Blackbird/Milviz Freebies: Phantom F-4J (only) issues

Manschy

Manschy

SOH-CM-2023
Hi,

there are so many different issues with the freebies. So maybe it is a good idea to list them and user can post any thoughts or solutions.
To post comparable issues with other Freebies aircraft, please simply start another topic with an appropriate aircraft. What do you think?

If you agree, I will start.

1. Phantom F-4J (installation without virus scanner and advance pack additionally installed...):
All levers and switches seem to work also with sound - except for the engine start lever, which is not movable to left or right, only touchable by hand icon.
Due to this, the engines don't start at my place.
Only when I use "Y" for slew mode and rise the Phantom a little, then switch to sim, the Phantom stays with engines on. Not very comfortable...
Furthermore:
Holy cow, the F-4J is almost not flyable in comparison to the F-4E. Much too nervous, too hard rate of climb, directly after take-off. If there is no corrective, the jet does not make fun so far.

Conclusion:
- Because of the click sound and moving levers and switches I assume the F-4J is truly 64-bit capable.
- Only the engine selection lever does not work
- Almost not flyable, way too sensitive at all joystick inputs

How about your experiences, please?
 
I installed both F4's & both work in FSXA.

I had the same problem with the starter and config screen not working on another PC due to VC runtime Microsoft files not being up to date.

Try updating VC runtime, I think the latest version is 2015-2022.

Sorry just noticed this was P3d section, might be still worth checking though.
 
Yes, that was what was causing the same problem in FSX with the F4 & Sabre in FSX with one of my computers.

No functioning switches and shift +2 configuration panel displaying quickly and turning off.

Did you run the MVAMS configurator for the aircraft first?
 
Yes, did several experiments with that. First of all, I set it to cold and dark, keyboard configuration with ctrl+E for engine start, ctrl+T for engine stop and set it as default. So after nothing happened after using the engine selection lever, I changed the entries to ready to fly inside MVAMS.
That done, the F-4J appears correctly on the runway, with running engines.
In the meantime, I exchanged the cockpit with the cockpit of the F-4E, in hopes that now the startup procedure was as successful as all my startups with the F-4E variant. But it failed.
So I load a saved flight with the F-4E in cold and dark which always starts fine.
Then I changed the vehicle to the F-4J and tried it again, but no success. I can't find the culprit between the engine selection lever and the start of the engines.
In addition to it, the keyboard configuration ctrl+E doesn't work either, but ctrl+T for engine stop does.
So the function seems to fail (engine selection lever and ctrl+E), which means there is a problem with the execution of the start command. Weird....

Does anybody get the beast flying smooth? I am a professing fan of Royal Air Force aircraft, so I would like beeing able to fly this great F-4J aircraft sometime...
 
I have the F4J running pretty smooth in v5.3 (RAF junkie here too :) )Auto-start from MVAMSSelect the three stab switches and the AFCS switch on the left console before take-off, also a bit of FWD trim.Currently trying to refuel her from a Victor K2 using Lorbys payload manager...needs to be stable for that!
 
keithb77 said:
Auto-start from MVAMSSelect the three stab switches and the AFCS switch on the left console before take-off, also a bit of FWD trim.
Click to expand...

Will give it a try, thank you. Yes, the FWD trim is required, I also need this for the F-4E, otherwise she will become a Starfighter :biggrin-new:
 
Another problem with the F4J is that I can't map the speed-brakes to the slider on my X52 throttle...this is in my prepar3d settings and works for all other aircraft, but Milviz override the mappings for the Phantom with those set through MVAMS, which won't map the throttle slider.Any thoughts?Also the Instructor mode doesn't seem to work, though maybe I've done something wrong for that.
 
Manschy said:
Hi,

there are so many different issues with the freebies. So maybe it is a good idea to list them and user can post any thoughts or solutions.
To post comparable issues with other Freebies aircraft, please simply start another topic with an appropriate aircraft. What do you think?

If you agree, I will start.

1. Phantom F-4J (installation without virus scanner and advance pack additionally installed...):
All levers and switches seem to work also with sound - except for the engine start lever, which is not movable to left or right, only touchable by hand icon.
Due to this, the engines don't start at my place.
Only when I use "Y" for slew mode and rise the Phantom a little, then switch to sim, the Phantom stays with engines on. Not very comfortable...
Furthermore:
Holy cow, the F-4J is almost not flyable in comparison to the F-4E. Much too nervous, too hard rate of climb, directly after take-off. If there is no corrective, the jet does not make fun so far.

Conclusion:
- Because of the click sound and moving levers and switches I assume the F-4J is truly 64-bit capable.
- Only the engine selection lever does not work
- Almost not flyable, way too sensitive at all joystick inputs

How about your experiences, please?
Click to expand...

Left console engage the AFCS. Will be flyable.
 
Strictly AFCS is the auto-pilot and shouldn't be needed to maintain controlled flight... it CAN be used when hand-flying but there is a half-second delay between pilot input and a response from the control surfaces.

The three STAB Aug switches should be enough for normal flying but Milviz have made it very tricky to fly.

On take-off the CofG is far back because of all the fuel, hence you need a lot of FWD trim. An aircraft with CofG too far back will always be lumpy to fly, even with trim.
I suspect we are mostly flying with a lot of fuel and if we burnt off 45 minutes worth before landing it might be easier!

Putting in rear trim as the gear and flaps go down helps a lot when landing (on the real Phantom too) but I've still not managed a successful carrier trap

There is a very useful guide to flying the Phantom from the USAF Test Pilots School here - https://www.f4phantom.com/docs/F4_Phantom_Guide.pdf

The AFCS can hold heading/altitude/pitch/roll if set right.
 
Phantom Phrustrations

Glad someone started a thread just on the Milviz Phantom(s).

I am giving up on this one. Just as I did on the SSW F-4. I made the mistake of shelling out for the SSW PBR version and one of their nice (looking) carriers. I could not launch from their carriers or anyone else's and their support said it was just me so never got it resolved.

I had at first all sorts of CTD's with the Milviz bird in P3D4. Think even by pressing Slew - the Y key - would crash the sim. Several uninstalls/reinstalls later I find whether I set cold/dark or ready to fly, no engines start. Then start the GPU, master switches, generators, bleed air (all per the ADV manual) start switches move but no engines turn. So have to then do Ctrl + E to get the engines moving and remember to wait to + 10% rpm to avoid an engine fire.

Then the FDE. It's way to fast at e.g., only 10-20% throttle. The roll rate is silly and pitch almost normal. A bit too much of a handful to bother.

Going back to the tried and tested AS/Virtavia bird - which unlike the aforementioned pricey payware Phantoms - even has PBR thanks to kind souls' here!
 
I have to say my experience differs...I have all 3 and tried them again over the last two days

The cockpit in the Virtavia is somewhat unfortunate, especially in VR where all the gauges float 2 inches above the panel and their bezels, I appreciate it's an old product given to the community and then extended which is all very commendable but ....
And the thrust is WAY more ridiculous than the other two...from stationary at the end of the Valley runway I as doing mach 2 when I hit the small hill north of the field.

The Milviz Phantom has a beautiful cockpit, in VR it could almost be real, just a few sharp edges and slightly blurred textures. I spend 99.9% of my time in the VC so that's important.
And from a dead start at Valley it's moving at 650 Kts in full burner banking around the island in perfect control.
So long as the Stab switches are on, it's kept in trim and the speeds closely monitored then it flies just right.
Keeping in trim is the big problem, tried lots of different trim solutions (hat switch, button, wheel) and none work well or even consistently.
Thinking of looking for a magic trim gauge which I remember from way back - just click a button and it trims out the current stick pressure - which is sort of what I do all the time in R/L gliding.
Though I suspect it might not work with the Milviz as their external ADV model probably ignores P3D trim.

And I'll admit to having set 'Start Running' in MVAMS which works fine, I have once managed a cold start but rarely have the time for cold and dark stuff.
Jets won't run at 20% and roll rate seems OK to me...maybe a throttle / joystick calibration issue?

The SWS Phantom is in the middle, the cockpit isn't bad but still a toy in comparison. Flight model is OK but falls apart particularly at low speed - never got it onto the carrier alive.

Best thing about the SWS Phantom is the bundled Virtual LSO software and Coral Sea carrier, they are WELL worth persevering with - the LSO guides you in (calls WAVE OFF a lot) and grades your landings, you get a log with details and graphical recordings of your approaches. It's all so good I was encouraged to try and watch the Top Gun movie again...managed another 10 minutes...
Only problem is the Milviz Phantom doesn't log landings - I get the approach cues, call the ball etc but the trap is never logged, probably because of the external ADV model again :(
So all of my logged carrier traps are using the IFE Skyhawk, another newly 'freed' product, lovely to fly and with a jewel of a cockpit in VR.
 
Helpful feedback - thanks. I will keep trying with the Milviz F-4J as it has the most potential.

I could not follow easily the manual(s). One just has shutdown procedures and drag chute instructions - and the cockpit layout diagrams are unreadable.. Another has an "ACM" and loadout manager that doesn't look like anything I downloaded. The short ADV "manual" just kind of describes features, rather than step by step procedures. The NATOPS manual of course is the real thing, but long and detailed. Doesn't seem to be a Quick Start guide.

Also, not really clear if the ADV model is an entirely standalone aircraft replacing the earlier version or a patch to add over it? I haven't found anything about what you and others refer to as the stab switch - a flight stability/control system I haven't figured out. Not sure where to find these basics.
 
The Stab switches are on the AFCS panel behind the throttle on the left console, one each for pitch, yaw and bank, all 3 should be forward.
Item 19 page 12 of the F4S&J UG PDF
Then at least 2 units down trim (there is an indicator dial nears the flaps / U/C indicators, Item 15 page 12 of the F4S&J UG PDF)
If I'm going to be doing circuits I'll reduce the fuel load to 8 or 9000 lbs using the P3D fuel menu
Full burner take-off but reduce power to military at 300 Kts and retrim and go play.

For landing power back to 80% or less and speed-brakes down to 250 Kts
Gear down, brakes in, retrim, flaps down, RETRIM, probably more power
Base and final turn 180 KTS retrim and then use the AOA indicators for on-speed landing

Yes the manuals are all over the place - they were so proud that you could use the NATOPS so they expect you to - but it's a lot of reading.

The ADV is a patch, install the base first (if you have tacpac install that next) then the AV patch.
If the patch isn't last it will always CTD on engine start.
 
Keith, thank you so much for this help.

Means:
- So few of us are reading the manuals as needed...
- The Milviz F-4 are close to reality - more than Ctrl+ something.....

Means2:

Practise, practise, practise...
 
No problem :)

My trim issues were partly having multiple buttons configured, with just the hat switch it's OK
Still can't map the speedbrakes to a slider so it's all or nothing :(

Have got the vLSO working with the Milviz Phantom so I'm logging carrier landings now :) :)
Next step is to add HMS Victorious as an extra carrier...
 
Manschy said:
Keith, thank you so much for this help.

Means:
- So few of us are reading the manuals as needed...
- The Milviz F-4 are close to reality - more than Ctrl+ something.....

Means2:

Practise, practise, practise...
Click to expand...

Having had the pleasure of testing it I can say that this is the case. I had the same issues until I realized that you have to keep trimming the plane all the time.

Hint: It can also get out of a spin by deploying the brake chute.
 
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