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Piper Aztec Steams ahead

I don't own SE, I'm not even sure that I won't someday own it either, in some form...but I honestly do not like the DLC thing. It's a complete waste of my $$ in my opinion. I learned the hard way with Direct2Drive. I "purchased" 2 full games through them....now no longer in business and my downloads are worthless as there is no way to activate them since the web authentication system no longer exists...and THIS is the rub. If Dovetail or whoever becomes the new owners....you'll be completely out of luck down the road. I'm a much more by the book simmer and consider myself more hard core than casual...and I've spent far too much money in FS to lose it to these ridiculous DLC's...I despise the premise, which essentially is this, they take your money, give you a feel good about owning something, but you don't...then something goes wrong and *poof* you magically no longer own anything. No thanks. I too prefer the "old way" where I own the physical installer not requiring a third party....although VRS stands alone in this regard....too bad too...but others I simply won't do. I'd like to be able to install my software on a computer in a cabin with NO internet and still be able to fly. This isn't an AH issue for me, it's way beyond one developer, who BTW IMHO is getting the brunt end of criticisms which I think have more to do with this issue than their particular airplane. I find their products and service fantastic and wish them well in every endeavor. I think this issue has simply caught the spark of the overall community sentiment in general (obviously). IF the DLC gives you the options to have copy the installer to a disk for backup without the need to authentical via internet later, than great...I may change my mind...but not likely. ..sigh... ok...that's all...(steps down from beaten horse) :santahat:
 
I think you have an excellent understanding of the issue Rick and thanks for the support. Criticism we can take, we're old and ugly enough to deal with that. What I object to greatly is the abuse and downright rudeness from some people, which is just unnecessary. Especially when you consider the actual dollars involved. It's a hardly a third world problem is it?

We like all businesses like to try different things to see where the future may lie. To not do so is in my opinion, commercial suicide. Of course we understand there will be backlash against our decision, we prepared for that. Do people really think we would be that stupid not to?

Anyway, constructive criticism always welcome, abusive emails (yes there have been emails like that from people here - you know who you are) not welcome and will not be tolerated. Childish, immature and stupid behaviour.
 
000rick000 said:
I don't own SE, I'm not even sure that I won't someday own it either, in some form...but I honestly do not like the DLC thing. It's a complete waste of my $$ in my opinion. I learned the hard way with Direct2Drive. I "purchased" 2 full games through them....now no longer in business and my downloads are worthless as there is no way to activate them since the web authentication system no longer exists...and THIS is the rub. If Dovetail or whoever becomes the new owners....you'll be completely out of luck down the road. I'm a much more by the book simmer and consider myself more hard core than casual...and I've spent far too much money in FS to lose it to these ridiculous DLC's...I despise the premise, which essentially is this, they take your money, give you a feel good about owning something, but you don't...then something goes wrong and *poof* you magically no longer own anything. No thanks. I too prefer the "old way" where I own the physical installer not requiring a third party....although VRS stands alone in this regard....too bad too...but others I simply won't do. I'd like to be able to install my software on a computer in a cabin with NO internet and still be able to fly. This isn't an AH issue for me, it's way beyond one developer, who BTW IMHO is getting the brunt end of criticisms which I think have more to do with this issue than their particular airplane. I find their products and service fantastic and wish them well in every endeavor. I think this issue has simply caught the spark of the overall community sentiment in general (obviously). IF the DLC gives you the options to have copy the installer to a disk for backup without the need to authentical via internet later, than great...I may change my mind...but not likely. ..sigh... ok...that's all...(steps down from beaten horse) :santahat:
Click to expand...

If it was a platform other than steam, perhaps.

Steam is as big as PC gaming now, and unlikely to go anywhere.

Even if Dovetail were to go away, anything you owned through steam, would remain on steam. Steam games exist even with defunct developers. They remain supported.

The platform is possibly the best one for it.

Is it the easiest way to deliver FS content? God yes. It takes all the stress out of the users hands, which solves 80% of support issues, it also makes patch delivery stupidly easy for DLC/addons and the base game.

Flight simmers do seem somewhat reluctant to trust steam, but believe me, the game community at large got over that about 10 years ago.

I own SE, I just don't use it with owning P3D. Which has a similar online delivery of patches, and the rest doesn't bother me.

Digital download, delivery, and support is the future.
 
Ive kinda been following this and I have to say as a business owner you sometimes have to do and "try" new things and its impossible to keep everyone happy. I think its kind of a good sign in some respect with the criticism as that shows alot of people like your product. I totally understand trying a new direction and planning for the future for your business, we need to keep all the developers we can. I have FSX, FSX Steam and now just picked up P3D and from what Ive seen the same files I put in FSX I can put in Steam and they ones from Steam can go into FSX :adoration: Best of luck and I hope it works out.
 
I am unhappy simply because I wanted this one and will not go to Steam. If it would have been - let's say C172 - from another vendor, I didn't care a damn.
 
and right there, my friends, is the real issue. If this had been say, a Fairey Barracuda, I doubt whether many people would have given a damn.
If you really want to drive an Aztec in Prepar3D then I am sure Alabeo's will float your boat.:engel016:
 
I think a Barracuda would have been a huge hit to to be fair...

Thing is, a lot of customers prefer you guys to alabeo.

We don't 'want' Alabeos if you're doing one... that's actually a huge compliment to you guys. Given the choice... we'd prefer your product.

As has been said many times, we understand the business decision, heck, I've been privy to a similar situation recently too, only it was never announced first, hype built, THEN announced as steam only.

It was quiet, came out as steam, zero fuss made.

I think people saw this coming, were excited and happy, then had it taken away. That I think is the real issue.

As for people running P3d... I'm going to install SE just to download yours then move it to P3D. Because rather than alabeo.
 
Though disappointing, I cannot question why the AH team has made this decision. The model looks fabulous, and I'm sure I'll pick it up regardless. However, I am curious as to the financial benefit of said decision. From a developers standpoint. Maybe you could shed some light baz?

- Joseph
 
Firekitten said:
I think a Barracuda would have been a huge hit to to be fair...

Thing is, a lot of customers prefer you guys to alabeo.

We don't 'want' Alabeos if you're doing one... that's actually a huge compliment to you guys. Given the choice... we'd prefer your product.

As has been said many times, we understand the business decision, heck, I've been privy to a similar situation recently too, only it was never announced first, hype built, THEN announced as steam only.

It was quiet, came out as steam, zero fuss made.

I think people saw this coming, were excited and happy, then had it taken away. That I think is the real issue.

As for people running P3d... I'm going to install SE just to download yours then move it to P3D. Because rather than alabeo.
Click to expand...

Well I don't dislike Alabeo, quite the opposite. I don't think any developer deserves to be bashed on this forum.
 
thefrog said:
Well I don't dislike Alabeo, quite the opposite. I don't think any developer deserves to be bashed on this forum.
Click to expand...

How true indeed!
Nor should a developer's decision regarding how they decide to market their products be subject to carping criticism.
There appears to be an unhealthy trend toward 'Elitism' within the Flight Sim community, be it certain developers or simmers.
Unless a subject is released which requires the operator to spend 30 or more minutes to go through a pre-flight check it is regarded by the 'Elite' as unworthy.
Total immersion is demanded.
On the other hand, less demanding users are happy to kick the tyres and light the fires, for which less complex aircraft are a simple pleasure.
We all have a choice, so bear that in mind when criticizing a developer who turns out a product which is not to your taste, be it complex or straight forward.
It costs nothing to be polite.

'CHOICE'........What a great privilege!
:triumphant:

Fairey Barracuda????
Fugly.
 
If Bernt Stolle is doing the Alabeo then it is going to be top notch. He is the best in the business for my money.
(not saying others are bad)
 
Bazzar said his reasons would become clear in time. Perhaps all those steaming about this should look at the Newshawks forum: I think some explanation will be found there.
 
Bazz, looking over your product line i gather this is your first SE release, its always good to test the water but youre often able to find out how's the swimming by asking others who took a dip in that pond, i really gotta wonder if you did.

Best CJ
 
Baz,

Good for you. As functioning member of that new fangled Facebookie thing, I will tell you there is a whole new market out there for FSX-SE. They are hungry for product and do not feel the need for all the tedious FSX voodoo.

Best of luck in this project.
 
thefrog said:
Well I don't dislike Alabeo, quite the opposite. I don't think any developer deserves to be bashed on this forum.
Click to expand...

Do please try to understand the meaning of the word 'bash' before you throw it at someone like a poison tipped spear.

Disagreeing, stating one dislikes, or prefers another, is not bashing.

Needlessly insulting for no reason, is bashing, stating an opinion, and clarifying, is not.
 
Thanks Firekitten, I have been watching this thread closely especially seeing the word bashing. So far the thread has been very instructional for me and I hope others. It would seem much as been learned by all regarding Steam. Appreciate all keeping things upbeat and informative.
 
Please stay on the subject and don't make it bigger than it actually is. I personally think that Rachel said it all very well in the second post of this thread.

I don't think anything said here will make Bazzar change his plan and personally I really don't think he has a reason to do so. So please respect his choice.

This thread made me think. What will I do when my FSX install crashes? will I reinstall from the collection of disks I have. (I have purchased Acceleration separately). Or will I make it easy for myself and go for the steam edition? Perhaps asking the question is answering it.

The things I have via Steam always work without any problem. Updates are installed automatically. What does a man need more.

Cheers,
Huub
 
Chuck_Jodry-VJPL said:
Bazz, looking over your product line i gather this is your first SE release, its always good to test the water but youre often able to find out how's the swimming by asking others who took a dip in that pond, i really gotta wonder if you did.

Best CJ
Click to expand...

Hi Chuck,

Actually, no, the Swift is in for release, going through QA as we speak. It's taking a little time but I understand that licensing issues have to be dealt with. We have indeed done our research and have asked others, had a lengthy dialogue with the guys at DG and so on. I'm too old and ugly to be doing things lightly anymore but rest assured, I still remember where I put my thinking cap. Hope all is well with you.:engel016:
 
Thanks to all for your input. This threat has served its purpose and will close.

Several moderators have voiced concern over critical comments about the Aztec being released as a Steam edition. For myself, I have found the thread very informative with no actual rules being broken. I have heard directly from Bazzar wishing the thread to continue in a productive way so I am reopening the thread. Again, thanks for all the informative comments.
 
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