Attention Col. Rami - Top Secret - Eyes only

[bearcat241]

Substitute a stock test model with full fuel and drop tanks, ala P-38, hitting all waypoints. Then test the same without the DT's to note differences in the load and consumption. If there's a bug in that soup as well, then its not the air file setup but some gremlin in the sim coding.


P.S. I don't know if CFS2 recognizes this "modern" section in the aircraft.cfg, but a lot of FS cfgs designed with Airwrench contain it:

[GeneralEngineData]
//0=Piston, 1=Jet, 2=None, 3=Helo-Turbine, 4=Rocket, 5=Turboprop
engine_type = 0
fuel_flow_scalar = 1
engine.0 = 0, 0, 0
min_throttle_limit=0.000000

Maybe if you can lower the flow scalar you might get better mileage. I'm thinking something around 0.75.

 

[Sarg Willy]

Settings Rami , what are you using ---Auto mixture --Realism -- auto fuel management --- ticked or blanc ?


Having mentioned Bismark,s stoped in the same place , Ck Situatio - defair -- bottom entree --TankSelector=All
and that all tank,s are 100 % full ??

 

[kelticheart]

Stefano,

Attached. I am using the drop tanks from Morton's AH Hurricane BoB pack.

Got it, I'll look at it and let you know. In the meantime, since I read BC's comments on your type of fuel switch choice, did you try managing each fuel tank separately via MAPE's fuel switches?

In all of my aircraft 2d panels I added a popup window switched on and off by the fuel icon from the stock Concorde gauge set. I then add to it a MAPE fuel switch for every fuel tank listed in the airfile, plus an "ALL" switch, for when I want to have a balanced weight management during long flights. Finally, a switch tied to a non-existent fuel tank (usually, "Center3") provides cutoff, since there's not a specific fuel cutoff switch in the Mape set.

For reading each fuel tank content, I collected all of the fuel gauges I could put my paws on. I found good ones for wing tanks, but I am not too satisfied with fuselage tank gauges and there aren't reliable auxiliary tank gauges that I could find. I place individual fuel tank gauges on the popup panel as well.

This is why, just like BC, I ALWAYS have a standard CFS2 cumulative fuel gauge on the 2d main panel, coupled with its F4F-4 low fuel warning light, which universally works best (and it's also programmable to light up at a set percentage, I set it at 25%), showing me total percentage of fuel on board, or in the droptanks, at any given time.

I always got a good fuel consumption monitoring with this system. I imagine I don't need to suggest to another experienced pilot the advantages of selecting manual fuel, fuel mixture and prop management. By using prop cruising hi-pitches to reduce rpm, lean out the fuel mixture as much as possible and reduce manifold pressure below the suggested cruise settings, one gets longer legs.

At the beginning of the Pacific war, Japanese Naval fighter pilots were masters in this low fuel consumption techniques, giving the impression to Allied observers that there were more Zeros in the theatre than there actually were, since the same planes were able to fly to further distances than expected.

Unfortunately, I think that slewing from waypoint to waypoint (X key) overrides manual fuel settings, shooting to hell any attempt to fine tune them. CFS2 in automatic fuel management is a fuel guzzler.

Cheers!
KH

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Hey guys,

I forced myself to take a twenty-four hour moratorium from this because I was really getting frustrated by this. I will look at it this evening with fresh eyes.

 

[kelticheart]

Good choice!

Hey guys,

I forced myself to take a twenty-four hour moratorium from this because I was really getting frustrated by this. I will look at it this evening with fresh eyes.

...and when all else fails, a new perspective is mandatory:

Cheers!
Stef

 

[Sarg Willy]

Attention col. Rami top secret ,, for your

ATTENTION COL. RAMI
TOP SECRET ,,
FOR YOUR EYES ONLY !!

Rami , regarding your unused fuel thread ,


Refueling Tank 1 has no adjustable dump ratio ,(CFO-Refuel)
Tank 1 will not refill in air -- verified JWB dump gauge
Above 5,000 Ft remaining tanks dump percentage
and empty + and refill Ok --
Using Unknown =0/1 has no known effect
on Tank 1

But electric pump will transfer rear to frt and
vis vrsa ( V )key -- (Shift + V) forward
(Control+V) backwards ---

Mopar tank select makes no difference --
Using Unknown=1 on tank 2 no diff --

Here.s the Kicker Tank 2 will refill
Tank 1 using toggle electric pump (V Key)
Shift fuel Forward key,s (Shift+V)
But will not pull from 3 tank or wing tank,s
Why -- ???
Everyone set,s tank 1 on O/1 = unknown
My Hurricane uses 1,2,3 tank,s, left wing ,right wing
for 135 gallon,s ,,

Set no 1 Tank to Unknown=4 and a curiouse thing happen,s
you dump fuel from one , no engine quite , Dump fuel from
No 2 tank , engine still running , Pulling fuel from
Wing tank,s , -- Dump fuel from wing tank,s --
and the engine stay,s running --Pulling from the
last tank 3 ---- ( with out using Mopar,s switch,s )
I would imagine if you select an empty tank , It will quite !
Using the JWB dump gauge , Is not changing Mopar,s Tank
Switch position , Still reading Tank 1
I guess in effect , the sim is reading 1rst tank + 4

-- On Manuel Fuel control -- Rami --

Look,s like you have to Use Unknown = the no of extra-tanks
in the air file or 6 with drop tank,s
In Tank 1,,
No 1 ,,
Unknown = 6
For my Hurricane + drop tank,s

If you look at the Cfg settings configuration file
you,ll find an entree for auto fuel management ,
does that over-ride manuel controls ??

So if you enable the key select for Auto fuel management ,
climb to altitude and before X = warp , turn on Auto
fuel management ,
may be another fix to your problem ??

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Sarg Willy,

I still haven't made sufficient progress on that. But again, I'll have to do something to get it working for a few missions. I think that deep down, using the stock P-38 Lightning file as a base has a lot to do with this.

 

[kelticheart]

Sarg Willy,

I still haven't made sufficient progress on that. But again, I'll have to do something to get it working for a few missions. I think that deep down, using the stock P-38 Lightning file as a base has a lot to do with this.

Rami,

why don't you ask Bearcat241 to step in with his vast experience and help tayloring a Flight Model specific for the Whirlwind? The practice of using a working FM from a stock aircraft for an addon is very diffused, yet I don't think Westland Whirlwinds flew like P-38 Lightnings.
The only thing they have in common is the fact they are both twin-engined.

I am sure Bearcat241 will be able to find what's wrong with it!

Cheers!
KH

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Rami,

why don't you ask Bearcat241 to step in with his vast experience and help tayloring a Flight Model specific for the Whirlwind? The practice of using a working FM from a stock aircraft for an addon is very diffused, yet I don't think Westland Whirlwinds flew like P-38 Lightnings.
The only thing they have in common is the fact they are both twin-engined.

I am sure Bearcat241 will be able to find what's wrong with it!

Cheers!
KH

Stefano,

I had a revelation this morning. I started going through Sopwith's site, because I thought that he had done a skin pack for this model. In the skin package are the original conversion files, which are far closer to the mark than the ones I was working with. I checked the fuel data with the number of fuel tanks, and made sure to include the drop tanks in the .dp file. I am in the process of testing right now. Stay tuned...

http://sopwithc.wikifoundry.com/page/Downloads+Page+8

 

[kelticheart]

Stefano,

I had a revelation this morning. I started going through Sopwith's site, because I thought that he had done a skin pack for this model. In the skin package are the original conversion files, which are far closer to the mark than the ones I was working with. I checked the fuel data with the number of fuel tanks, and made sure to include the drop tanks in the .dp file. I am in the process of testing right now. Stay tuned...

http://sopwithc.wikifoundry.com/page/Downloads+Page+8

Thanks! I should have it since I downloaded everything I could put my paws on over at SC's site, which, BTW, unfortunately I found just yesterday has several broken d/l links in the Stirling repaints area.

Do you happen to know if SC still maintains it, that I should send him a PM letting him know about the broken links? If he doesn't, it's probably time to launch another "preservation re-upload" drive!

Meanwhile, let me point this out to you:

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?89963-Something-you-really-oughta-see!

Cheers!
Stef

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Hi,

Well, I tried this, and had some interesting results. I had a pretty good idea of what to eliminate from the aircraft.cfg to get rid of the FS9 elements, and she did start and fly. However, the performance is way too high...and she burns through fuel like my students through a box of donuts. Taking off from Prestwick, I'd be out of fuel by the time I reached the Clyde.

Scaling back the power to make her more reasonable prevented the engines from starting. Would someone please check my mods verses the original files from Sopwith's package and see where I went awry?

 

[Sarg Willy]

I,d be happy to give it a try Rami , are you expecting to warp with it ? If so how,s about a copy of the mission warp and distance you were thinking to run ,

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Sarg Willy,

I'm trying for three things.

1) Adequate performance adjustments in the air and .cfg file so that she will fly "by the numbers."

2) To eliminate a lot of the FS9 "junk" from the aircraft.cfg file which overrides information in the .air file.

3) To use all her fuel tanks during warp, including the drop tanks, so as to extend her range.

 

[Sarg Willy]

Roger that , Rami , I,m half way their ,,,

 

[Sarg Willy]

Hi ya Rami , no,s 2+3 are no problem , It,s the fly by numbers , that,s not helping ,, Unlike the Avro Arrow , no stat,s found for fuel tank numbers , Unit history , Exciter field , escort Bleinheims , , but turn for home near Antwerp , ?? other qoutes,, Range = under 300 miles ,, I know your not happy with fuel consumption , , As is your tankage capacity is streching to 450 miles , May be some one else can find the tankage numbers ??

Mean while I,ll apply the vise grip,s to the fuel line and see if I can melt
3 or 4 piston,s

 

[Sarg Willy]

Oct-11-14

checking Rami Westland Whirrwind --
Made a mission file

Parram,s Leiston airfield --
Start up take off --
Climb to 1500 ft ,
follow mission beacon line
climbing to approx 3,000 ft ,
20 mile marker is a warp point ,
wait till the becon line moves
to the new heading -( PAUSE KEY )

Pull up your JWB tank gauge ,
Check remaining fuel left ,
center tank 1

This gives a precice start and end point
for 20 mile fuel comparrison cks,

Testing Rami,s conversion P-38 for the W_Whi

Throttle % Tank 1 Mix % prop % Cu In Disp Trim Pitch

NO-1
max % 30-gal 10 % 3,050 150 -0.78
20-mil---14.9 (LEFT)
15.1 Gallons Used

NO-2
90 % 30-gal 20 % 2,000 150 -0.78
17.90 (LEFT)
12.10 Gallons Used

NO-3
90% 30-gal 20 % 1,900 120 <<<< -0.78
20.30 (LEFT)
9.70 Gallons Used

NO-4 30-gal 25-30% 1,800 120 ++ Cruise Trim =( -1.09 )
80% 23.2 (LEFT)
6.80 Gallons Used


Although speed is now down to 135 Kts --- cruise --
the milage has climbed substanceually -- Given that the sim does use
temp factors , cold start up is probably , the worst fuel usage ,

There fore high altitude hot engine temp,s on cruise may generate
percentage increase on a twenty mile check ,,

 

[kelticheart]

Wow!

Sarg, you must have had a test pilot among in your ancestors! I rarely saw such detailed test results, it seems like anything you post comes from spending hours with stop watches and calculators in front of CFS2!

Anyway, I could not find something specifically wrong in the flight model attached by Rami. However, getting rid of FS9 leftover statements in the airfile is always good. I do it routinely before installing any new conversion.

Cheers!
KH

 

[Blood_Hawk23]

Sarg, Your hired. I think you need a promotion as well.

I'm following this closely. I have a Russian fighter to mod and some of this might help.

Keep us posted.

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Sarg,

Thank you. I have taken vigorous notes on this, and will report back. Right now I am just trying to finish up several projects, and it may take a little while to get back to this!

 

[Sarg Willy]

Under stood Col. Rami ,, not finished testing yet , A few more thing,s to investigate , I,m happy that , two results , have come to light , that I hadn,t known about before ,