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  • Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.

    Post 16 Update

    Post 17 Warning

A B-17F wanted

Anyone adept at photo interpretation could do a F. It doesn't take that much smarts. Won't require someone going all over hell to see one. I go back to, "the F won the war". All the Gs were left over because the fight had gone out of the Germans. They were used as target drones or for USCG rescue and war memorials. They left one at Salem, Mass. In three years it was a broken down relic. There just was a bunch of them, never dropped a bomb or shot a gun. I just want to fly a real B-17. Is that asking too much?
 
Unfortunatly far far too different for us to do at this time theres a bunch of differances in the externals, internals but the real work is in the core simulation of the aircraft. The systems are just like two different aircraft inside, and as nice as models are it is 2012 so the idea that a realistic simulator would not 'simulate' the core of an aircraft is a bit silly (for me personally just changing the model alone is akin to buying a classic rolls royce and then kitting it out with neon pink furry dice).

It kinda also depends on what era F to model, late F's where pretty much G's. Having said that, we cannot be sure in the future, time gaps certainly present themselves every so often so who knows. For now though, not on the plate.

Heres a recent thread on our forums with the community disscussing a few things re: F and G's;
http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11454
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Lewis-A2A said:
The systems are just like two different aircraft inside
Click to expand...

I would love for this to be explained in detail (how majorly different, as described, could the systems be?). Even with a few differences, it wouldn't be all that much of a stretch from the A2A P-40B/C Tomahawk, which has several details and characteristics incorporated from later-models (most noticable perhaps, that being the emergency hydraulic system), that are not correct for the variant (and is advertised as a "Warhawk", a name that was applied later on).
 
Helldiver said:
I just want to fly a real B-17. Is that asking too much?
Click to expand...

Hi Helldiver,
I've got a couple of F models out on the line right now at Hobbs.


View attachment 58469 View attachment 58468

You can probably get the HD_B17F around here somewhere for a
couple of box tops. The Wing of Power B-17F came in a pack with
eight other Allied heavies with a couple of Nazi jets thrown in for
eight bucks. Go to the SOH thread below and click on OleBoy's
link. I just checked it and they say there are 10 left.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?61630-Wings-of-Power-Collection
 
Helldiver said:
There just was a bunch of them, never dropped a bomb or shot a gun. I just want to fly a real B-17.
Click to expand...

You were saying ... ?

B-17G_formation_on_bomb_run.jpg


de_lancey.jpg


View attachment 58477

B-17F_Destroyed_by_Me-262.jpg
 
I believe he was talking about all the G's that were still in the assembly pipeline when the war ended. After the war there were 100's just sitting around with no war to go to. You could buy a B-17 for about 3000 dollars, and a P-38 for 1500 dollars....with full gas tanks. Seriously, the US government started auctioning them off to anyone with the money.

I like the pics BTW, I'm a B-17 ETO fanatic.
 
Bomber_12th said:
I would love for this to be explained in detail (how majorly different, as described, could the systems be?). Even with a few differences, it wouldn't be all that much of a stretch from the A2A P-40B/C Tomahawk, which has several details and characteristics incorporated from later-models (most noticable perhaps, that being the emergency hydraulic system), that are not correct for the variant (and is advertised as a "Warhawk", a name that was applied later on).
Click to expand...


In the USAAF training video of the P-40, a later variant than the A2A models, it is noted that ALL models of the P-40 have the emergency "independent" hydraulic system except for the P-40L. Of course the accuracy of a lot of those training films can be a bit dodgy at times, but it certainly is something to consider as they are the actual army films.

Additionally, here is a link of a manual from early Tomahawk models of the P-40 included with notes from AVG pilots (concerning operating the emergency pump included). The manual is a bit of a mystery as discussed in the modern day intro.

http://www.keyos.org/avia/usa/curtis_tomahawk_p40/manual1.htm
"[FONT=Arial,]In the event of a hydraulic failure, the handle was removed from its normal position, and placed on a second position outboard of the normal position. In this position, would direct pressure to the main gear and lower the mains, but it would not lower the tail wheel which was left retracted."


[/FONT]
 
The P-40B/C was withdrawn from service in the USAAF shortly after the U.S. entered the war, with the P-40D and E already on the scene/coming on the scene in numbers. By the time that movie was shot, the B/C was no longer part of the picture, with the E, F, K, L, and N models long surpassing the B/C's.

I hope the Flight Replicas P-40N will get finished - it will be perfect, without doubt.
 
Bomber_12th said:
The P-40B/C was withdrawn from service in the USAAF shortly after the U.S. entered the war, with the P-40D and E already on the scene/coming on the scene in numbers. By the time that movie was shot, the B/C was no longer part of the picture, with the E, F, K, L, and N models long surpassing the B/C's.

I hope the Flight Replicas P-40N will get finished - it will be perfect, without doubt.
Click to expand...

In the link I added later to my post above, Erik Shilling, a pilot with the AVG notes the use of the emergency hand pump for hydraulic failures.
 
Of course the early p-40 models were removed from front line service, but they didn't disappear. As found here http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/other-mechanical-systems-tech/p-40-flight-manual-7478-3.html a service bulletin for the P-40 shows a few instances of service work being ordered for P-40Bs and Cs. Certainly then, these early P-40s were not forgotten later in the war. As such, the mention of the emergency hand pump being in all P-40s except the L model cannot be disregarded based solely upon the date of the film's creation.
 
The A.V.G. even had P-40E's in very early spring of '42.

Regardless of what is said, I have yet to see a P-40B/C with the emergency system...I would love to be proved otherwise. Until then, I've seen the cockpits of three, and none of them have the emergency system.

BTW, the P-40B/C's were all named Tomahawks, and D's and E's were called Kittyhawks. It wasn't until the P-40F that the name Warhawk was applied to it and further models...hopefully some advertising hasn't skewed this too much.
 
Bomber_12th said:
hopefully some advertising hasn't skewed this too much.
Click to expand...

Sounds just like propaganda... advertising has skewed things for a looooooong time concerning war :icon_lol:

I'd have to imagine after a couple weeks in China, any P-40 looked quite a bit different from its original model what with parts shortages and constant modifications.
 
I guess you guys haven't seen the movie "Red Tails" They were flying P-40s in Italy. Well after the war had started.. Yeah there were some B-17Gs that managed to fly at the end of the war.
All I'm saying I want to see a jouneyman B-17F that carried the burden of the bombing.
Hey, I was around then and you kids have things screwed up beyond belief.
 
3,405 B-17Fs were built.
8,680 B-17Gs were built.
B-17Gs began arriving in England September, !943.
One of the first missions that included B-17Gs was the raid on Schweinfurt October 14, 1943 (Black Thursday).
4,750 B-17s were lost to combat, the large majority of these were B-17Gs.
These numbers are easily verifiable in historical documents and online.

My uncle, SSgt A.P. Johnson, was killed by flack in August, 1944 while flying in a raid over Germany in a B-17G.
 
jojohnson9 said:
3,405 B-17Fs were built.
8,680 B-17Gs were built.
B-17Gs began arriving in England September, !943.
One of the first missions that included B-17Gs was the raid on Schweinfurt October 14, 1943 (Black Thursday).
4,750 B-17s were lost to combat, the large majority of these were B-17Gs.
These numbers are easily verifiable in historical documents and online.

My uncle, SSgt A.P. Johnson, was killed by flack in August, 1944 while flying in a raid over Germany in a B-17G.
Click to expand...

Excellent post, John, and likely the most sensible of the entire thread.
 
jojohnson9 said:
3,405 B-17Fs were built.
8,680 B-17Gs were built.
B-17Gs began arriving in England September, !943.
One of the first missions that included B-17Gs was the raid on Schweinfurt October 14, 1943 (Black Thursday).
4,750 B-17s were lost to combat, the large majority of these were B-17Gs.
These numbers are easily verifiable in historical documents and online.

My uncle, SSgt A.P. Johnson, was killed by flack in August, 1944 while flying in a raid over Germany in a B-17G.
Click to expand...

Good facts. The US government kept a record of even the most mundane things during that war...pencils used, I think I remember seeing once. I've watched a lot of post mission debriefs of ETO bomber crews that were caught on film, and seen some of the documentation on losses and accidents. They got nitpicky with facts, and it seems to have gotten worse.
 
jojohnson9 said:
3,405 B-17Fs were built.
8,680 B-17Gs were built.
B-17Gs began arriving in England September, !943.
One of the first missions that included B-17Gs was the raid on Schweinfurt October 14, 1943 (Black Thursday).
4,750 B-17s were lost to combat, the large majority of these were B-17Gs.
These numbers are easily verifiable in historical documents and online.

My uncle, SSgt A.P. Johnson, was killed by flack in August, 1944 while flying in a raid over Germany in a B-17G.
Click to expand...

LOL, great find John. Spent my lunch googling the same stuff as it seemed some of the earlier posts were a bit off on the facts, and a similar thread existed in the A2A forum, or maybe AVSIM. Anyway, would also love to see an earlier Flying Fort, not necessarily an F, but maybe a C or D with different tail design.

Matt
 
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