Attention all skinners!

gecko

gecko

Charter Member
Bump mapping is coming to CFS3, courtesy of Ankor!:redfire: Bump mapping can be added to any aircraft by simply creating a new bump map texture and using the existing naming convention for that aircraft's files to associate it with that particular aircraft.

He has asked me to see if anyone would be interested in working up a quick one for any aircraft for initial testing. Any takers?

Also, this serves as a heads up that all your past and present projects would benefit immensely from going back and making bump maps to match the skins you've created.

For those who don't know what bump mapping is, it allows small details like rivets, panel lines, dents or places where metal skins flex between stringers to have the appearance of being 3D. We could also have awesome looking corrugated skin on the Ju 52 for instance.
 
Hi!
Thanks gecko for posting it here.

Sorry, I'm too busy today to explain all details.
FSX format is supported - it is common format for storing normals. For this test though a simple grayscale height map saved as bmp will do (I will convert it as needed).

You will be able to attach new texture to any model without editing its m3d by following a naming convention:
If main texture is called "spitfire_ixc_t.dds" the FSX style normal map should be called "spitfire_ixc_t.+nm2.dds". I will explain these codes later.
Additional texture can be applied to any m3d model, but NOT to the terrain or auto-generated scenery.
 
Thanks. Is this going to be implemented in a similar way to what was already done to simulate bump mapping? We need to watch out for Moire Patterns being created. For example, the current shader makes the JU52 skin corrugations look really bad when viewed from a glancing angle.
 
MajorMagee said:
Thanks. Is this going to be implemented in a similar way to what was already done to simulate bump mapping? We need to watch out for Moire Patterns being created. For example, the current shader makes the JU52 skin corrugations look really bad when viewed from a glancing angle.
Click to expand...

Moire patterns are very hard to avoid.
My shaders use anistropic filtering which makes textures sharper at glancing angles, and the stock CFS3 renderer just blurs textures in this case. Sharper textures naturally lead to moire effect.
However I believe it is also aggravated by how CFS3 creates composite textures (if you apply any paint scheme to them, or to show damage marks) - they don't have mipmaps even if the source dds had them. This causes additional shimmering.

I enabled automatic mipmap generation for ground textures in WOFF 2.0 and even then I still had to limit the anisotropic filtering there or the shimmering became unbearable.

Is there a way to get that JU52 for tests? Maybe I should enable those auto mipmaps everywhere, but I need to see if there is really a benefit.

This said, custom made normal maps should provide better quality than current color-difference ones. I still don't know to which extent though and that's why my humble request for a test sample still stands :)
 
I am a newbie relating to the graphical CFS3 enhancement (shader settings modding) and with a stuff available here I got (aside the nice shiny effect) also a strange airplane texture bump/normalmap effect which I dont like - I even noticed it doesnt make it from the "_s" texture (which I could accept yet), but from the "_t" texture. this makes my airplane insignias looking in a "3d" form, for example...
so any bit more serious solution would be welcome :)

as to the DDS mipmaps - it means CSF3 does not use them? I am creating my textures alwayas mipmapped for all games, except some full screen / 2D sprites (non CFS3 stuff related).
 
BorekS said:
airplane texture bump/normalmap effect which I dont like - I even noticed it doesnt make it from the "_s" texture (which I could accept yet), but from the "_t" texture. this makes my airplane insignias looking in a "3d" form, for example...
Click to expand...
Yep, this is the side effect of the existing algorithm.
This thread is about a new approach - the ability to provide a real normal map which should solve these "3D insignia" issues (of course if this new texture is provided).
However, I think you have an interesting idea - generate bump map from "_s" texture instead of "_t" if the former is available. It may indeed look better. I haven't looked into it before because WOFF doesn't use _s textures at all.

as to the DDS mipmaps - it means CSF3 does not use them? I am creating my textures alwayas mipmapped for all games, except some full screen / 2D sprites (non CFS3 stuff related).
Click to expand...
It does use them, but not in every case.
When you add an insignia to an aircraft CFS3 creates a new texture in memory, copies original skin into it and then draws the insignia on top of that. Then this new texture is used on aircraft's model. The problem is as far as I can tell that new texture doesn't have mipmaps.
I can enable DirectX feature allowing it to generate mipmaps automatically behind the scenes, but I'm not entirely sure it will help with aircraft skins.
 
I'm sending you a copy of the Ju 52 files so you can see the effect. Please let me know if it comes through okay.
 
When you add an insignia to an aircraft CFS3 creates a new texture in memory, copies original skin into it and then draws the insignia on top of that. Then this new texture is used on aircraft's model.
Click to expand...

thanks for the explanation how it works with the aircraft emblems and such similar stuff from the MOS files, AnKor - I was affraid of the game performance slowdown because of the layered texture source, but now I get it much better :)

well, I do not use such selectable MOS stuff sofar, all my needed markings are inpainted directly into the "t" texture. but I noticed some of the aircaft "s" specular map stuff made by other people or by microsoft (see me_262a_s.dds for example) contents the inpainted insignias, markings or such similar stuff from the "t" source... this is a bit unhappy solution because of the basic specular map logic itself (means basicaly white area is shiny, dark area is matt), I suppose.
I personally am creating specular maps like a "clean" body texture, which can work bit better with the actual shader mods. but if WOFF or so on doesnt use specular maps, I understand it needs the shader modding solve the another way... and the new "_nm2.dds" approach just could solve it all greately!



 
Like Borek, I don't use .mos overlays for the insignias either and the _s textures give specular shine in XP and Vista. This isn't supported in Win7 or 8.1 which don't support the old DX8 shaders needed by CFS3 for specular shine. I don't think many recent add-ons use the .mos overlay method at all.
 
So basically.

We're trying to incorporate something like this(JU52) in hopes of giving us something like this?(Ak74u)

Cause that seems fairly simple!

Minus the insignias and other details.

Note: the Ak74u is BF2, which is also having this breakthrough.
 

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How's this going? Do you still need a texture AnKor? I've installed a Normal plugin for Paint Dot Net so can produce textures if required.

This is the JU52, albeit downsized for forum posting.

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josepicos, Pat Pattle,
yes, this is what I need.

Can you upload a full uncompressed (i.e. not a JPG) version somewhere?
And if you have a grayscale (a heightmap) version it will also be useful to me.
Thanks!

MajorMagee,
I've looked at JU 52 model you've sent me and moire patterns are indeed quite prominent there. They aren't related to bump mapping though, they are result of sharper texture rendering with my shaders. I can't do much about them besides turning off anisotropic filtering. However, without AF some details (like markings on WWI planes in WOFF) become very blurred at glance angles. So I'm going to add an option into d3d8.ini to configure AF level to personal liking.
 
I found that deleting the mos file from the model reduces moire, but you will lose the damage textures!
 
I think MajorMagee has the right idea here of getting rid of the corrugation on the main texture, as the bump mapping will produce that effect dynamically. Having both at once will likely produce some very odd results.
 
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