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AI weights

K

KellyB

Charter Member
Just read a bit over on the OFF forum having to do with the fact that the AI's in that sim apparently are flying with empty weight values for fuel, pilot, and ammo loads, giving them greater maneuverability. There is even a couple of fixes for this glitch.

Got me to wondering if the same is true for our sims here, since they are all CFS3 based.

How on earth (or in the air) could one tell if your opponent weighs less than he should?

So many questions...
 
KellyB said:
Just read a bit over on the OFF forum having to do with the fact that the AI's in that sim apparently are flying with empty weight values for fuel, pilot, and ammo loads, giving them greater maneuverability. There is even a couple of fixes for this glitch.

Got me to wondering if the same is true for our sims here, since they are all CFS3 based.

How on earth (or in the air) could one tell if your opponent weighs less than he should?

So many questions...
Click to expand...


:wavey:Hey KellyB that’s an interesting question. I recall that many moons ago when CFS3 was in its infancy. There was a fix for it. AI's :greenbo:jumping round like cats on a hot tin roof. :frown:Alas I lost it. Maybe somebody else will remember it. :salute:
 
This is a known issue. If you look at Nigel's 109, they all have an AI version. This specific AI version is loaded with an invisible weight to simulate pilot and fuel. Look into the loadout section of xdp files.
 
Led Zeppelin said:
This is a known issue. If you look at Nigel's 109, they all have an AI version. This specific AI version is loaded with an invisible weight to simulate pilot and fuel. Look into the loadout section of xdp files.
Click to expand...

I looked at one of his ai's vs the full aircraft and I am filled with wonder!

Where would the weight for the ai be located within the loadouts?
 
I am not at home at the moment so I can't look into CFS3.

I don't remember if it is a pylon or a weapon that simulate the weight.
 
KellyB said:
I looked at one of his ai's vs the full aircraft and I am filled with wonder!

Where would the weight for the ai be located within the loadouts?
Click to expand...

Hi KellyB, As well as Led Zep's examples, you will find a lot of ETO aircraft have an AI version. Their cunning system sets the "real" version's xdp to spawn=n, so that in general play the AI version spawns. This allows a heavier flight model and lower rate limit for defensive guns to be used in the spawning version.

But I thought that the additional weight for the AI version was set in the cfg file? but like Loic I am not on my CFS3 computer so cannot check...:running:. but i seem to remember editing AI Me110s, because in general dogfights the dad-blasted 110s seemed to run rings around my Spitfire-equipped wingmen. this amazing flight ability did not seem right and an extra few 100kgs for the AI 110s seemed to make them more like the ungainly ugly ducklings they should be :icon_lol:

David
 
I think I'm seeing glimmers of light here. I found an extra pylon in Nigel's 109 ai version which would supposedly carry weight I guess. I haven't actually loaded his planes to see how it works, but will shortly.

As to the AI in ETO, I found a number of ai xpd's but the Aircraft cfg files don't appear to be set up correctly. Also in both their xpd files, the AllowSpawn is set to "y."

I shall follow Nigel's tut on making AI and fix one up to see how it works out.

This is good for us old folks; keeps the cells firing. Much better than Bingo!!!:icon_lol:
 
It's a fake pylon at the 0,0,0 position (couldn't be bothered to work out the degree of fore-and-aft) which cannot be jettisoned, unlike a weapon. As it adds weight without fiddling with the flight dynamics - which is what others have often done - it seems to me to be the best solution. I didn't invent it - it's a MAW prototype mod which we finally decided not to use, possibly because it can get a bit out of control, having AI versions for each aircraft.
 
ndicki said:
It's a fake pylon at the 0,0,0 position (couldn't be bothered to work out the degree of fore-and-aft) which cannot be jettisoned, unlike a weapon. As it adds weight without fiddling with the flight dynamics - which is what others have often done - it seems to me to be the best solution. I didn't invent it - it's a MAW prototype mod which we finally decided not to use, possibly because it can get a bit out of control, having AI versions for each aircraft.
Click to expand...

When I went back and compared the standard and ai versions of your Bf109G-6 Yellow 6, I finally figured this out. Seeing the additional pylon in the Clean loadout, I went and looked at the pylon and found out that all it did was to add weight.

Thank you for confirming for me; it now makes sense to me.
 
ndicki said:
It's a fake pylon at the 0,0,0 position (couldn't be bothered to work out the degree of fore-and-aft) which cannot be jettisoned, unlike a weapon. As it adds weight without fiddling with the flight dynamics - which is what others have often done - it seems to me to be the best solution. I didn't invent it - it's a MAW prototype mod which we finally decided not to use, possibly because it can get a bit out of control, having AI versions for each aircraft.
Click to expand...

Hi ndicki

I'm also interested in this subject.

Do you mean that the fake pylon weight is not included in ETO but it's incuded in MAW?

Is the fake pylon visible?

Cheers

vonOben
 
Hi Nigel1 As with Per, I am interested in the idea, in my case NJ fighters. If one uses a null pylon, would one just change the weight depending on the type of ac?
 
mongoose said:
Hi Nigel1 As with Per, I am interested in the idea, in my case NJ fighters. If one uses a null pylon, would one just change the weight depending on the type of ac?
Click to expand...

When flying a twin engine fighter, espacially NJG heavy ones, AI is unable to shot down an unsecorted and undefended bomber that don't make any evasive actions. So if you add extra weights, it will be worse.

Personnally, when I fly a RAF heavy bomber at night, the only enemy aircrafts that can appear are single engine fighters. This is not realistic because only a very few NJG's were equipped with them but, missions are much more challenging and immersive.
 
Loic yr point taken. I just change the "sniper effects' on the twin engine AIs and use my own spawns only. Useful info though for Pat's BoB and other fighter engagements.
 
vonOben said:
Hi ndicki

I'm also interested in this subject.

Do you mean that the fake pylon weight is not included in ETO but it's incuded in MAW?

Is the fake pylon visible?

Cheers

vonOben
Click to expand...

I've been thinking some more about this and a few more questions came up:

* What is de benefit using pylons instead of increasing the empty_weight in the AI cfg-files - which is the way it has been done in a "Empty weight" mod for OFF?

* If you use the pylon idea how does that effect your squadron AI's in a campaign? Do they get pylons but you don't?

Cheers

vonOben
 
vonOben said:
I've been thinking some more about this and a few more questions came up:

* What is de benefit using pylons instead of increasing the empty_weight in the AI cfg-files - which is the way it has been done in a "Empty weight" mod for OFF?

* If you use the pylon idea how does that effect your squadron AI's in a campaign? Do they get pylons but you don't?

Cheers

vonOben
Click to expand...

I have no idea what the fake pylon is actually included in as a direct-install package. If it was included with MAW, then it'll be included with ETO since as far as I can tell all the MAW files were simply taken over by ETO in any case. As for example the engine sounds, weapons, etc.

No idea if there is any benefit to using one system rather than the other. I simply use the one I know better. The pylon is invisible and cannot be dropped.

It is up to you/the aircraft developer to decide whether or not to apply this system to your aircraft - some may not need it, such as the night fighters you mentioned. But when a Bf110 can outfly a single-seater for example, there is clearly a problem. Do bear in mind that some of the aircraft used as night fighters, especially by the Germans, were not exactly models of high-performance...

It doesn't affect your squadron's AIs at all, because your squadron will be flying the aircraft you fly, regardless. That means that your squadron will have to fly the player version. That cannot be helped as the game engine does this automatically. It will however, if used correctly, ensure that all the other AI aircraft have the added weight of the crew and fuel, etc.
 
Thanks ndick, much appreciated info! :)

I did as KellyB wrote "compared the standard and ai versions of your Bf109G-6 Yellow 6" to check how you did it and started by downloading DL_Bf109g-6_JG101.zip.

From DL_109g6_101.xdp

<Loadouts>
<Loadout Name="Clean"/>
<Loadout Name="(1)300l Drop Tank">
<Hardpoint ID="0" PylonType="dr_109g6_pylon" PayloadType="AvHistory_gr_109_tank_300L" Quantity="1"/>
</Loadout>
</Loadouts>

From AI_109g6_101.xdp

<Loadouts>
<Loadout Name="Clean">
<Hardpoint ID="0" PylonType="750_pylon_null" PayloadType=""/>
</Loadout>
<Loadout Name="(1)300l Drop Tank" MissionType="Escort,CAP,Intercept,Sweep,Nothing,Bomber_Intercept">
<Hardpoint ID="0" PylonType="dr_109g6_pylon_750" PayloadType="AvHistory_gr_109_tank_300L" Quantity="1"/>
</Loadout>
</Loadouts>

The difference is this row:

<Hardpoint ID="0" PylonType="750_pylon_null" PayloadType=""/>

But where is the weight coming from??? :confused:

Cheers

vonOben
 
Look in your pylons folder and find the xdp file for the pylon in question. Open it up, and you'll see!

Category="weapon" Country="neutral" Mass="750"></General>
 
Hi ndicki

Yes I thought it would be something like that, but I searched my ETO folder for 750_pylon_null but found nothing.
It was not included in the zip either, so where can I find this file?

Cheers

vonOben
 
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