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The Staff of SOH
Memphis Belle to fly again
- Thread starter bazzar
- Start date
Nope, I just did the same thing, lol.
Here's a couple pics I shot in 1981, near the National Guard base at the airport in Memphis. I was in Millington, TN attending navy "A School". I was wandering around the airport, as airplane geeks do, and found this. I remember thinking, "surely, this isn't THE Memphis Belle...(?)"
bazzar
Charter Member 2018
Interesting shots. Not sure of the identity though. The original Belle being a B17f-10-BO had a much flatter profile mid upper turret and twin 30 cal machine gun ports molded into the perspex nose. It might have been modified over the years of course but the aircraft in your shots looks like an E model.
Dumonceau
Banned
Nothing wrong with that! But, for sanity's sake we should start "FSaholics Anonymous".
"Hello, my name is Johan, and I can't stop flying aircraft simulations"...
Johan
Certainly possible. But the presence of that plane there at that time matches the Wikipedia history of the real Memphis Belle. And so does the sad condition... It looks like an F to me. I didn't know the Memphis Belle had the old E style top turret. But this plane does have the pointy node glass associated with the F. Here's an "E" nose.
Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
The first couple photos you posted Paul are of indeed the "Memphis Belle". In your photos, Paul, at the time, it was fitted with a later variant top turret and a G-variant plexiglas nose cone - this was just an effort to try and make the aircraft "whole" again. The airplane did not fair well in the decades immediately following WWII, and by the 80's, through looting and what not, the interior was essentially gutted. A tremendous amount of work has been involved through the USAF Museum's restoration of the aircraft, to track down, acquire, restore, build, and fit replacements for all of the long-since missing parts and have the aircraft fully complete throughout and be 100% accurate to the original factory specifications and combat configuration it had.
In your last photo, Paul, that is a highly-modified (non standard) E-type plexiglas nose cone. There were a number of different field mods done to put guns facing forward through the nose cone, as head-on attacks became a huge problem for the bomber crews, both in Europe and the South Pacific.
In your last photo, Paul, that is a highly-modified (non standard) E-type plexiglas nose cone. There were a number of different field mods done to put guns facing forward through the nose cone, as head-on attacks became a huge problem for the bomber crews, both in Europe and the South Pacific.
Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
Here's another photo showing just how sad a state the "Memphis Belle" had reached by 1980, a year prior to the photos Paul took. In this photo, the turrets are gone, and the original F-type plexiglas nose cone is still in-place, but painted over.
http://www.airteamimages.com/boeing...85_usa---us-army-air-forces_147157_large.html
And photos showing how gutted the interior was by that point: http://aircraftwalkaround.hobbyvista.com/b-17_mbelle/b-17_mbelle.htm
According to records, during its combat service the "Memphis Belle" had 9 engine replacements, both wings replaced, two tail replacements (thinking horizontals), and both main landing gear replaced.
http://www.airteamimages.com/boeing...85_usa---us-army-air-forces_147157_large.html
And photos showing how gutted the interior was by that point: http://aircraftwalkaround.hobbyvista.com/b-17_mbelle/b-17_mbelle.htm
According to records, during its combat service the "Memphis Belle" had 9 engine replacements, both wings replaced, two tail replacements (thinking horizontals), and both main landing gear replaced.
Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
Here's some information about the original in-service and war bond tour/documentary "Memphis Belle" crew, not widely known about:
Jim Verinis, who is always noted as the Memphis Belle co-pilot/war bond crew member, flew the first five missions in the Belle as co-pilot, flew one mission in the Belle as command pilot, rotated into commanding his own B-17F, and then came back as co-pilot on the Morgan crew's 25th mission. Verinis was actually a qualified fighter pilot, but while on leave following an accident, found out about the need for bomber crews and transferred. He trained with the Morgan crew while in the States, but was supposed to get his own aircraft, but they didn't have enough planes, so he went with the Morgan crew as co-pilot. Once over in England, he only flew a few missions as co-pilot on the Memphis Belle, where then the majority of the 25 missions he flew were as the command pilot of his own B-17 (which is briefly mentioned in the wartime documentary as well). Verinis' B-17F was named "Connecticut Yankee".
Tony Nastal, who was noted in the documentary and war bond tour as the Memphis Belle's right waist gunner, only actually flew one mission on the "Memphis Belle", but he qualified for the documentary/war bond tour crew as he had already completed 24 previous missions. Scott Miller, who flew 15 missions on the 'Belle as right waist gunner, didn't qualify for the documentary/war bond tour crew as he didn't have enough missions flown, and thus Tony Nastal was put in that spot. Nastal returned to England following the war bond tour and completed 60 combat missions in all.
Harold Loch, the Memphis Belle's documentary and war bond tour top turret gunner/flight engineer, was the third to serve in that position amongst the Memphis Belle crew. Levi Dillon was the Belle's first top turret gunner, who did 4 missions in the aircraft, and Eugene Adkins was the Belle's second top turret gunner, who did 6 missions in the aircraft.
Of course many should already know that Robert Morgan, the pilot of the "Memphis Belle", went onto be a B-29 pilot and commander of the 869th BS in the Pacific, and led the very first B-29 raid over Tokyo with his personal B-29 "Dauntless Dottie". His bombardier was Vince Evans, his same bombardier while in England flying the "Memphis Belle". Both completed their second tours together, flying an additional 25 missions in the B-29.
Jim Verinis, who is always noted as the Memphis Belle co-pilot/war bond crew member, flew the first five missions in the Belle as co-pilot, flew one mission in the Belle as command pilot, rotated into commanding his own B-17F, and then came back as co-pilot on the Morgan crew's 25th mission. Verinis was actually a qualified fighter pilot, but while on leave following an accident, found out about the need for bomber crews and transferred. He trained with the Morgan crew while in the States, but was supposed to get his own aircraft, but they didn't have enough planes, so he went with the Morgan crew as co-pilot. Once over in England, he only flew a few missions as co-pilot on the Memphis Belle, where then the majority of the 25 missions he flew were as the command pilot of his own B-17 (which is briefly mentioned in the wartime documentary as well). Verinis' B-17F was named "Connecticut Yankee".
Tony Nastal, who was noted in the documentary and war bond tour as the Memphis Belle's right waist gunner, only actually flew one mission on the "Memphis Belle", but he qualified for the documentary/war bond tour crew as he had already completed 24 previous missions. Scott Miller, who flew 15 missions on the 'Belle as right waist gunner, didn't qualify for the documentary/war bond tour crew as he didn't have enough missions flown, and thus Tony Nastal was put in that spot. Nastal returned to England following the war bond tour and completed 60 combat missions in all.
Harold Loch, the Memphis Belle's documentary and war bond tour top turret gunner/flight engineer, was the third to serve in that position amongst the Memphis Belle crew. Levi Dillon was the Belle's first top turret gunner, who did 4 missions in the aircraft, and Eugene Adkins was the Belle's second top turret gunner, who did 6 missions in the aircraft.
Of course many should already know that Robert Morgan, the pilot of the "Memphis Belle", went onto be a B-29 pilot and commander of the 869th BS in the Pacific, and led the very first B-29 raid over Tokyo with his personal B-29 "Dauntless Dottie". His bombardier was Vince Evans, his same bombardier while in England flying the "Memphis Belle". Both completed their second tours together, flying an additional 25 missions in the B-29.
Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
Also not too well known about until recent years:
- The B-24 "Hot Stuff" flew its 25th mission on February 7, 1943.
- The B-17F "Hell's Angels" flew its 25th mission on May 13, 1943.
- The B-17F "Delta Rebel 2" flew its 25th mission on May 15, 1943.
- The B-17F "Memphis Belle" flew its 25th mission on May 17, 1943 (some reports claim May 19).
The "Memphis Belle" got all the recognition it did, because it was the first to complete 25 missions and return back home to the US. The B-24 "Hot Stuff" was on its journey home, following its 25th mission in early 1943, when it crashed and was destroyed while on a flight over Iceland. At the time, it was being flown by the aircraft's normal pilot as well as Lt. Gen. Frank Andrews, the then commander of all US forces in Europe, an accomplished pilot himself, sitting in as co-pilot. It is believed that Andrews was likely commanding the aircraft during the flight, due to his rank, when it got caught in terrible weather conditions. Gen. Andrews and all the crew aboard perished (many of whom were Andrews' personal staff, rather than the aircraft's original combat crew). Following the incident, which quickly got "brushed under the rug", Gen. Eisenhower took over from Andrews and then of course became the supreme allied commander in Europe. The B-17 "Hell's Angels" remained in England until completing 48 missions (various crews), before finally returning home to the US for a war bond tour in January 1944. A unique tidbit about the "Delta Rebel 2", is that Clark Gable flew a few missions on that aircraft, which was also part of the 91st BG like the "Memphis Belle", while filming was being done for the documentary "Combat America".
Furthermore, it should be added that the B-17F "Knock Out Dropper" of the 303rd BG (same as "Hell's Angels") was the first to complete both 50 missions and 100 missions in Europe.
- The B-24 "Hot Stuff" flew its 25th mission on February 7, 1943.
- The B-17F "Hell's Angels" flew its 25th mission on May 13, 1943.
- The B-17F "Delta Rebel 2" flew its 25th mission on May 15, 1943.
- The B-17F "Memphis Belle" flew its 25th mission on May 17, 1943 (some reports claim May 19).
The "Memphis Belle" got all the recognition it did, because it was the first to complete 25 missions and return back home to the US. The B-24 "Hot Stuff" was on its journey home, following its 25th mission in early 1943, when it crashed and was destroyed while on a flight over Iceland. At the time, it was being flown by the aircraft's normal pilot as well as Lt. Gen. Frank Andrews, the then commander of all US forces in Europe, an accomplished pilot himself, sitting in as co-pilot. It is believed that Andrews was likely commanding the aircraft during the flight, due to his rank, when it got caught in terrible weather conditions. Gen. Andrews and all the crew aboard perished (many of whom were Andrews' personal staff, rather than the aircraft's original combat crew). Following the incident, which quickly got "brushed under the rug", Gen. Eisenhower took over from Andrews and then of course became the supreme allied commander in Europe. The B-17 "Hell's Angels" remained in England until completing 48 missions (various crews), before finally returning home to the US for a war bond tour in January 1944. A unique tidbit about the "Delta Rebel 2", is that Clark Gable flew a few missions on that aircraft, which was also part of the 91st BG like the "Memphis Belle", while filming was being done for the documentary "Combat America".
Furthermore, it should be added that the B-17F "Knock Out Dropper" of the 303rd BG (same as "Hell's Angels") was the first to complete both 50 missions and 100 missions in Europe.
gray eagle
SOH-CM-2025
The Past Present and Future of the Memphis Belle
I can add some commentary to the Memphis Belle when it was located at Memphis and then sent to then NAS Millington for restoration. I saw it when it was in pieces and repairs were being made to it
in the hopes of a complete restoration and then to be placed in a specially built building in Memphis; That was not to happen and was subsequently sent to Wright Pat AFB.
When I took a tour of the Belle, one of the tour guides showed me a old fashioned photo flash bulb in the cockpit area. I was told that when it completed it's 25th mission, the press went aboard
her back then and took photos leaving this flash bulb behind. I also saw a few bullet hole in the fuselage area.
It was a sad day to see it packed up and hauled off for WPAFB, but at least it was to have her restored to a better condition.
Article I found describes the past, present and future of the MB.
http://www.memphismagazine.com/November-2013/The-Past-Present-and-Future-of-the-Memphis-Belle/
I can add some commentary to the Memphis Belle when it was located at Memphis and then sent to then NAS Millington for restoration. I saw it when it was in pieces and repairs were being made to it
in the hopes of a complete restoration and then to be placed in a specially built building in Memphis; That was not to happen and was subsequently sent to Wright Pat AFB.
When I took a tour of the Belle, one of the tour guides showed me a old fashioned photo flash bulb in the cockpit area. I was told that when it completed it's 25th mission, the press went aboard
her back then and took photos leaving this flash bulb behind. I also saw a few bullet hole in the fuselage area.
It was a sad day to see it packed up and hauled off for WPAFB, but at least it was to have her restored to a better condition.
Article I found describes the past, present and future of the MB.
http://www.memphismagazine.com/November-2013/The-Past-Present-and-Future-of-the-Memphis-Belle/
Sundog
SOH-CM-2025
Ed Walters had every turret working in the FSX version of the Plane Design Lancaster right after FSX was released. We were hoping to be able to add the ability to shoot from them, but real life intervened and it's been on hold ever since. It was a real nice upgrade with systems that worked as on the actual Lanc including the H2S and the Nav system (forgot the name of it that used the two radio signals for triangulating position), etc. My point being that I haven't any doubt VRS would be able to code turrets that fire their guns.
Awe sadden to hear no TP. 2 weeks can't come soon enough. Can't wait. From your screenshots it looks amazing. Looks like some have a different plexiglass nose. If so great job on that little detail.
in the meantime I'll be digging through some archives getting the F models that flew in the 91st to compliment the Belle.
in the meantime I'll be digging through some archives getting the F models that flew in the 91st to compliment the Belle.
bazzar
Charter Member 2018
Yes, we have modelled the F-10 and F-20 series. The 10 had twin 30 cals mounted in the plexiglass nose which was recessed to take the swivel mountings. The 20 had a single 30 mounted in the plexiglass nose but centrally with a recessed flexible mount and gaiter. Also, you'll note that the 20 series had the first of the astrodomes on the top of the nose section. Many Fs were modified in the field to suit the crews own preferences. It is quite difficult to find accurate schemes for a particular model like this. Memphis Belle for example has coloured wheel discs fitted, red one side, blue the other. Other 10s had no wheel discs. I know of at least one 10 that had a single machine gun mounted in the nose, controlled by the pilot for shooting at shipping and ground targets. If you tried to replicate all the 10s and 20s you'd end up with dozens of models!
Here's some targets I have been working on in anticipation of the release of this bird. I'm working on a lot more so we can recreate all the missions and bombing runs. Here's the U-Boat bunkers at La Rochelle, St-Nazaire and Lorient. I've converted these freeware models for use in FSX after modifying them in 3DS to be FPS friendly.
