Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Interesting show on the tele - the bounties appear to be quite high...
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Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.
'Airplane Repo'
- Thread starter Panther_99FS
- Start date
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Skyhawk_310R
Charter Member
Unfortunately, this is another in a bad line of so-called "reality" TV programs that are really just highly scripted poor entertainment shows. The way to repossess an airplane in the United States is not to send some lying and conniving goon squad to a business or airport to seize the plane. Instead, you petition a court to put a lien on the plane and then you go to the local law enforcement agency and they appear and put a notice of lien on the aircraft and with a valid court order, the law enforcement agency will ground the plane, usually by slapping a police notice on the airplane with clear order to avoid trespass. Essentially, local law enforcement can make it a crime if the original owner tries to take the airplane to a different location. It would essentially be a violation of court order resulting in the issuance of a bench warrant of arrest to the guilty party.
Then, you get a civil court to hear the case and the court awards ownership of the airplane to the victorious party in the civil suit.
Once the court awards ownership rights it becomes a matter of securing the maintenance logs and flying the airplane away. And without the histrionics, you can take your time to even inspect the aircraft to confirm airworthiness, which is always a smart idea for an airplane you're not sure of. Kicking the tires and lighting the fire to getaway quick is a sure invitation to some nasty outcomes.
The actual repossession act is truly nothing more than safely flying the airplane to the rightful owner. Local law enforcement can escort the repo team to the airport to ensure security. Law enforcement isn't exactly in the business of wanting such "drama" of misunderstanding. If I saw a bunch of nuts running around the airport like these people do on their commercials I'd call law enforcement immediately thinking someone is trying to steal an airplane.
Truth is the vast majority (something like 90%) of actual aircraft repossessions are voluntary where the owner gives the keys to the lien holder. There is no reason for any drama. The majority of what companies like this one in the show (owned by a dude named Nick Popovich) is simply go to the airport with the keys already in hand, and safely fly the airplane to the point of intended sale by the owning bank. Only in the other 10% of cases do courts get involved. And like I said, in those cases, in the United States at least (and I'm sure most everywhere else also) with paper in hand of a court repossession order, it is simply a matter of going to the local sheriff's department, showing the papers, and then with a deputy as escort, go to the airport and fly the plane away.
There are some nations where it is a wild west affair, with corrupt businesses in cahoots with corrupt governments. In those cases, such aircraft repossessions operate outside the cooperation of local law enforcement and courts. That is where you can see legitimate danger and the cost of repossessions are huge. This is the dirty little secret of Popovich's actual business (the real actions and not the hokey TV actions carried out and filmed on US airports). What they really do, and why they get paid a lot of money, is assemble an international repossession team.
Ken
Then, you get a civil court to hear the case and the court awards ownership of the airplane to the victorious party in the civil suit.
Once the court awards ownership rights it becomes a matter of securing the maintenance logs and flying the airplane away. And without the histrionics, you can take your time to even inspect the aircraft to confirm airworthiness, which is always a smart idea for an airplane you're not sure of. Kicking the tires and lighting the fire to getaway quick is a sure invitation to some nasty outcomes.
The actual repossession act is truly nothing more than safely flying the airplane to the rightful owner. Local law enforcement can escort the repo team to the airport to ensure security. Law enforcement isn't exactly in the business of wanting such "drama" of misunderstanding. If I saw a bunch of nuts running around the airport like these people do on their commercials I'd call law enforcement immediately thinking someone is trying to steal an airplane.
Truth is the vast majority (something like 90%) of actual aircraft repossessions are voluntary where the owner gives the keys to the lien holder. There is no reason for any drama. The majority of what companies like this one in the show (owned by a dude named Nick Popovich) is simply go to the airport with the keys already in hand, and safely fly the airplane to the point of intended sale by the owning bank. Only in the other 10% of cases do courts get involved. And like I said, in those cases, in the United States at least (and I'm sure most everywhere else also) with paper in hand of a court repossession order, it is simply a matter of going to the local sheriff's department, showing the papers, and then with a deputy as escort, go to the airport and fly the plane away.
There are some nations where it is a wild west affair, with corrupt businesses in cahoots with corrupt governments. In those cases, such aircraft repossessions operate outside the cooperation of local law enforcement and courts. That is where you can see legitimate danger and the cost of repossessions are huge. This is the dirty little secret of Popovich's actual business (the real actions and not the hokey TV actions carried out and filmed on US airports). What they really do, and why they get paid a lot of money, is assemble an international repossession team.
Ken
CWOJackson
Charter Member
I know this is a "reality TV show", so much of it is staged, but...how can they get away with entering an airport without permission and physically breaking into hangers (not owned by the aircraft owner) while attempting to "legally" repo an aircraft?
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
The one episode that I watched tonight said that one of the repo guys was a 15yr veteran...
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Skyhawk_310R
Charter Member
BTW: I wanted to mention something else about Popovich. He's lucky he didn't get shot to death in Haiti, not by an irate airplane owner, but rather by the Haitian military! He went with his crew on a nighttime raid at a Haitian airport without notification of local law enforcement. Now, in fairness, with Baby Doc Duvalier being in power at the time, perhaps that was a smart move. But, the plan went awry when someone did contact the law and reported a jet being stolen by terrorists. Now, what is the Haitian military supposed to do?
So, they arrived on scene as the jet was taxiing and fired warning shots to get the jet to stop. Popovich stopped the jet and shut down the engines. But, that's when he doubled down on stupid! Rather than act really cool and calmly he instead decided to shove one of the Haitian soldiers! He was arrested, jailed, and had a heck of a time getting home safely. Fortunately for him, that was about the time Duvalier was being overthrown.
Still, if he did such a thing at a US airport and then shoved a cop, he'd have gotten the same treatment, and likely a felony assault and battery conviction for shoving a cop in the line of duty!
Ken
So, they arrived on scene as the jet was taxiing and fired warning shots to get the jet to stop. Popovich stopped the jet and shut down the engines. But, that's when he doubled down on stupid! Rather than act really cool and calmly he instead decided to shove one of the Haitian soldiers! He was arrested, jailed, and had a heck of a time getting home safely. Fortunately for him, that was about the time Duvalier was being overthrown.
Still, if he did such a thing at a US airport and then shoved a cop, he'd have gotten the same treatment, and likely a felony assault and battery conviction for shoving a cop in the line of duty!
Ken
Skyhawk_310R
Charter Member
That's just it, he can't. Before a repossession, the courts issue a legally binding repossession order. Then, you just show up at a US airport with the paperwork in hand, and the FBO (or airport manager) cooperates. The only time law enforcement is even needed is in the extremely rare instances where it is anticipated some owner will try to do something stupid. As a matter of fact, if he trespassed onto an airport, he could still be arrested for such illegal trespass. If he broke into a hangar owned by the airport, he could be cited for that also.
The other key thing is that it isn't merely the airplane. It's almost equally important to secure the aircraft's maintenance logs. Without those, the plane's value is terribly reduced. So, with law enforcement and airport authority cooperation (which is always given in the US and likely any other nation our members here hail from) it isn't a rush under duress operation.
Ken
Skyhawk_310R
Charter Member
If you mean can you get the TV production company to spill the beans on this? No, I doubt you could do that.
But, consider that major airports in the US, including general aviation airports like North Las Vegas where I based my Skyhawk for several years, even legitimate airplane owners have to obtain credentials to walk on the parking ramp. Even smaller airports like Crestview, Florida (also where I once based my Skyhawk) it is tighter than you might think. Early one night shortly after I based my plane there, I decided to go flying one night. The FBO was closed, so I just parked my car and walked to my plane. Soon after getting on the ramp, I heard a voice yell out, "Hey, what are you doing!"
It was the owner of the FBO on scene late at night. Of course soon as I explained who I was, and with him knowing my plane had arrived a few days ago, he let me on my way. But, make no mistake, had I not been the owner, he would have called the sheriff and I'd have been in trouble.
At Portales, where I base my 310R and Skyhawk, there is a chain link fence surrounding the airport and a gate with a code given to the owners. There are plenty of no trespassing signs affixed to the fences and believe me, with the sheriff's department literally being just up the road leading to the airport gate, anyone dumb enough to try to illegally gain access to the ramp could be arrested first before questions are asked.
If a repossession action took place at Portales, the company would contact the airport manager and solicit cooperation and simply go out with him in broad daylight, and the manager would use his master key to open the hangar padlock.
Remember, an illegal trespass on an airport is technically a federal crime and the FBI might take custody of the case, especially likely to happen in cases involving planned theft of an aircraft, which is always treated as a federal crime.
Ken
Bushpounder
SOH-CM-2026
This show is simply full of it. I watched it about two months ago. The pilot who was also doing the narration at that time was saying things that were just not true about multi-engine operations. As a pilot, myself and other pilots pick up on BS like that very easily. He broke into a hangar to get the plane, which where I come from is trespassing. Being it was documented so well, the show's director basically filmed the state's evidence for his prosecution. What a crock. It does beat a Sponge Bob marathon, but not by much.
Don
Don
CWOJackson
Charter Member
The episode I watched had a disclaimer at the end along the lines that some scenes were reenactments, etc.
Skyhawk_310R
Charter Member
Hey, I like Sponge Bob! I had a hoot watching the cartoon with my kids back when they were young. They are way too old to watch it now, and consequently I haven't watched it in a long time either. Just reading that brought back memories of sitting with the kids and watching it. Back in the day when I used to take my kids canoeing on East Bay in Florida, my youngest had a Patrick Starfish toy and I mounted it to the bow of the canoe like a figurehead!
Getting back to this fraud of a show again, one commercial had the narrator talking about the crosswinds with the wind sock blowing straight down the pipe of the runway! Like Bushpounder said, real world pilots pick up quickly on that nonsense.
The odds of a private citizen outrightly owning a hangar at a public airport is very low, almost zero. So, when someone breaks into a hangar, he's breaking into government owned property, normally county owned. You think some goon squad is really going to take a pair of bolt cutters to a county-owned hangar padlock when all he's got to do is show the airport manager the repossession papers and ask him to use his master key to open it up for them?
Ken
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
I think the parts of ex-spouses wanting to get even & therefore helping the repo folks is very real....
srgalahad
Charter Member 2022
I apologize!
We got to see this bit of tripe last year in Canada (we get a lot of the crap, perhaps as a benign test market, but still first). For all of the above obvious reasons I didn't post a 'heads-up'.
I should have posted a Class One Airsickness Bag warning.
Mea Culpa
We got to see this bit of tripe last year in Canada (we get a lot of the crap, perhaps as a benign test market, but still first). For all of the above obvious reasons I didn't post a 'heads-up'.
I should have posted a Class One Airsickness Bag warning.
Mea Culpa
Gdavis101
Charter Member
You can tell so much of it is staged, I get a kick out of the guy that does repos with the ex bounty hunter.. They go into a hanger and ask a guy if he has seen a Cessna Citation (I think) then asks for bolt cutters??? Then the knot hole bounty hunter beats on the lock box with the bolt cutters, you would think the guy that they asked to borrow the bolt cutters from would question who they are before giving them anything. I love the term "reality" tv. I miss shows like Ice Pilots and Flying Wild Alaska..
Toastmaker
Charter Member 2016
I've been really disappointed to see a previously quality programmer - Discovery Channel - put on such garbage as "Amish Mafia" and these false "reality" shows. The entire premise of a reality show is to trade on the gullibility of the viewership.
Can it get any more embarrassing for us that this country actually has a supporting viewership for "Honey Bo Bo" ??!!
Can it get any more embarrassing for us that this country actually has a supporting viewership for "Honey Bo Bo" ??!!
Skyhawk_310R
Charter Member
I've been really disappointed to see a previously quality programmer - Discovery Channel - put on such garbage as "Amish Mafia" and these false "reality" shows. The entire premise of a reality show is to trade on the gullibility of the viewership.
Can it get any more embarrassing for us that this country actually has a supporting viewership for "Honey Bo Bo" ??!!
What he said!