A Couple of Questions

V

von Baur

Guest
Sorry if they're answered elsewhere, but I looked through the "Tips and Cheats" thread and saw no reference and given the number of pages in this forum looking it up would be a daunting task, to say the least.

Albatros D-V. Picked this bird for a quick flight and was nose-down immediately. Had to fly somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 back stick just to maintain level flight..nose-up attitude was next to impossible. Is that just me or is it normal. And if normal, was that historically accurate. I'd read that a lot of German pilots considered the D-III a better plane than the D-V, but this thing was practically unflyable and I don't see how it could have made it into service at all the way I experienced it.

Force feedback. I like it. I like feeling when my aircraft is close to a stall or building up too much speed. The first stick I bought was a MS FFPro and I have a FFPro2 now. My biggest complaint against Richtofen's Skies is that force feedback doesn't work in the current Target Ware engine and I can see how it impacts my flying. And it's not just me..when the F-16 was first introduced with its fly-by-wire controls the pilots complained about the lack of tactile input and General Dynamics actually put computerized force feedback in the plane. But some of the birds in OFF have extremely light sticks (N-11, Sop tripe, DrI to name a few), so light in fact that my stick feels like a wet dishrag (and yes, WF2, I'm a husband who does dishes sometimes and knows what a wet dishrag feels like :p87: :a1089: ;)). I assume this is a game design thing and I can support lighter pressure on certain models than others, but I'm not sure that it should be that light on any. These guys were, after all, pushing large surface areas against 60+mph winds. I know that Fokker had balancing tabs on his control surfaces to help reduce that, but British and French planes didn't (with the exception of Nieuports' rudders).

Any info?
 
Hello,
just recalibrate your joystick when you are at the aerodrome, in the cockpit, and ready to start - move it to every position, twist it (if the js has a twist-rudder), and move the throttle control from min to max a few times. Be sure to give FULL throttle.
In e.g. the Albatros planes you have to adjust the fuel mixture to the various altitudes to keep the prop spinning with appx. 1400 revs. Lean the mixture at high altitudes, and enrich it while sinking - just get used to it :icon_lol:
As well you can press the keys for auto-trim (was it alt-a?), but i would consider this as cheating.
Be aware you may be spoiled by RedBaron or other flight simulators, those birds have different characteristics and attitudes. Especially the Alb. D.II seems a bit to "hang" in the air, i also noticed that. I take it a well rigged and trimmed Albatros will probably be less nose-heavy, but maybe that's just me.

Have fun,
Catfish
 
von Baur said:
Albatros D-V. Picked this bird for a quick flight and was nose-down immediately. Had to fly somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 back stick just to maintain level flight.
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This is not a problem with your system...I have the same thing with many of the German planes, and I believe it is just how the OFF FM is set up. I am no expert so can't comment on if it is historically accurate or not, but I suspect not entirely accurate as the affected planes are almost unflyable. I use the trim up/down (Num1/Num7) to 'fix' it, or you can enable auto-trim.
 
Unflyable? Sheez you guys must have some wierd joysticks. No way it's unflyable.

Some P3 craft are rebalanced Albs are less nose heavy for example. We had great difficulty getting the AI to fly AND the player in several circumstances so some compromises had to be made - feel free to try changing them you will shoot yourself trying... P3 is better in this regard.

FF is fine for me some have said it is too strong.. German craft have extra force applied too as they were often described as needing strong muscles lol.
Can't win lol.
 
von Baur said:
But some of the birds in OFF have extremely light sticks (N-11, Sop tripe, DrI to name a few), so light in fact that my stick feels like a wet dish-rag.
Click to expand...

This is normal with the MSFF2 stick. Not sure if other FFb sticks are less affected. It has been commented on by many in the past and I don't think any real solution has been found, so I just live with it.

Apparently it is worse if you have installed the MSFF2 controller software (BTW the stick works fine in OFF with no software installed...you can just plug it into the USB and it works).
 
Polovski said:
Unflyable? Sheez you guys must have some wierd joysticks. No way it's unflyable.
Click to expand...

Hi Pol: The difference between systems and joysticks I guess. On my system you struggle to keep a level flight in some birds such as the Albatross, and particularly the Eindecker. A loop or quick climb would be impossible.

Planes can be trimmed to taste so not a big deal. Like all things in OFF the user has freedom to adjust settings to his level of happiness.

I figured this would change in Phase 3 since you had mentioned redoing some of the FMs a while back...great!!
 
Yep must be 77Scout. You will find P3 much better anyway - hang in there.
 
Hanging, Pol, hanging.

Thanx for the replies, guys. I'll try recalibrating, Catfish, but I don't like using a WWII feature (trim) on WWI aircraft, either.
 
von Baur said:
but I don't like using a WWII feature (trim) on WWI aircraft, either.
Click to expand...

Don't be too hard on yourself. :) Using the trim to "set" the default right is not using WW 2 type trim. that sort of trim is used constantly in flight. This sort is merely giving you level flight when your joystick is centred when you first start flying the plane.

When i first started sims with Flying corps Gold, I can remember the manual explaining that all WW1 planes needed a constant slight input of down on the joystick to keep level flight.
Whether that was completely accurate in fact, i have no idea. But that's what FCG said.
 
Hey, von Baur
When the FF sticks all show that problem, I wouldn't say, trimming was cheating. And another thing I always do: Look at your mission flight plan. You can read, how much the whole flight distance is. And then you only take as much fuel with you (can be adjusted right there), as you need, plus 10-20 % for dogfighting.
I almost only fly the Albatros (right now the D II), and I shot down numerous planes with them, even Camels. The only thing she wouldn't like to do, is climb well above 6.000 feet. But there, CATFISH may be right with the mixture; must try (thank you, CATFISH).
Cheers; Olham
 
Different Sticks This Force FeedBack NUT Has Used:

Mickysoft FFB Sidewinder II = Great FFB Pulse, great control surface sensitivity, Piss Poor Rudder Response. If you're using pedals Great Stick, if you only use the twisty stick. :censored:

Logitech FF Pro 2 = Limp Dishrag* they were practically giving them away when the New Logitechs came out.:censored::censored::censored:
* Limp Dishrag is descriptive, and since this is family forum, adequite

Logitech FF 3D Pro = still a great stick, even without the Force, which only lasted me 6 months, and it wasn't the transformer, whatever was in the stick itself. I may have just been lucky, others givem straight A's

Saitek Cyclone EVO FFB = Perfection in my book, only drawback is the throttle control Placement, so I use my keyboard. That plus the base gets extremely hot, but my desktop has yet to complain.
 
Trimming is not cheating if you imagine that it is just simulating your ground crew setting up the plane to fly level. If you were a pilot and you plane required nearly full back-stick just to fly level, I imagine you would land and tell the ground-crew to darn well fix it (i.e. re-adjust the planes rigging). I just envision adjusting the trim at takeoff in this context.
 
They are set to not need near full back, but everyone's system is different. EIII is probably worse, but once you are off the ground and pick up a little speed it's fine.

There is a lot more detail to this than first meets the eye and that's the problem everyone sees something then jumps on it witout thinking "why" or at least thinking there could well be a reason or even research behind it :)

Many craft were described as needing some stick to keep level even after the ground crew tried their best to balance them how the pilot wanted. Some nose heavy, some tail heavy so would slip or yaw etc due to various bad forces at work on a WW1 craft. Read up on the parasol I'm looking forward to getting that feeling of slipping sideways down at take off and needing full (left I think) stick to try to keep it from crashing into the shed the pilot hangin on for dear life (see Cecil Lewis' Sagittarius Rising ;))

Don't forget many have fuel loads that will change (some dramtically) the balance as the tank empties... even from tail heavy to nose heavy or vica versa. Or perhaps it is setup so that when you land after a mission (low fuel) it lands easily - or when over enemy territory dogfights better whatever.
 
WW2 planes had, as far as I know, a trimmer in the cabin; so the pilot could adjust in flight (?). If that's right - were there any WW1 planes offering this?
Otherwise, I was cheating recently, as I trimmed elevators up 15 % at start and takeoff, and for the climb up to 5.000 feet; then I leveled out.
 
Trim for WW1 a/c was external, and for the most part, non-adjustable at least in the ease to do sense. Some a/c, for example, had a block (or a spacer) under the front on the vertical stabilizer. A smaller block would trim the plane nose up, while a larger one would trim the plane nose down. Ground crew would have to do this and it could take a while. Likewise, some had an adjustment on the front of the fin that could be moved right or left. On the DR1, rudder trim didn't happen as it doesn't have a horz stabilizer.
 
Can't say it's chisled in stone somewhere, but I've been led to understand
the pilot of an SE5a had partial control of elevator trim.

But for the most part, any trim work performed, was done by the mechanic on the ground, if any adjustment could be made :kilroy:
 
CFS3's autotrim feature used to drive me madd. Especially if I didn't fly the danr planes for a while. I use the "Z" key cheat so I can tell if it is on or not. I usually have to manually turn it off and then use the "1" and "7" keys on the keypad to zero out the trim. The default from MS should have been off and all trim settings at zero. Makes ya wonder sometimes.

But I can tell if I've forgotten to turn autotrim off and zero out the trim as the planes fly as mentioned above. Once zero'ed out, I can fly normal with no issues.
 
O/T Trackir support in BHAH

Will OFF "Between Heaven and Hell" support Trackir with 6 DOF, or 5 DOF like Phase 2? Not really a big deal, it's just that with the "roll" capability it would be a lot easier to see when taxiing etc.

CJ
 
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