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Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.
bad day at daytona
- Thread starter Daveroo
- Start date
Ferry_vO
Retired SOH Administrator
http://www.flickr.com/photos/helenthedestroyer/5922762117/
Still goes....
Seems these days the spectators are more likely to get hurt in a crash than the drivers.. At least the fences prevented a repeat of Le Mans '55..
Still goes....
Seems these days the spectators are more likely to get hurt in a crash than the drivers.. At least the fences prevented a repeat of Le Mans '55..
Cazzie
SOH-CM-2024
As horrible as it was, what do you want to bet it will bring people to the track and also increase the TV audience today for the 500. Sad, but that's one reason people go to races, to get some excitement out of their everyday boring lives. I like the Gen-6 cars and the racing with them, more like the old days when I went to NASCAR races regularly. Not so the Nationwide, still too much like the COT, have to tandem-draft and we know the mayhem and boredom of this from the COT. Even though the front ends try to resemble the new pony cars, it's a sad try, everything else looks like an underpowered COT. The Gen-6 cars have it close and I do like the racing with them. You can draft, but you cannot fool around. Long green flag runs can split the field, nice, like days of yore. But you can about forget the sling-shot move on the final lap, it appears in front with a pusher is the place to be.
Racing is dangerous, that is why we go see it. So is baseball, I watched a man toted off on a stretcher from a Rookie League game after taking a beaner from a hard lined foul ball. Winter has been boring in southside VA, the racing I am seeing stirs things up a bit. So they have a big wreck and people get hurt, anything else new. Maybe I am a sick-o, but I am loving it. Racing has returned.
Caz
Racing is dangerous, that is why we go see it. So is baseball, I watched a man toted off on a stretcher from a Rookie League game after taking a beaner from a hard lined foul ball. Winter has been boring in southside VA, the racing I am seeing stirs things up a bit. So they have a big wreck and people get hurt, anything else new. Maybe I am a sick-o, but I am loving it. Racing has returned.
Caz
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Now, if those bloody ridiculous restrictor plates were removed I'd probably come back to watching more than three or four races each year.
I agree with you 100%.
Remove the restrictor plates at Daytona & Talledega and 2 things would occur:
1) Drivers would have to lift (novel concept to some)
2) You would get separation (a la' Michigan)
But these fans don't want any separation.....:isadizzy:
Hey All,
A new year in NASCAR and still the same old arguments. So once again I say you can NEVER recapture the past - never.
Innovate away and run what ya brung is dead - forever. That spirit and the environment in which it thrived no longer exists - legal liability and sheer financial costs (especially trying to update tracks) have decided that that is the new reality. The cars can easily be made too fast to be safe. With the emphasis on safety in car manufacture thanks to Dale Earnhardt senior the drivers need not have any fear what so ever only the fans need fear for their lives. Look at yesterday's Nationwide race - 28 fans hurt 14 to the hospital no driver with any harm what-so-ever. No driver needs to lift or be afraid of a crash anymore - they will be fine. Are some of you going to argue that the cars are too safe - that a healthy dose of driver fear would be a good thing - separate men from boys so to speak? I thought not.
200 mph is the speed limit - period. Now how to keep it that way and make the racing enjoyable.
Now on to my gripe...
Yesterday i was incredibly disappointed that no driver wanted the race bad enough to team up with Travis Pastrana. He drove a smart race - clean car and a fast car at the end and yet everybody avoided him like the plague - that was disgusting. I'm not arguing because I'm a Travis Pastrana fan as I know nothing much about him except that he drove an exceptional race yesterday and deserved a shot at playing the "end of the race" game with the big boys.
Todays 500 - same with Danica - in her post race interview she was afraid to get out of line as she was afraid nobody would go with her. My God - pole sitter - clean fast car at the end and can't take a chance. I fully understand the "ol boys club" mentality but this is Daytona and it is the 500. I was pretty disgusted at both of these incidents.
Yes I was really happy Jimmie won - as I always will be but I don't like seeing deserving drivers getting such a raw deal. Even Juan Pablo of the "I side draft jet dryers" fame gets better treatment than that.
-Ed-
A new year in NASCAR and still the same old arguments. So once again I say you can NEVER recapture the past - never.
Innovate away and run what ya brung is dead - forever. That spirit and the environment in which it thrived no longer exists - legal liability and sheer financial costs (especially trying to update tracks) have decided that that is the new reality. The cars can easily be made too fast to be safe. With the emphasis on safety in car manufacture thanks to Dale Earnhardt senior the drivers need not have any fear what so ever only the fans need fear for their lives. Look at yesterday's Nationwide race - 28 fans hurt 14 to the hospital no driver with any harm what-so-ever. No driver needs to lift or be afraid of a crash anymore - they will be fine. Are some of you going to argue that the cars are too safe - that a healthy dose of driver fear would be a good thing - separate men from boys so to speak? I thought not.
200 mph is the speed limit - period. Now how to keep it that way and make the racing enjoyable.
Now on to my gripe...
Yesterday i was incredibly disappointed that no driver wanted the race bad enough to team up with Travis Pastrana. He drove a smart race - clean car and a fast car at the end and yet everybody avoided him like the plague - that was disgusting. I'm not arguing because I'm a Travis Pastrana fan as I know nothing much about him except that he drove an exceptional race yesterday and deserved a shot at playing the "end of the race" game with the big boys.
Todays 500 - same with Danica - in her post race interview she was afraid to get out of line as she was afraid nobody would go with her. My God - pole sitter - clean fast car at the end and can't take a chance. I fully understand the "ol boys club" mentality but this is Daytona and it is the 500. I was pretty disgusted at both of these incidents.
Yes I was really happy Jimmie won - as I always will be but I don't like seeing deserving drivers getting such a raw deal. Even Juan Pablo of the "I side draft jet dryers" fame gets better treatment than that.
-Ed-
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
That's why I said remove the restrictor plates at Daytona & Talledega....
The cars are not too safe but without fear, drivers will never lift - this is what got Wheldon....(flat out/no lifting - pack racing)
wombat666
Administrator
"Are some of you going to argue that the cars are too safe - that a healthy dose of driver fear would be a good thing - separate men from boys so to speak?"
"The cars are not too safe but without fear, drivers will never lift."
This applies to most forms of Motor Sport these days, not just to NASCAR.
I discovered that I was not immortal the hard way early in 1970, after completing two tours in SEA and coming home for a few months virtually without a scratch.
Of course, being young and aggressive and 'Immortal' I drove very much with that mindset until I received a big wakeup call.
The greatest jolt came after I was flipped and looked at the roll bar!!
Before we had the car rebuilt at the Elfin factory I'd purchased my very first Bell Full Face helmet and during the build the roll bar was constructed out of 'Unobtanium' and strengthened to withstand any load, in fact it was over-strength if anything!! Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
If anything I became a much better driver, because I knew that I wasn't immortal but if I planned a race before I departed the grid I'd drive with my brain in gear and not go all out thinking 'I'll go around, over or under the opposition because nothing can hurt me".
A healthy dose of 'Fear' is good for all drivers who have the brains to take it on board and use it to their advantage.
View attachment 81826
View attachment 81827
"The cars are not too safe but without fear, drivers will never lift."
This applies to most forms of Motor Sport these days, not just to NASCAR.
I discovered that I was not immortal the hard way early in 1970, after completing two tours in SEA and coming home for a few months virtually without a scratch.
Of course, being young and aggressive and 'Immortal' I drove very much with that mindset until I received a big wakeup call.
The greatest jolt came after I was flipped and looked at the roll bar!!
Before we had the car rebuilt at the Elfin factory I'd purchased my very first Bell Full Face helmet and during the build the roll bar was constructed out of 'Unobtanium' and strengthened to withstand any load, in fact it was over-strength if anything!! Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
If anything I became a much better driver, because I knew that I wasn't immortal but if I planned a race before I departed the grid I'd drive with my brain in gear and not go all out thinking 'I'll go around, over or under the opposition because nothing can hurt me".
A healthy dose of 'Fear' is good for all drivers who have the brains to take it on board and use it to their advantage.
View attachment 81826
View attachment 81827
Hey All,
Them were the olden days AND a different kind of racing.
Just look at what NASCAR cars can take coupled with Hans devices and so on and everybody just goes an has a beer. Unless you are in the stands. Fire is about the only really big fear and they are probably working on that.
Is the lack of fear that cars enable good?
-Ed-
Them were the olden days AND a different kind of racing.
Just look at what NASCAR cars can take coupled with Hans devices and so on and everybody just goes an has a beer. Unless you are in the stands. Fire is about the only really big fear and they are probably working on that.
Is the lack of fear that cars enable good?
-Ed-
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Personally,
I feel that less fear translates to less respect....
wombat666
Administrator
As I attempted to point out, it's Global, be it Formula 1 and the associated Junior Formulas, Touring Cars (BTCC and ETC!
), Sports and GT, Porsche Cup, NASCAR, GrandAm.............. and the way the younger drivers behave in the V8 Series down here is appalling.Even the Historic and Classic series, which are really supposed to be in the tradition of a 'Club Event', are becoming unpleasant.
As for the various TARGA rounds, not only do you need a 'Factory' supported car, the professional drivers have taken over and they want to win by any means.
Remind me again where the phrase 'Second Place is First Loser' originated.
A little dose of 'Fear' can generate 'Respect', no argument about it.
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
If you so choose, look at the video here
-> http://www.petapixel.com/2013/02/25/crash-video-controversy-puts-nascar-copyright-grab-in-spotlight/
-> http://www.petapixel.com/2013/02/25/crash-video-controversy-puts-nascar-copyright-grab-in-spotlight/
Hey All,
Once again you can NEVER go back in history.
The death of Dale Earnhardt spawned a whole new effort at NASCAR safety - cars, walls, hans, etc. Do drivers like it? Of course - it is safer and they can take many more chances without fear of bodily harm. Does it make for better more exciting and enjoyable racing? Maybe/probably. But look at it the other way now - if you enter racing and NASCAR knowingly held back on safety so that it would teach you respect and you get harmed or killed the courts will make you and your family millionaires real fast. Can you ever have too much safety? In a court of law - the answer is no. And the courts decide not racing bodies.
So once again you can never go back to the past and a different mindset but you can complain.
-Ed-
Once again you can NEVER go back in history.
The death of Dale Earnhardt spawned a whole new effort at NASCAR safety - cars, walls, hans, etc. Do drivers like it? Of course - it is safer and they can take many more chances without fear of bodily harm. Does it make for better more exciting and enjoyable racing? Maybe/probably. But look at it the other way now - if you enter racing and NASCAR knowingly held back on safety so that it would teach you respect and you get harmed or killed the courts will make you and your family millionaires real fast. Can you ever have too much safety? In a court of law - the answer is no. And the courts decide not racing bodies.
So once again you can never go back to the past and a different mindset but you can complain.
-Ed-
wombat666
Administrator
I've been thinking about how NASCAR regulates the cars now that they are out of the Technical Stone Age with the use of EFI.
We call Daytona a 'Restrictor Plate' race, but I doubt that is correct from an engineering point of view.
Are the cars running with limited airflow to the EFI or is some form of electrical or mechanical restriction in force.
Just wondering???
We call Daytona a 'Restrictor Plate' race, but I doubt that is correct from an engineering point of view.
Are the cars running with limited airflow to the EFI or is some form of electrical or mechanical restriction in force.
Just wondering???
As far as I know, NASCAR requires throttle body fuel injection on the the Sprint Cup Series cars, so I'd say they are just past stone age when it comes to fuel delivery systems. This also means that there is still a restrictor plate located between the intake manifold and the TBFI unit.
wombat666
Administrator
OK, thanks stansdds, that (more or less) makes sense.
Decades ago the Formula 3 and similar Junior classes had the airflow cut back by a restricted inlet, needless to say, certain people found ways around the system.
So I can still say "Get rid of those bloody restrictor plates!"
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
No one here has said this - and no one here has advocated for this (to include myself). What has been said is the fear can mean greater respect but NO ONE has said to decrease safety.
Me personally,
I'm in favor of putting a max effort in for safety but removing the restrictor plates - this will create separation (like Michigan) and allow drivers to drive away from dangerous situations. As long as you have pack racing, the danger will always be higher - regardless of speed.
Case in point is our own 55-75mph highways. When an accident occurs in high (pack) traffic, the carnage is always greater. When there is less traffic (greater separation), the carnage is lower.