A new Focke-Wulf FW190 sub-type, the FW190F-8/R1 fighter bomber

Captain Kurt

Captain Kurt

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A new Focke-Wulf FW190 sub-type, the FW190F-8/R1 fighter bomber

The 354th FG intercepted FW190 fighter bombers trying to bomb American ground forces on numerous occasions in late 1944 and 1945. We only have the F-2 version from Akemi but by 1944 there would not have been any of this sub-type left on the Western Front.

The planes used against the Western Front Allies were the FW190F-8 and F-9. Using Akemi's FW190F-8 model, I adapted it as a fighter bomber version with appropriate bomb loads and a new paint job for a plane found abandoned at an airfield captured by the US Army at the end of the war. The unit it flew with is unknown but was may have been SKG10.

It will be part of the 354th FG campaign, but will be posted separately sometime soon as part of the campaign pre-release packages.

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Nice Later War Jabo CK.

Since you've opened the dicussion about the MZ Fw-190's I need to air something out.... One thing, and about the only thing I don't like about this series of Fw-190's is the way they (AI's) dogfight, it's like trying to dogfight with a Fi-156 Storch!!! There has to be a better Airfile/Aircraft.cfg out there for Fw-190A/F AI's. My question is, what is it?
 
Pen32Win

You are really right about the AI behavior in a dogfight of the MZ FW-190. They climb more easily than an elevator!:icon30:
 
And at such slow speed. 190's were Zoomer's and Boomers. These 190's try to dogfight below 150Knts! Trying to stay behind it is an exercise in futility. Even while flying the very same, exact Aircraft......

Far be it for me to complain and not try to do something positive about it but I wanted to check and see if anyone had already solved the problem so I don't waste time reinventing the wheel.
 
Pen32Win said:
And at such slow speed. 190's were Zoomer's and Boomers. These 190's try to dogfight below 150Knts! Trying to stay behind it is an exercise in futility. Even while flying the very same, exact Aircraft......

Far be it for me to complain and not try to do something positive about it but I wanted to check and see if anyone had already solved the problem so I don't waste time reinventing the wheel.
Click to expand...

Pen32Win,

I took the easy way and substituded the VB Fw190A air file for the MZ version (if my memory serves me correctly it was a VB). That may work for you, but I'm interested to know the cause of the 'Storch' effect in the MZ air also. If I get time I'll check into it.

Oglivie

Update: The MZ air file has a section 500 that I do not recall seeing in other air files. Interesting...I haven't tinkered yet though.
 
Thanks Olivie... Easy is good, just as long as it works... I'll give it a go.....
I've also found two other Fw-190A Series Airfiles I'm going to have to try, the SC-JRL-Fw190 and the MK_WOP_Fw190.

This behavior of the MZ 190's also makes them way too easy to kill. I let them pull their Storch climb and stall out, by that time I've extended out, turned back and have a low speed duck waiting there.

One thing to add, CFS2's AI engine is partly at fault here too. The AI engine really plays to the strenghts of the A6M Zero style of dogfighting. Lower speed, tight turns, sharp manuvers, very acrobatic, not the high speed, extended Zoom and Boom Tactics more at home with heavier fighters. As a Player you can force the enemy AI's into this type of fight but your AI's get dragged into a turning dual. I came across a perfect example of this recently while doing some Beta Testing. In the Package is the AH_Huricane Mk.I and 6 different Bf-109's ranging from the Emil to the G-10. In an 8 on 8 identical skill AI match-up mission starting at 20,000 feet the Hurricane wiped every one of them out and got away clean, even against AH's own Bf-109E. The Hurricanes made very short work of Paul Rubbat's 109G-2, 6 and 10. Why? In every case within a couple of passes the fight degenerated into a low speed turning match, which of course the Hurricane will dominate. Sort of like P-47's engaging in a turning match with A6M-2's.. No win....

Sorry to get side tracked here but I thought it might bring out some ideas on how the Fw-190's/Bf-109's could be improved as the AI opposition. Easy kills are no fun, I like opponents I've got to work to bring down. With all of the work CK's put into this upcoming Campaign it would be a shame to have unworthy AI opponents that can't give you a good fight..
 
A very interesting topic. Please keep it going. I'll need to see if one of the other air files will work. I hadn't flown against the 190s yet so I wasn't aware of the weird AI behavior.

Otherwise it looks like I will have another project and another delay to starting mission development. I can probably fix it if I need to. I'd rather not have to though, as it took me almost 2 months to get the Mustang to where it should be.
 
Just Curious....

Pen32Win said:
....the Hurricane wiped every one of them out and got away clean, even against AH's own Bf-109E...
Click to expand...

This may be rhetorical, but I hafta ask - did you go into the AIR file and modify line 1001 [MOI] to appx half the AirWrench values ?

I find that tweaking these numbers [as suggested years ago in a whole 'nuther thread] after running the "Base" Air file thru AirWrench and ACM makes for a more believable opponent....

SC
:kilroy:
 
SC7500;

Since I was Beta Testing someone elses package I made no changes to the existing Airfile/Aircraft.cfg's. I was trying to get a Baseline of Air to Air Combat results to use as a starting point for mods.

I've never used ACM or Airwrench but they sound like something I need to look into and learn more about. Thank You.
 
The US military tested a FW 190 Jabo version (The plane now resides at Udvar Hazy NASM) and got some interesting results. The aircraft was quite a lot lighter than typical because the cowl guns were removed. The wing root cannon were retained along with ballast to simulate ammunition. This aircraft was capable of around 420 mph and 4000 fpm climb rates. The FW was a much more agile bird than folks give it credit for. The British rated Arnim Fabers A model as more maneuverable than the Spitfire IX but not quite as good in turning circles.

- Ivan.
 
I've started rebuilding the flight model of the FW.

Will somebody give these files a test with the mz FW190A-8 both as an AI opponent and as a player aircraft? It seems about right on climb, dive and level speed but I think it may still be a little too hot in the turn and too slow in roll rate (a contradiction, I know). I need some opinions please?
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testers for FW190A-8 flight files

OK so I am thinking no one has seen this posted in the FW109F-8 thread because noone has responded after 24hrs.

It's agreed that the mzFW190 AI flight model is unreal so I'm giving it a shot. Would someone (Pen32Win are you there?) please give these files a trial in the mzFW190A-8 model and give me some feed back? I think its about there in some aspects but not all.

TIA

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I agree that it does seem very eager to turn, maybe take a hair off of that and increase the rate of roll just a bit. As an AI it seemed about right, nice evasion and shot me down twice in my hurri! Thank you for the great work!!:salute:
 
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