• There seems to be an uptick in Political comments in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religious comments out of the forums.

    If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.

    Please note any post refering to a politician will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment among members. It is a poison to the community. We appreciate compliance with the rules.

    The Staff of SOH

  • Server side Maintenance is done. We still have an update to the forum software to run but that one will have to wait for a better time.

Aircrafts wanted

Of course I like! If you make them, I'll paint them, how's that? About four-five months work each seems to be about par for the course...
 
I agree with the others: you should try your hand at modeling!

There are plenty of good tutorials out there plus lots of folks here at the forum who can help you with advice. Don't worry about doing a virtual cockpit on your first go-round. You can just borrow one from an existing stock model (e.g. P-47, B-25).
 
Well, I see. I understood you.

I am going to try to create but it's going to need me at least 1 year and to arrive at your ankle it's going to take time to me.
I have to find the good software (GMax or other) with a french tutoriel.
May be Google SketchUp 7 ?

"I am a poor lonesome cowboy
and a long long way from home." View attachment 4884

Regards.
 
dancat said:
I really want a new IAR80!!...but I'll just make it
Click to expand...

Hope you finish the Hawk first though! Seriously though, Jon, don't you feel a bit like doing a Buffalo? Seems just the sort of thing you might do... LoL!
 
I think all of this is Wonderful. i'd love to see more American paint on these American Birds, you all seen to forget we had them first, and sent them to help save France..

But that was a good thing.. France is well worth saving..
Great wine and wonderful women..
Crazy drivers too..
LOL..
 
Actually, it's a moot point whether the USAAC had them first. The Boston was not ordered by the Americans until after the French order had been placed. The same is also true - though a bit more complex - for the GM-167 Maryland, which was in fact never used by the USAAC in any case. For the Hawk, you're right - it entered USAAC service in April 1938, one month before the French order, which had been held up by rather difficult negotiations about the cost, was placed. And it's a toss-up to say whether the French ordered the G-36 first, or the USN the F4F-3. The timelines are parallel, and as I can't find the precise contract dates...

And so on... So it isn't quite as clear-cut as one tends to think! Don't forget that the US government of the day firmly intended to stay out of the war, but to make as much money as possible out of it. And re-arming one's own forces (which were hopelessly inadequate, let that be said) at the expense of foreign contracts is not the way to do that when you do not as yet have excess manufacturing capacity. Suffice to say that the contracts were placed before war broke out, so it is not so much a case of helping France as doing the business.

I'm not sure that saving France was high on the priority list at this point... In 1939, nobody could have anticipated that Europe's largest and most powerful army would fold up like a house of cards.
 
Most of the businesses involved had been burned after WWI when because of political opportunism we labeled them war profiteers and fined them into oblivion. Recovering from that we then gave out military contracts that were too meager, diluted and unreliable to grow on. Shifting to growing their businesses through the civilian market, we busted them again through anti-trust actions. The net effect was that we had only a small fragmented industry to draw upon in the late 30s.

These early contracts were suddenly seen by our government as being vitally important to expanding the output capacity of the companies they'd spent decades squashing. Almost all of the revenue generated was put into building factory space and acquiring machines, not making money off the misfortunes of our friends. Without this it would have been closer to the mid-40s before we could have become the "Arsenal of Democracy".

Pratt & Whitney in particular was very sensitive to what was going to happen after the war and lead most of the other manufacturers in adopting a policy of open books, and cost plus fixed return pricing. Predictably our Congress once again started chasing after war profiteers even before the war ended but this time they were able to show that not only had their production costs steadily gone down, but so had their profits. Since the manufacturers still had to cover millions in infrastructure expansion debt, and had nothing left but worthless contracts suddenly cancelled by the end of the war the hearings ended quickly in late 1945.
 
No I don't live there..LOL..
But i spent enough time there as a young hobbit to realize(now) i should have married a french lady and lived happly ever after..
LOL..
As for america and the pre war(for Us) no one can doubt that without america
there is a very good chance all of europe would have fallen forever to the darkness that had invaded then..
And many of our allies (now) would still be speaking german..

Thank God, America didn't stay completely out of it even in 39-40-41, our help saved many lives and most likely because of american help..
You all are free....
How soon you forget it seems..

Our perhaps your misplaced pride will not allow the truth to live in all of this..

I am very grateful for the many americans that died and suffered that Europe was freed from the darkness.
And history has shown that America, did save the world by her actions like it or Not that is How it was and is..
Bravo.. to all who suffered and died for Your freedom..
And I am truly grateful that We americans did save you..

Hey i'd never got the chance to dance in the streets of Paris
if you had been allowed to Lose..
 
I haven't forgotten a thing. I'm just not going to romanticise it either...

Let's equally not forget that until after Germany declared war on the USA, American corporations continued to do business with those who came buying. Opel, for example, was the main supplier of medium-weight lorries to the German forces; a subsidiary of General Motors, the company which would supply medium-weight lorries to the US Army... Texaco was another, supplying oil to the Germans until the embargo came into force. Even then they sold some through Spain and Columbia...

That's just two which spring to mind.

They do not lessen the sacrifice made by millions of ordinary Americans, people whose names we will never know. To suggest that we are not grateful is absurd.

But it is equally absurd to suggest that the United States did all this for purely altruistic reasons.

Let us not forget that Britain, which did not benefit from Marshall Aid, finished paying off the debt to the USA only some five years ago. A debt which cost us our position in the world, our Empire and our prosperity. Meanwhile, the USA handed the Germans and the French, among others, the money which it had made out of the war...

It is always rather more complicated when you start scratching around a bit.

And as I said, that does not lessen the sacrifices made, individually and collectively, by millions of American citizens. That is not the same thing.
 
You are very correct in thinking that american industry, may not have cared for who won or lost(in 39-40-41), It for many companies was a way to make money...

But it all changed Dec.7th 41..

Many companies.. Who had started expanding, because of the pre war orders and profit.
suddenly found that they would not get as rich as they had hoped..
The goverment made sure to place limits on profit, and in a society where money is the driving force behind everything..(as it is everywhere)
That was a UnHeard of Move..

I have been pulling your chain a bit, on all of this..

Yes, as a american that has had the ability to walk the streets of Paris..
And stood at the graves of Americans who died over several generations fighting for and with Our allies there.
I am grateful for those in My life who are the Vets, and also to the truth that Europe is free..

And to me it is a point of HONOR AND DEDICATION to One's fellowman that Those Americans did this things.
For whatever the reasons..( Honor or Money) Americans did these things, Europe is free..
Thank God..

I will apolozie.. that i do enjoy pulling your string over this..

But as the Greatest Generation that I Grew up with always said and believed "America saved the World during WW2"..
I will agree with those that did these things without question..
If they say it was so , I believe them..

If it offends anyone, then I am Sorry..
For "their" (The Greatest Generation) truth of this, is what I accept as so..

If no one else but those who fought this war, Believe this,
That's okay too.

At least the "Greatest Generation" believed They saved The World and were willing to suffer and Die doing it..

Yes some Americans believe We saved The World Once..
And I believe they are RIGHT..
And Thank God they did "Save the World" then.

Or there would be little chance I would have ever had seeing Paris, in the beauty of a French day in Peace..a generation later..

To Me the price americans paid in saving the World was well worth it..
A great investment for the future..As american business would say..
LOL..
 
Chain pulled.

There is one thought though that I'd like to leave you with; while those Americans concerned can be proud of what they did, and those who came after can be proud of what their predecessors did, don't be so proud that you end up implying that the efforts of others were of but little consequence. When you insist so vocally on the American contribution to WW2 (which did not have much impact until the end of 1942, be honest), you unwittingly give the impression that the sacrifices made by others - the British Empire and the Soviet Union, just for starters - were not instrumental or important in winning the war.

There is a great deal to be said here. Admittedly, the 8th Army at the Battle of El Alamein was largely equipped with American Grant and Sherman tanks, and the Desert Air Force with Kittyhawks and Bostons, but they were bought from the Americans, and cost little in terms of American lives. The same goes for the American weapons used by the British in Northern Europe; and there were not that many of them, either. The RAF did not like American aircraft much, with one or two exceptions, and sent most of those they did buy off to the Med. In Britain, there were Bostons, Mitchells and MkI and II Mustangs. And Hudsons, and that's pretty well it. They did not make up a significant part of the RAF's strength - a few squadrons of these or those, and that is all. The RAF did not like Fortresses, Liberators, Lightnings, Thunderbolts or any of the mythical American aircraft that spring to mind. The reasons why are obvious, and have nothing whatsoever to do with chauvinism.

On land, there is much the same story; the American equipment used by the British Army tided it over during 1942-43, but that's really all. The Sherman, for example, was largely replaced in NWE armoured divisions before D-Day.

So we have the British Empire, with the Soviets and the Free Forces - Poles, Czechs, Dutch, French, Belgians and so on - who not only held the Germans and contained them, but also - and here is my point about Alamein - began to push them back. The War turned before the Americans began shooting. It turned I fully admit because of the help supplied by the Americans in terms of weapons and hardware which we bought and paid for, but those weapons were served in the West and in Africa by British, Canadian, Australian, South African, Rhodesian, New Zealand, and Indian soldiers, sailors and airmen.

At the same time, Stalingrad put an end to Hitler's eastern adventures.

All this took place before US Forces had had the opportunity to fire a shot in anger, and that is why I do get rather annoyed when I hear as I do, especially living in France, that the Americans did all the work, took all the casualties and deserve all the credit. They do not; they deserve their fair share, no more and no less, because to give them more than that removes it from those others who stood alone against the might of the Nazi armed forces - stood alone and won.

On a more personal note, you might understand better if I tell you that my father served in RAF Bomber Command. I will not give you the attrition rate amongst bomber crews; you can look that up for yourself. It's easier to say simply that out of the thirty-odd men in his SFTS in Canada, two survived the war.

Now you can perhaps see better why a great many of the Empire and European Allies get a little hot under the collar when the Americans sound as though they're trying to claim all the credit.

Just pulling your string, too...
 
ok this is not about
US vs Europe
or vice versa
as far as i can recall
that was a war in the 1700's
good people lost there lives
from many nations
in WW2
doing there job
its been how many years?
H
 
Hi Henry.

Interesting point to step in, isn't it? When the Americans arrogate to themselves the glory of winning the war, saving the free world and being the bastion of the American way of life here in Europe, that's fine, but when one of us starts to suggest that one way or another we were actually not doing that badly by ourselves once we'd started to get our act together, then it's time to stop...

OK, so I'll stop right there.
 
ndicki said:
Hi Henry.

Interesting point to step in, isn't it? When the Americans arrogate to themselves the glory of winning the war, saving the free world and being the bastion of the American way of life here in Europe, that's fine, but when one of us starts to suggest that one way or another we were actually not doing that badly by ourselves once we'd started to get our act together, then it's time to stop...

OK, so I'll stop right there.
Click to expand...
would we have won without them?
you and I do not have the answer
and really a mute point
its called history
H
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top