2 Seaters mean death...

Siggi I hear you and yes we can adjust those factors - but I will say that it will only happen on consensus - so why not start a poll old chap??

But more to my point re the issue is the gunners fire through tailsufaces ISSUE - this is simply a visual thing its not an ISSUE...and it will not be fixed.

The accuracy of the gunners well we have full control over!

If you run your Poll soon I can even look at a change in gunners accuracy in 1.2 so hurry....but do not hold your breath on the visual issue of firing through the tail surface - best not to play.

HTH

WM
 
Winder said:
Siggi I hear you and yes we can adjust those factors - but I will say that it will only happen on consensus - so why not start a poll old chap??

But more to my point re the issue is the gunners fire through tailsufaces ISSUE - this is simply a visual thing its not an ISSUE...and it will not be fixed.

The accuracy of the gunners well we have full control over!

If you run your Poll soon I can even look at a change in gunners accuracy in 1.2 so hurry....but do not hold your breath on the visual issue of firing through the tail surface - best not to play.

HTH

WM
Click to expand...

I really don't give much of a hoot about them firing through their own surfaces, I can accomodate that in my mind with the crew making cunning personal mods to their own plane. ;)

The accuracy though...I'm not even asking for a change in a patch, though I'd obviously like everyone to be on the same page. I'm happy enough to mod my own version of the game, if that's possible of course (a text-change in a file if the parameter isn't hard-coded).

I've flown eleven real-time hours with my character now (I take my immersion seriously), and I'm not going to throw that investment down the pan to the hands of a golden-BB gunner. Did that in IL2, too many times, and the disc ended up under the coffee-mug (metaphorically speaking). :icon_lol:

I'll do a poll regardless though. But can I please have instructions on how to adjust my own game? I don't want to try by myself and possibly bust it.
 
Thanx for the feedback fellow pilots...Much appreciated...
I would just like to say that this is a minor flaw in the game-apart from that this game is the bees Knees...Thankyou to all the developers and keep em coming...


:ernae:
Hey Captain Jones "Look at that pretty Red Plane"
 
I am in the middle on this issue, but leaning toward an adjustment downward of the rear gunners accuracy. On the other hand, a flight of two scouts against 6 two seaters of unknown skill strikes me as a bit, shall we say, dangerous. I don't believe you will find that our friend Manfred von R. would, or did, attack two seaters with those odds. If he did, he would stalk and attack only with the element of surprise, not with a headlong pass where the enemy could see you coming from far away. My 2 cents...
 
Here's an idea. Instead of toning down the accuracy of the gunners, could OBD adjust the gunners hitbox so that it would be easier to kill or wound them. It seems to me that the gunner is in a much more exposed position than the pilot, as he is generally standing and exposed from at least the hips up. Wouldn't this also more accurately reflect tactics of the time, or have I seen too many WWI flying movies? :wiggle:
 
Winder, is it possible to do what Siggi asks, and give instructions for people thermselves to alter, OR, as will be done in 1.2 with the claims, is it possible to add a rear gunner difficulty selector (to the Workshop)? With maybe two or three settings?

Anyway I started my first "Real" campaign yesterday flying Dr1s with Jasta 11, and have only run into Camels, SE5As and Spad VIIs so I have not had trouble yet, but rather, lot of fun!

Please dont think that I dont enjoy all the hard work that you guys have put into this baby, it's jsut that, when you are this close to perfection and see it ahead of you, you will want it eh? :woot:
 
James "Taffy" Jones said:
I am in the middle on this issue, but leaning toward an adjustment downward of the rear gunners accuracy. On the other hand, a flight of two scouts against 6 two seaters of unknown skill strikes me as a bit, shall we say, dangerous. I don't believe you will find that our friend Manfred von R. would, or did, attack two seaters with those odds. If he did, he would stalk and attack only with the element of surprise, not with a headlong pass where the enemy could see you coming from far away. My 2 cents...
Click to expand...

It wasn't an attack, though flying headlong into them amounts to much the same thing I suppose.

But that's irrelevant. The point is that they broke up quite violently, and I doubt a gunner would be able to do much more than hang on for dear life at that point, never mind fire his MG. MUCH LESS hit anything. MUCH MUCH less hit it well enough to the point he knocked it out of action as comprehensively as mine.

I know these details cannot be modelled, so the only option in my opinion is to nerf the gunners accuracy. A lot. The downside of that will be poor gunnery even against attackers parking on the tail, but that's only ONE downside vs MULTIPLE downsides having it as it is now.

Or, to put it another way, I would consider it much more realistic that all gunners be modelled as terrified and largely hopeless rookies than as fearless Daniel Boone supermen. ;)
 
Winder said:
Siggi I hear you and yes we can adjust those factors - but I will say that it will only happen on consensus - so why not start a poll old chap??

But more to my point re the issue is the gunners fire through tailsufaces ISSUE - this is simply a visual thing its not an ISSUE...and it will not be fixed.

The accuracy of the gunners well we have full control over!

If you run your Poll soon I can even look at a change in gunners accuracy in 1.2 so hurry....but do not hold your breath on the visual issue of firing through the tail surface - best not to play.

HTH

WM
Click to expand...
Winder if it is posisble for the user to determine how "realisitc" the MGs of the two seaters are as well as enemy AI level (in workshop), that would go along way to making eveyrone happy and probably would lend itself to the game being more accessible ot beginners as well etc.

Your up and coming solution of the claim report was perfect , so if the MG damage model (or accuracy) and enemy AI levels can be twekaed in workshop like the claims solution , that would be the ticket.
 
For me its the distance that they can shoot you down not the spread or accuracy. If you sit behind a 2 seater then you are asking for trouble but to be shot down when all you can see is a small outline is frustrating to say the least.
Just my thoughts
 
Winder said:
But more to my point re the issue is the gunners fire through tailsufaces ISSUE - this is simply a visual thing its not an ISSUE...and it will not be fixed. WM
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I don't understand, but am willing to hear more on the subject

Basically, I keep going back to the 'pushers' (like the FE2). In the sim, when you approach from astern, the pusher gunners shoot backwards through the engine and propeller. Yet that didn't happen in real life, or thats what I always heard.

The tractor-types are not as obvious of an 'issue', but still, I was always given to believe that attacks were often made from underneath so the gunner couldn't shoot you.

Maybe my understanding of these things is incorrect (Wouldn't be the first time!)
 
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