine nacelles and aircraft tail. I added painted exhaust stubs, as seen on the below attached scale model picture I found on the Net, to support my Green Ghost-style DAP gauge-controlled exh effect for the P.108A and P.108B versions.

The P.108B night bomber version had flame dampeners, one per each engine and placed on the ventral outer side of the cowls, similar to those seen on RAF night bombers and night fighters equipped with radial engines (Halifax and Beaufighter). They are not modelled in this version, so I preferred adding only a smoke trail effect for this model.

I adapted the enclosed Alphasim's Mavis 2d panel bitmap to make it look more like the real thing, according to a WWII cockpit picture of the P.108, and replaced 99% of German stock gauges with Italian historical gauge reproductions in both 2d and VC panels. What I could not replace comes from the fact I could not develop a 4-engine version of what's available, like oil temp gauges and fuel/oil pressure gauges. I replaced manifold pressure and tachometer bitmaps in MAPE's Luftwaffe 4-engine gauge pack and left untouched what I did not have or does not work in such a way as an Italian gauge would have.

Since last Friday I found a different bitmap for the manifold pressure gauges and corrected it in a new derivative of MAPE's Luftwaffe 4 engine gauge pack. The one I had used is more proper on a fighter plane with higher manifold pressures up to 2kg/cm[SUP]2[/SUP], (kg/cm[SUP]2 [/SUP]= metric pressure unit of measurement, roughly 2.2lbs over 0.155 inch[SUP]2[/SUP]). This bitmap, from Pcmeneg's unbelievable vast production of Italian WWII gauge bitmaps for FS9, is scaled only up to 1.6kg/cm[SUP]2[/SUP], more proper for displaying lower manifold pressures, enclosed in Mario Misson's, a.k.a. Misson, conversion of MVG3d's Cant Z506 pack.
I will upload this new gauge pack in a couple of days.

You will find a new Italian ADF homing gauge I developed by coupling Ground Crew's FSD Luftwaffe ADF homing gauge with Pcmeneg's Radiogoniometro (ADF homing) bitmap, again from MVG14 Cant Z506 pack. Late war Italian aircraft were equipped with a homing gauge which was a photocopy of the German counterpart. I suspect it was a licensed production of German technology.

Stock Japanese payloads were replaced with with John Fortin, a.k.a. Blood_Hawk23,/MVG3d's Italian bomb pack. As usual, alternative full disc and single blade prop textures are included.

Now all we need is night bombing missions over Gilbratar!

Hoping you will enjoy it,

Cheers!
KH

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Stefano,

You did an outstanding job with this, thank you so much!

 

[kelticheart]

Great rework, Carlos!
can you post me your files including the popups??
Cheers,
Giuseppe

Giuseppe,

I agree that is a magnificent work of art indeed, yet I am sorry I have to be the usual pain in the rear-end.....

Astonishing as it is, unfortunately, it has nothing to do with the real P.108 instrument panel. That is again a splendid version of Alphasim's freeware Kawanishi H6K5 'Mavis', IJNAF flying boat 2d panel.

I used it because it has a close resemblance to the P.108 cockpit, yet several details are not the same as shown in the attached pictures below, the very same I found entering in Google Pictures 'Piaggio P108 cockpit'. These WWII cockpit pictures inspired my 'P.108-like' gauge layout.

Several details from the Alphasim's 2d panel, that I cleared out to make it look more like the real thing, reappear in Carlos' bitmap, including the small compass nestled in the center of the cockpit framework, which no Regia Aeronautica bomber ever had. I left it there only because I was not able to overpaint it without screwing up the entire bitmap, but it should not be there.

Besides, 'A' stands for 'Acqua' or water in Italian: what's the purpose of four coolant temp gauges in an aircraft equipped with four radial, air-cooled engines?
Two different ASI's, one of which German. The oil temp gauges could be acceptable, but #1-2 engines for the pilot and #3-4 engines for the co-pilot?
The Sperry-like autopilot gauges in the centre are fictional, together with that strange three lever group shown in the second picture. What are those, throttles? If yes, the P.108 had four engines, not three, in fact it was dubbed the 'Italian Flying Fortress', since chief designer Engineer Giovanni Casiraghi had worked in the United States aircraft industry from 1927 to 1936, before joining Piaggio.

Mr. Casiraghi was evidently heavily influenced by his American experience, since he conceived an aircraft radically different than the rest of Italian aviation industry beliefs of the time. Four engines, all metal, low cantilever wing vs. three-engine, metal tubing/wood/fabric construction. Quite a revolutionary concept, which took time to win approval from the Regia Aeronautica top brass. It caused low production outputs and all the delays plaguing the transition from mid-1930 design concepts to modern, state-of-the-art airplanes.

I beg forgiveness for my comments, no offence or destructive criticism meant.

Cheers!
KH

P.S.: The Italian caption under the first picture says: "The definitive pilot's instrument panel (P.108 B 2nd series). Note the lower cutouts, created to improve pilots' visibility through the nose of the aircraft."

 

[peperez]

Great improvements, but I need to make a remark

I'm the original airfile and DP maker and, in general, I like all mods you made but the artigliere version needs a mod: you retired the biggest trump of the plane, the 102 mm chin gun and substitute it by a anemic Breda-Safat 12.7 mm machine gun. You take out the raison d'être of the antiship proposal. I think you must upload a fix.

At the position #5 your DP says:

; Chin Gun
gunstation.5=0,51,1,0.08,839,2,1,1000,1,40,1d1*14,0,-1.2,-4.4,0,0,0,-75,75,80,-45,1.6

[guns.5]
gun.0=1000,0,2.02,10.48,0,0,1,1000


It must be:
; Chin Gun
gunstation.5=1,51,2,2.5,839,1,0,300,7,100,1d1*300,0,-1.2,-4.4,0,0,0,-75,75,80,-45,1.6

[guns.5]
gun.0=50,0,0.56,10.65,0,0,1,50

Keep the good work

Pepe

 

[gius]

Giuseppe,

I agree that is a magnificent work of art indeed, yet I am sorry I have to be the usual pain in the rear-end.....

Astonishing as it is, unfortunately, it has nothing to do with the real P.108 instrument panel. That is again a splendid version of Alphasim's freeware Kawanishi H6K5 'Mavis', IJNAF flying boat 2d panel.

I used it because it has a close resemblance to the P.108 cockpit, yet several details are not the same as shown in the attached pictures below, the very same I found entering in Google Pictures 'Piaggio P108 cockpit'. These WWII cockpit pictures inspired my 'P.108-like' gauge layout.

Several details from the Alphasim's 2d panel, that I cleared out to make it look more like the real thing, reappear in Carlos' bitmap, including the small compass nestled in the center of the cockpit framework, which no Regia Aeronautica bomber ever had. I left it there only because I was not able to overpaint it without screwing up the entire bitmap, but it should not be there.

Besides, 'A' stands for 'Acqua' or water in Italian: what's the purpose of four coolant temp gauges in an aircraft equipped with four radial, air-cooled engines?
Two different ASI's, one of which German. The oil temp gauges could be acceptable, but #1-2 engines for the pilot and #3-4 engines for the co-pilot?
The Sperry-like autopilot gauges in the centre are fictional, together with that strange three lever group shown in the second picture. What are those, throttles? If yes, the P.108 had four engines, not three, in fact it was dubbed the 'Italian Flying Fortress', since chief designer Engineer Giovanni Casiraghi had worked in the United States aircraft industry from 1927 to 1936, before joining Piaggio.

Mr. Casiraghi was evidently heavily influenced by his American experience, since he conceived an aircraft radically different than the rest of Italian aviation industry beliefs of the time. Four engines, all metal, low cantilever wing vs. three-engine, metal tubing/wood/fabric construction. Quite a revolutionary concept, which took time to win approval from the Regia Aeronautica top brass. It caused low production outputs and all the delays plaguing the transition from mid-1930 design concepts to modern, state-of-the-art airplanes.

I beg forgiveness for my comments, no offence or destructive criticism meant.

Cheers!
KH

P.S.: The Italian caption under the first picture says: "The definitive pilot's instrument panel (P.108 B 2nd series). Note the lower cutouts, created to improve pilots' visibility through the nose of the aircraft."

Yes Stefano,
i know the concerned panel is from the Mavis, but it's also the only available panel which is resemblant to the original cockpit of the italian bomber, perhaps i could do something...
Best Regards,
Giuseppe

 

[peperez]

Yes Stefano,
i know the concerned panel is from the Mavis, but it's also the only available panel which is resemblant to the original cockpit of the italian bomber, perhaps i could do something...
Best Regards,
Giuseppe

I was thinking in a mix: Mavis panel with Lancaster transparencies. Could be very near the original plane.

Cheers

Pepe

 

[gaucho_59]

Some clarification

Great info... Thanks a lot Manuele Villa... so I corrected myself...
The redo I did was based on a photo - which is in my thread on FS2004 -I didn't know I was doing the panel for the cargo version...
However, it is FAR more accurate than the one included with the model... which is just an Alphasim Mavis panel...
At any rate... the dummy bezels can be substituted by the proper bezels... they are there just to indicate the positions... but
I think this new version has the right instruments...this new one is the bomber version... and is based on the photos kindly made available by Manuele...

It is not so easy to come out with an exact replica... but I think it is fairly close to it...

Stefano, for someone who is such a stickler for detail minutiae... I would think you could have used a better panel...
Really... people who live in glass houses should not throw stones too liberally...
You seem to always come out with blunt criticisms... and then try to soothe things with the usual "it was not my intention to... etc. etc."
when indeed your intentions seem quite clear... lol
After one makes quite an effort to do something... it is not a very good feeling to be harshly criticized...
I say... unless one can come out with something better.... it does not show great form to criticize everything somebody else does...
I also say... if you were to bring forth your great acumen and combine it with someone's ability to paint...(like me) great things could be done...
to benefit all... instead of creating friction... just a thought... and my intention is clear...

Carlos
[/QUOTE]

 

[kelticheart]

Great info... Thanks a lot Manuele Villa... so I corrected myself...
The redo I did was based on a photo - which is in my thread on FS2004 -I didn't know I was doing the panel for the cargo version...
However, it is FAR more accurate than the one included with the model... which is just an Alphasim Mavis panel...
At any rate... the dummy bezels can be substituted by the proper bezels... they are there just to indicate the positions... but
I think this new version has the right instruments...this new one is the bomber version... and is based on the photos kindly made available by Manuele...

It is not so easy to come out with an exact replica... but I think it is fairly close to it...

Stefano, for someone who is such a stickler for detail minutiae... I would think you could have used a better panel...
Really... people who live in glass houses should not throw stones too liberally...
You seem to always come out with blunt criticisms... and then try to soothe things with the usual "it was not my intention to... etc. etc."
when indeed your intentions seem quite clear... lol
After one makes quite an effort to do something... it is not a very good feeling to be harshly criticized...
I say... unless one can come out with something better.... it does not show great form to criticize everything somebody else does...
I also say... if you were to bring forth your great acumen and combine it with someone's ability to paint...(like me) great things could be done...
to benefit all... instead of creating friction... just a thought... and my intention is clear...

Carlos

Very nice improvement, Carlos.

Apart from, again, the small compass case in the middle of the central windshield vertical frame bar, which should not be there and the fictional Hurricane-like fuel switch.

The only two P.108 cockpit pictures I could find on the net, do not show where the altimeter is located. It's impossible there was none on the P.108 panel, so I placed it to the left of the artificial horizon.
A missing artificial horizon (attitude gauge) was more common on Italian WWII aircraft panels, particularly fighters, than a missing altimeter.

Cheers!
KH

 

[gaucho_59]

Here is the final version...

After Manuele's valuable suggestions, here it is...
Available as usual...

G.

 

[peperez]

Piaggio P108A Artigliere REAL FIREPOWER

With real firepower value you can do this with 30 well located 102 mm rounds:

 

[kelticheart]

After Manuele's valuable suggestions, here it is...Available as usual...G.

Now I know where the altimeter should be. Coming soon....

Cheers!
KH

 

[peperez]

Checking the original P.108A aircraft...

...I found William Dickens uploaded a temporary DP file. The Piaggio P.108A didn't use bombs. The offensive weapon was a powerful 102 mm cannon able to destroy an escort ship with five well located rounds. I calculate the DP effect to be similar to one 100 kg bomb applying kinetics more explosive forces. I'm uploading a fix using the upgrade pack airfile and dp modified by Kelticheart and DVSlatsto get the real feeling of a flying cannon. Some regards:

1. No bomb bay and no bomb load;
2. No bomber position at the panel;
3. Fifty rounds with manual load (you fire one round each time you press the cannon trigger).

Cheers

Pepe

 

[Oglivie]

Thanks, Kelti!

I have the P.108B by Dickens in my MTO so these enhancement will be nice to have with the plane.


Pepe,

The P.108A will be a nice addition with the heavy cannon DP and Air. Thanks!

 

[kelticheart]

...I found William Dickens uploaded a temporary DP file. The Piaggio P.108A didn't use bombs. The offensive weapon was a powerful 102 mm cannon able to destroy an escort ship with five well located rounds. I calculate the DP effect to be similar to one 100 kg bomb applying kinetics more explosive forces. I'm uploading a fix using the upgrade pack airfile and dp modified by Kelticheart and DVSlatsto get the real feeling of a flying cannon. Some regards:

1. No bomb bay and no bomb load;
2. No bomber position at the panel;
3. Fifty rounds with manual load (you fire one round each time you press the cannon trigger).

Cheers

Pepe

Thanks, Pepe!

Nice addition!

Cheers!
KH

 

[peperez]

Just a picture...

I hope you enjoy it!