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Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.
Attention all DC-3 fans !
- Thread starter Javis
- Start date
BendyFlyer
Charter Member
Thanks mucho for this information, BF, very welcome!
Can i ask you for your thoughts about what it might've looked like inside the cockpit of a DC-3 at night, during, say, the 1950's ?.... As far as gauges lighting is concerned only fluorescent dials ? ( until 'eyebrows' came about ? See http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforu...ll-DC-3-fans-!&p=939819&viewfull=1#post939819 ) Would there have been an option to change dome lights and/or individual light sources f.i between red and white ? If also available when (and why) would fluorescent lights have been used ? They usually appear as tubes situated at the Captain's and Co-Pilots sides and are also referred to in DC-3/C-47 hand books. ( a typical WWII type of light maybe ?... Not used in civil aircraft ?... )
Very interested in anything you might be able to shine your light on.
Javis, and others sorry for delay. Cockpit lighting in this vintage aircraft was an overhead red light or several, could be placed under the windscreen dashboard or above the eye level on the pillar or corner areas of the cockpit, generally they were a three setting light, so you could rotate a screen or filter on the light and go all red or all white or red and white. A lot look like you small bayonet style bed or study light. Some had more permanent mounting along the back of the panel. I can say one thing it they were poorly lit and while you could get a good coverage it was generally a red flood light affect. From the fifties on individual lit instrument lights began to be the norm and this was accelerated by the use of electrically powered instruments and standardisation of look so you began to see back lit lighting and variations in lighting, like the white storm lighting on the main panel and then separate lights for the centre pedestal overhead etc. The DC-3 had a poorly lit panel and cockpit lighting was a thing that some people like up high or down low, so the answer is also that they all had rheostats fitted so you could vary the lighting intensity up or down to suit your eyes and likes but it was poor. I guess the main thing to remember about aircraft like the DC-3 was that they were designed and introduced when electrical systems were quite simple and generators did not produce great outputs and it was WWII that really spurred the development and use of full electrical systems via advances in electrical circuitry and controls, motors etc. A really good comparison is the C-97 which was a basically all complex eletrical systems.
cavaricooper
SOH-CM-2023
Jan-
I was just re-reading (whilst smiling) this thread... A plea for weathered but NOT ABUSED texturing once more, please! If I were fortunate enough to own a C-47 for 50+ years, I would lavish the most care possible (remember the airliner B&W photo?) on her, while UTILIZING her as much as possible.
So- I look forward to your "weathering" but urge a modicum of restraint
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Hope YOU and YOURS are well- your creation most certainly IS
Best- Carl
I was just re-reading (whilst smiling) this thread... A plea for weathered but NOT ABUSED texturing once more, please! If I were fortunate enough to own a C-47 for 50+ years, I would lavish the most care possible (remember the airliner B&W photo?) on her, while UTILIZING her as much as possible.
So- I look forward to your "weathering" but urge a modicum of restraint
.Hope YOU and YOURS are well- your creation most certainly IS
Best- Carl
mikeyankee
Members +
Jan-
I was just re-reading (whilst smiling) this thread... A plea for weathered but NOT ABUSED texturing once more, please! If I were fortunate enough to own a C-47 for 50+ years, I would lavish the most care possible (remember the airliner B&W photo?) on her, while UTILIZING her as much as possible.
So- I look forward to your "weathering" but urge a modicum of restraint
Hope YOU and YOURS are well- your creation most certainly IS
Best- Carl
Couldn't agree more. A good dose of weathering (perhaps a bit more than a modicum) avoids that 'cartoon' look most of us hate - I think the MAAM DC3 has this (and many other things) just about right.
Thanks for the compliments, guys. Should go to Robert this time around. As always highly appreciated. 
@ Bendyflyer: Thanks a lot for your elaborate explanation, sir ! Various white and red lighting it will be ! One personal question if i may : do you have the A2A B-17 by any chance ?.... Amongst other innovative, never seen before (atleast not by me...;-), features it has a wonderful simulation of a typical fluorescent lighting system. I would love to have that in our VVC as well. Is there any comment you might have on that ? Thanks mucho again !
@ Carl: no worries, mate, i was just talking about our brand new ADF radio. Will not be 'abused' at all. Just a few paintchips here and there and a general 'at work' appearance. ' A modicum of restraint' .... I learn something everyday, you know, my native language is not English. How this would sound in dutch ? : " 'n ietsie pietsie terughoudendheid "
Cheers,
Jan
@ Bendyflyer: Thanks a lot for your elaborate explanation, sir ! Various white and red lighting it will be ! One personal question if i may : do you have the A2A B-17 by any chance ?.... Amongst other innovative, never seen before (atleast not by me...;-), features it has a wonderful simulation of a typical fluorescent lighting system. I would love to have that in our VVC as well. Is there any comment you might have on that ? Thanks mucho again !
@ Carl: no worries, mate, i was just talking about our brand new ADF radio. Will not be 'abused' at all. Just a few paintchips here and there and a general 'at work' appearance. ' A modicum of restraint' .... I learn something everyday, you know, my native language is not English. How this would sound in dutch ? : " 'n ietsie pietsie terughoudendheid "
Cheers,
Jan
And now for something *not so* completely different :
Being a flightsimmer as well as a Dakota afficionado and if you examine this photo with a bit of interest, what would you say might well stand out particularly here ?.... :
It took quite a while before it occured to me so i have the utmost respect for anybody who notices it 'on the fly' so to speak. ( i might have to add that i have been looking at a gazillion DC-3/C-47 cockpit photos in the last couple of years/months/weeks/days/hours/minutes and there simply is no other Overhead similar to this one (not that there's a DC-3/C-47 cockpit that looks exactly like another in the first place of course ))
So, what do you guys say ?....
Being a flightsimmer as well as a Dakota afficionado and if you examine this photo with a bit of interest, what would you say might well stand out particularly here ?.... :
It took quite a while before it occured to me so i have the utmost respect for anybody who notices it 'on the fly' so to speak. ( i might have to add that i have been looking at a gazillion DC-3/C-47 cockpit photos in the last couple of years/months/weeks/days/hours/minutes and there simply is no other Overhead similar to this one (not that there's a DC-3/C-47 cockpit that looks exactly like another in the first place of course ))
So, what do you guys say ?....
cavaricooper
SOH-CM-2023
Jan-
Is it the old Comms stuck at the ends....? Most overheads do without those there, it would seem. Only the retrofitted new radios occasionally make it up there... Usually....?
The bungee seems much more common in comparison
Best- C
Is it the old Comms stuck at the ends....? Most overheads do without those there, it would seem. Only the retrofitted new radios occasionally make it up there... Usually....?
The bungee seems much more common in comparison
Best- C
BendyFlyer
Charter Member
Thanks for the compliments, guys. Should go to Robert this time around. As always highly appreciated.
@ Bendyflyer: Thanks a lot for your elaborate explanation, sir ! Various white and red lighting it will be ! One personal question if i may : do you have the A2A B-17 by any chance ?.... Amongst other innovative, never seen before (atleast not by me...;-), features it has a wonderful simulation of a typical fluorescent lighting system. I would love to have that in our VVC as well. Is there any comment you might have on that ? Thanks mucho again !
Cheers,
Jan
Sorry no I don't have the A2A B-17. I have some of their stuff but not that one. If I could add one comment, and it is a hunch based on having flown a number of aircraft who had their genesis before
WWII and after was that English aircraft manufacturers had a thing for RED cockpit lighting but the Americans did not and did both red and white. DC-3 or C-47 was not much better but remember you always had additional lighting via the compass, autopilot (sperry), radios and a few other gauges. Red was supposed to assist with overall night vision accuity or something but it turned out to be incorrect and you could see a red lit cockpit at night just as good as a white lit one so it did not hide you either! End of the day it really was about the journey that aviation was on and still on, discovering what worked and what did not! And we all might miss the sound of a round motor but none of us miss a leaky cockpit on a winters night or day either.
Ian Warren
Charter Member
JK we didn't have to require a bungy to keep the locks on the emergency hatch, required a spanner handle to get them to move mind you its been sitting in the museum since 1977.
I myself certainly needed a bit more time and atleast a fourth and fifth look before it dawned on me but lets let the cat out of the back. Carl and Alan you are close but not close enough. You should've put your minds together...
That panel in the middle just forward of the Emergency Exit sign is a very rare combination of 2 ADF radios. Didn't see anything like that in the afore mentioned gazillion of other Dakota cockpit photos. I did however have a vague remembrance of having seen it before.... Then the quarter fell :
How about that, éh ?....
The duo ADF panel in the middle and two early nav/com radios at each side. It all fits perfectly.
Anybody here remembers Trev 'DC-3' Morson ? Way back then we used to be FS DC-3 buddies but Trev moved on and flies a real Dakota now for many years already. I believe it was DC-3 Ozark Air Lines N763A that he learned to fly the DC-3 in and that's exactly the cockpit where this particular Overhead photo was taken. So if we put two and two together either the dev of the default DC-3 must have visited N763A for reference or Trev offered him to sent photos.
I have always wondered about this rather peculiar setup of the radios in the default DC-3. I think this has finally become clear now.
What this has been all about is that we now have a wonderful realistic looking 3D rendition of an AN/ARN-7 ADF radio for our VVC but no Nav/Com radios yet. I have spend hours and hours looking for info about this exact type that is used by N763A and thus also in the default DC-3 but without any significant result. On top of that Mike told me that he has no experience with coding this early type of nav/com radio and we cannot use the coding from the default DC-3 neither because that's all 2D.
Outcome is that we need to move forward a few years and use King KX-170A/B Nav/Com radios. I already have the code and unlike the early type in the N763A OH (i can't even find a name for this type. Closest i could find is Collins AN/ARN-14C ) info is available in abundance.
Anyway, i found the combination of the real radio set in the N763A cockpit and the FS default DC-3 rather remarkable, interesting and funny. Just thought i'd share that with you guys. ;-)
Btw, an elastic strap like that on the escape hatch handles is quite common. You can see it in many Dakota pits. Sometimes also used on both Yoke wheels when parked (i suppose to keep the ailerons from moving..) In a video i've seen it strapped onto the yoke wheels immidiately after landing...
Cheers,
Jan
That panel in the middle just forward of the Emergency Exit sign is a very rare combination of 2 ADF radios. Didn't see anything like that in the afore mentioned gazillion of other Dakota cockpit photos. I did however have a vague remembrance of having seen it before.... Then the quarter fell :
How about that, éh ?....
The duo ADF panel in the middle and two early nav/com radios at each side. It all fits perfectly.
Anybody here remembers Trev 'DC-3' Morson ? Way back then we used to be FS DC-3 buddies but Trev moved on and flies a real Dakota now for many years already. I believe it was DC-3 Ozark Air Lines N763A that he learned to fly the DC-3 in and that's exactly the cockpit where this particular Overhead photo was taken. So if we put two and two together either the dev of the default DC-3 must have visited N763A for reference or Trev offered him to sent photos.
I have always wondered about this rather peculiar setup of the radios in the default DC-3. I think this has finally become clear now.
What this has been all about is that we now have a wonderful realistic looking 3D rendition of an AN/ARN-7 ADF radio for our VVC but no Nav/Com radios yet. I have spend hours and hours looking for info about this exact type that is used by N763A and thus also in the default DC-3 but without any significant result. On top of that Mike told me that he has no experience with coding this early type of nav/com radio and we cannot use the coding from the default DC-3 neither because that's all 2D.
Outcome is that we need to move forward a few years and use King KX-170A/B Nav/Com radios. I already have the code and unlike the early type in the N763A OH (i can't even find a name for this type. Closest i could find is Collins AN/ARN-14C ) info is available in abundance.
Anyway, i found the combination of the real radio set in the N763A cockpit and the FS default DC-3 rather remarkable, interesting and funny. Just thought i'd share that with you guys. ;-)
Btw, an elastic strap like that on the escape hatch handles is quite common. You can see it in many Dakota pits. Sometimes also used on both Yoke wheels when parked (i suppose to keep the ailerons from moving..) In a video i've seen it strapped onto the yoke wheels immidiately after landing...
Cheers,
Jan
cavaricooper
SOH-CM-2023
Jan-
I do indeed "remember" Trev, and visit his site often (it being a treasure trove on DC-3 info). Now that you pointed it out, it seems so obvious... A shame that there are none available for you to incorporate in your VVC. There's just something about staying "in-period" I love. Glad your GPS will be pop-up though.... That way it can be completely out of sight when flying over Assam or Juno and Sword (no, no, not THAT Juno ).
Visit http://www.douglasdc3.com. A pretty sad story about the Ozark bird
Best- C
I do indeed "remember" Trev, and visit his site often (it being a treasure trove on DC-3 info). Now that you pointed it out, it seems so obvious... A shame that there are none available for you to incorporate in your VVC. There's just something about staying "in-period" I love. Glad your GPS will be pop-up though.... That way it can be completely out of sight when flying over Assam or Juno and Sword (no, no, not THAT Juno
).Visit http://www.douglasdc3.com. A pretty sad story about the Ozark bird
Best- C
Can't find it. Only a Mythbusters marathon.
Obie311
Charter Member
I never trust my Krauser panniers either. I have a web safety strap on each.
Alan_A
Charter Member
Now I know why that overhead looked familiar - I've been staring at it for the past year or so, ever since I installed the improvised VVC (described farther back in this thread, somewhere in the messages in the 500 series or thereabouts) to tide me over 'til Jan's is done.
I guess I was a bit thrown, though - not used to seeing it in three dimensions.
Looking forward to using the full-featured one that's in the works...
I guess I was a bit thrown, though - not used to seeing it in three dimensions.
Looking forward to using the full-featured one that's in the works...