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The Staff of SOH
2011 Around-The-World Race SOH Watering Hole
- Thread starter Moses03
- Start date
Ferry_vO
Retired SOH Administrator
Was that the moment someone started shouting "$^!t, $^!t, $^!t, $^!t, $^!t, $^!t, $^!t !!!" over the teamspeak channel..? 
Don't worry Smilo, we've all been there and know how it feels.. I once crashed a Hornet when trying to avoid a mountain (That race had a silly 6,500 ft. ceiling rule over Europe and I overstressed it when a mountain doomed up in thick fog..
Don't worry Smilo, we've all been there and know how it feels.. I once crashed a Hornet when trying to avoid a mountain (That race had a silly 6,500 ft. ceiling rule over Europe and I overstressed it when a mountain doomed up in thick fog..
yup, that "someone" was me...
another fine example of self restraint
in the face of adversity.
the thing is, i had just been involved
in one of several discussions
regarding the need for the team to run clean.
we figured that, mistakes would really hurt us.
at this point in the race, we had only had one wing transfer.
i made it two and as it turned out, we had one more.
when mine happened, my teammates consoled me with
"it's okay, it's happened to us all",
which i greatly appreciated,
but i was still very upset with myself.
the hardest part was getting back on the horse.
when our first crash happened,
i kept my mouth shut,
because i really didn't know how the pilot felt,
even though i could hear it in his voice.
now, i am able to sincerely say,
i'm with you, i understand, it's okay.
onward and upward, my friend.
another fine example of self restraint
in the face of adversity.
the thing is, i had just been involved
in one of several discussions
regarding the need for the team to run clean.
we figured that, mistakes would really hurt us.
at this point in the race, we had only had one wing transfer.
i made it two and as it turned out, we had one more.
when mine happened, my teammates consoled me with
"it's okay, it's happened to us all",
which i greatly appreciated,
but i was still very upset with myself.
the hardest part was getting back on the horse.
when our first crash happened,
i kept my mouth shut,
because i really didn't know how the pilot felt,
even though i could hear it in his voice.
now, i am able to sincerely say,
i'm with you, i understand, it's okay.
onward and upward, my friend.
it's been a while and you would think i'd get over it.
well, apparently, not quite yet.
i keep playing it over and over
and think i need to finish the story.
can anyone say, obsessive?
the thing is, after crashing
and my "$^!t, $^!t, $^!t !!!" outburst,
(sorry, Ferry, I think it was only 3 "$^!t"s)
i made a comment about the "damn auto-pilot".
this comment bothers me most.
so much so, that i went back to the scene
and reran the approach and touchdown
5 times without incident...smooth as silk,
with AP engaged all the way to full stop.
so what happened?
simple answer,
PILOT ERROR
i did not trust the AP approach angle,
pulled back on the stick,
which in turn screwed up the trim.
when i released the stick pressure,
she nosed in.
SPALT...DANG
suffice to say, I succumbed to the pressure of the moment,
panicked and screwed the pooch.
worst of all, blamed my failings on the aircraft.
simple as that.
there you have it.
i feel better now that the record is straight.
hopefully, i will learn from my mistakes
and not be so quick to pass blame.
most importantly, i must learn to relax,
just like driving on ice and snow.
well, apparently, not quite yet.
i keep playing it over and over
and think i need to finish the story.
can anyone say, obsessive?
the thing is, after crashing
and my "$^!t, $^!t, $^!t !!!" outburst,
(sorry, Ferry, I think it was only 3 "$^!t"s)
i made a comment about the "damn auto-pilot".
this comment bothers me most.
so much so, that i went back to the scene
and reran the approach and touchdown
5 times without incident...smooth as silk,
with AP engaged all the way to full stop.
so what happened?
simple answer,
PILOT ERROR
i did not trust the AP approach angle,
pulled back on the stick,
which in turn screwed up the trim.
when i released the stick pressure,
she nosed in.
SPALT...DANG
suffice to say, I succumbed to the pressure of the moment,
panicked and screwed the pooch.
worst of all, blamed my failings on the aircraft.
simple as that.
there you have it.
i feel better now that the record is straight.
hopefully, i will learn from my mistakes
and not be so quick to pass blame.
most importantly, i must learn to relax,
just like driving on ice and snow.
Ok smilo, now you're scaring me. No way I would let "otto" try to land the plane. I let him fly the plane going straight and level, and even let him take the ship within visual range of the airport, when the weather is bad. But I always watch him like a hawk, and I always have a sharp stick and a ball peen hammer at the ready, just in case, because I know otto hates me and will kill me if given half a chance!
As for crashing with the baton, one dark and stormy night over the North Atlantic, I had the baton in the DSB A-7E. I was making over 700 knots GS with a tail wind, flying right on the very edge of overspeed, feeling very proud of myself. Then the wind shifted and I got an overspeed. Stupid me, instead of simply and calmly popping the speed brake for a second, I freaked, took over control from otto, and attempted to kill speed by pulling up. In the process I over stressed the ship and that was that. Fortunately dcc had wing and completed the leg without doing anything stoopid like the erstwhile baton holder. That one upset me for a long time.
As for crashing with the baton, one dark and stormy night over the North Atlantic, I had the baton in the DSB A-7E. I was making over 700 knots GS with a tail wind, flying right on the very edge of overspeed, feeling very proud of myself. Then the wind shifted and I got an overspeed. Stupid me, instead of simply and calmly popping the speed brake for a second, I freaked, took over control from otto, and attempted to kill speed by pulling up. In the process I over stressed the ship and that was that. Fortunately dcc had wing and completed the leg without doing anything stoopid like the erstwhile baton holder. That one upset me for a long time.
Smilo you are forgetting decision height.
When flying the ILS which should only be done in visibility that is IFR the appropriate decision height is about 200' above the runway elevation. This decision height is the point at which you do not have the runway in site you execute a missed approach and try again.
Once you have the runway in site you should disengage the auto pilot and land the plane manually.
As a general rule when you see the runway its time to turn otto off. I usually will bend that rule if in a strong cross wind but you still need to get it turned off with enough height to safely land the plane.
You should never let the aircraft fly the whole way to the ground on the ILS especially not in FS. Too often the glide slope will not be lined up properly with the runway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_approach
When in VFR conditions which is about 6.2 miles of visibility you should never need to use the ILS.
Its good to know how to use the ILS but having it land the plane is going to lead to bad results.
When flying the ILS which should only be done in visibility that is IFR the appropriate decision height is about 200' above the runway elevation. This decision height is the point at which you do not have the runway in site you execute a missed approach and try again.
Once you have the runway in site you should disengage the auto pilot and land the plane manually.
As a general rule when you see the runway its time to turn otto off. I usually will bend that rule if in a strong cross wind but you still need to get it turned off with enough height to safely land the plane.
You should never let the aircraft fly the whole way to the ground on the ILS especially not in FS. Too often the glide slope will not be lined up properly with the runway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_approach
When in VFR conditions which is about 6.2 miles of visibility you should never need to use the ILS.
Its good to know how to use the ILS but having it land the plane is going to lead to bad results.
i understand, honest i do.
i don't' mean to argue, but,
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?48303-F7F/page4
see post #58
i guess it depends on the airport or something.
i have done this several times in the F7F
and was trying to be safe.
this line in post #59 says it all,
"A bit of a leap of faith to drive down to 50 ft or so when you can see the runway."
bottom line, i lost faith and screwed it up.
also, i've noticed a trim problem with AP,
sometimes, it's way out of wack when i turn off AP.
(i have a digital trim counter that i use for reference)
it got so bad that i changed one of my stick axis to elevator trim axis.
(if you recall, i use two sticks.
one has a T handle throttle,
which freed up the throttle slider on the other.)
this is real handy when i want to go from
say, +20 to +5 quickly, instead of rapidly pushing the minus trim key.
the problem was that i panicked,
forgot to quickly make the adjustment and paid the price.
what this is really all about
is a round about apology to Tom
for blaming the F7F auto-pilot
instead of my poor flying skills
and my over reaction to a mistake.
it may not be a big deal.
we've all made mistakes,
but it still cost us 30+ minutes that i'm responsible for.
so it goes, live and learn.
hopefully it, will make me a better pilot.
i don't' mean to argue, but,
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?48303-F7F/page4
see post #58
i guess it depends on the airport or something.
i have done this several times in the F7F
and was trying to be safe.
this line in post #59 says it all,
"A bit of a leap of faith to drive down to 50 ft or so when you can see the runway."
bottom line, i lost faith and screwed it up.
also, i've noticed a trim problem with AP,
sometimes, it's way out of wack when i turn off AP.
(i have a digital trim counter that i use for reference)
it got so bad that i changed one of my stick axis to elevator trim axis.
(if you recall, i use two sticks.
one has a T handle throttle,
which freed up the throttle slider on the other.)
this is real handy when i want to go from
say, +20 to +5 quickly, instead of rapidly pushing the minus trim key.
the problem was that i panicked,
forgot to quickly make the adjustment and paid the price.
what this is really all about
is a round about apology to Tom
for blaming the F7F auto-pilot
instead of my poor flying skills
and my over reaction to a mistake.
it may not be a big deal.
we've all made mistakes,
but it still cost us 30+ minutes that i'm responsible for.
so it goes, live and learn.
hopefully it, will make me a better pilot.
That which does not Kill us...
Can be a whole lot of fun.
Of course you realize I am not one for doing things proper all the time either.
ROFL!! I know how ya feel Smilo.... I once ran out of fuel 3/4 mile from the airport in DCCs P-38...landed safely in the dark.... but could not make it to airport boundary to count. Route had to be reflown. Back in those days we were communicating via FSHost... the comments would come on screen...
Milton and someone else were waiting for me and I radioed emergency once the engines quit.... still dont know the reason why the fuel ran out.
Anyways the words "Oh Oh" always will be burned into my mind from Milton.... mentioned that to him this year when he was on TS.
Embarrassing.....
Milton and someone else were waiting for me and I radioed emergency once the engines quit.... still dont know the reason why the fuel ran out.
Anyways the words "Oh Oh" always will be burned into my mind from Milton.... mentioned that to him this year when he was on TS.
Embarrassing.....
FLORES!!!
That night's episode brought to you by ... the number 4 and the letter 'F'.
4 for the number of planes we lost that night.... we had the lead too approaching the island with Avsim and Flightsim in tow.... they lost planes too...no one made it baton or wingman for any of the teams in the first flights to approach. We lost one jet from nosegear collapse and another just touching the water. Windy and rainy night too with a nasty crosswind from south to north. in FSX there was a hill right in front of it on the western end.
By the time we got out of there we were last.
'F' for the name of the island... and other things muttered that night.
Worst night I think we ever went thru. I caught a lot of flak from the Avsim guys at the convention later that year.
Next year I think we won... and when we had the very harrowing approach into Terra del Fuego... foggy night thru a narrow valley with a hill followed by a sharp drop into a poststamp of an airfield. I sat at the end of the airfield next to a bridge that crossed an inlet on the south side with the other sides covered in jungle. I swear there was just enough width on that airfield to land and taxi wingtip to wingtip.
Pretty sure it was DCC and Moparmike in that flight.
Most amazing bit of FS flying I ever saw and it all happened right in front of me. One of the highlights of my RTW experience.
That night's episode brought to you by ... the number 4 and the letter 'F'.
4 for the number of planes we lost that night.... we had the lead too approaching the island with Avsim and Flightsim in tow.... they lost planes too...no one made it baton or wingman for any of the teams in the first flights to approach. We lost one jet from nosegear collapse and another just touching the water. Windy and rainy night too with a nasty crosswind from south to north. in FSX there was a hill right in front of it on the western end.
By the time we got out of there we were last.
'F' for the name of the island... and other things muttered that night.
Worst night I think we ever went thru. I caught a lot of flak from the Avsim guys at the convention later that year.
Next year I think we won... and when we had the very harrowing approach into Terra del Fuego... foggy night thru a narrow valley with a hill followed by a sharp drop into a poststamp of an airfield. I sat at the end of the airfield next to a bridge that crossed an inlet on the south side with the other sides covered in jungle. I swear there was just enough width on that airfield to land and taxi wingtip to wingtip.
Pretty sure it was DCC and Moparmike in that flight.
Most amazing bit of FS flying I ever saw and it all happened right in front of me. One of the highlights of my RTW experience.
Ferry_vO
Retired SOH Administrator
That and the crash in the Turkish mountains (That race with the silly 6,500 ft. ceiling over Yurp) will always haunt me.. IIRC I had the 'honour' of starting the junkpile there; all the others just crashed into my debris.. My first approach wasn't good, so I did a go-around in my 777. Second approach was good but a fraction before the main wheels touched the runway I crashed! Guess it was a combination of that 'bump' in front of the runway and maybe a contact point issue..
If only we had used that large, lighted military field with that huge runway nearby, but IIRC we could only deviate from mandatory corridor fields a few times and he had used up all in other corridors?
Highlights? The nightlanding at ENOV in the Osprey, the four-hour B-2 bomber run over the Pacific with Panaka and a flight with the Hornet over South America with a huge tailwind; I think it still holds the record for the fastest prop aircraft ever..
Couldn't get some time off this year, but I will try to join you again next year!
thanks guys, your stories of trials and tribulations
in past races are great to read.
not only is it helpful to see that
everyone has had their problems,
i actually learned something from
this screenie Mike posted.
i've been wanting to move popup windows
to my secondary monitor,
but couldn't figure out how to do it.
tah, dah!! i finally got it.
thanks, Mike. :salute:
in past races are great to read.
not only is it helpful to see that
everyone has had their problems,
i actually learned something from
this screenie Mike posted.
i've been wanting to move popup windows
to my secondary monitor,
but couldn't figure out how to do it.
tah, dah!! i finally got it.
thanks, Mike. :salute:
The thing I could never figure out about Flores was the runway, I went back after that and made numerous perfect landings there, but each time, even with a perfect touchdown, the nosewheel would submerge into the pavement and register a crash. Sometimes make me think we got led into a trap..... sometimes. Never seen that happen before!
Cheers: T
Cheers: T