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C-47 update

As someone who has made flight models and aircraft for FS, and this is something I would like to see if MS is going to tackle with their new sim, I would like a way to change the flight responses based on the end users joy-stick/settings. I know back when we were developing planes, Ed Walters and myself would go back and forth on the FDE's, because how it felt to me and how it felt to him, based on the given response rates (roll rate, etc) were completely different for us because we were using quite different joysticks. I've often thought that there should be some sort of gauge in the VC that would adjust the rates based on the joystick one is using. If I ever start developing again, that's something I plan to look at, as I modify the FDE of almost every aircraft I have, since I use a Warthog HOTAS with a stick extension and rudder pedals. Needless to say, the stick extension has removed many of the pitch PIO's I used to get in some planes.

I only bring this up, because I find the experience from many end users about various aircraft FDE's can differ greatly based on the flight controls they're using versus the flight controls used to develop the FDE. I don't think many end users realize how important that is and why there may be discrepancies between the various responses of users with regard to the FDE. In any actual aircraft built, the flight controls themselves are integral to the flight control and response of the aircraft, so even a pilot who has many hours on a specific aircraft won't get the same responses unless their sim J/S is set up to correctly replicate what was in the actual aircraft.

I should also add that my degree is in Aeronautical Engineering, and while I had some flight controls classes, my major was in aerodynamics and my minor was in propulsion. I just posted this as this as something I wanted people to think about with regard to the development of FDEs. Hopefully some of you will find it useful as a sim PSA. YMMV.

Ken
 
Really good point. I've just gotten back to the Majestic Q400 Pro, which has not only the external flight model but higher-frequency control input. Combine that with the high frame rates, and with high-end hardware, and it's an exceptionally smooth experience - emphasis on "exceptionally," because most setups aren't like that.

What makes what you're proposing (automatic calibration between the controller and the sim) difficult in practice is that the hardware controller is just one variable (admittedly a big one) in the chain - the software would also have to take into account some of the things noted above, like input frequency and frame rate, plus others, basically the type of connection (USB 3.0 or 2.0 or some other interface), basically the whole chain by which the controller's input gets to the sim aircraft controls.

If I recall correctly, A2A created a "by hand" solution for the 172, and maybe some of their other GAs, where you could manually adjust the way the control responsiveness. And of course there's FSUIPC, where, if you've got the paid version, you can create customized response curves by aircraft or by type.

The problem with both of those is that whatever solution a user creates is going to be subjective, so it'd still be hard to say if it's right or not.

To your point about the new sim - if the need to make it X-Box compatible leads to more standarized hardware -then an automated solution could work. You'd be taking a lot of variables out of the chain.

Could be one more reason to look forward to FS 2020.
 
Having enough power in your rig is vital for a worthwhile simulation experience, especially now that we have big rate hogs like complex sceneries and so on. No amount of tweaking by an FD author is going to make a scrap of difference if the computer isn't up to the task and the joystick is not calibrated. Smooth flight will come with enough memory and a decent video card. I use a $30 joystick but I make sure it's calibrated properly. What I would like to find is a good quality stick that gives me 2 separate throttle sliders that doesn't need a second mortgage.

Other factors affecting FDs in the sim are realism settings. I believe most developers including us develop for realism sliders set to max. Back that off and the FDs will change.

:engel016:
 
The CH Quad is a pretty good inexpensive option for dual throttles (and some other axes besides) if you don't mind the very short throws.

I seem to remember a discussion a few years ago on the A2A forums - it was pinned for a while, maybe it still is - where they discovered that a large number of their customers were using the FSX/P3D default controller sensitivity settings, which put the sensitivity and null zone axes right in the middle of the scale. Of course, a linear response would require the sensitivity slider full right and the null zone full left. So people were complaining about aircraft responsiveness mainly because they had their controllers mis-set. A developer that gets that kind of complaint would have to ask the users a whole series of questions about the response curve in addition to all the stuff noted above - controller stiffness and throw, connection speed, frame rate, etc. You can't safely assume that any user has things set up the right way.
 
Xc-47

banjoman1960 said:
this is the C47 i miss all Time in P3Dv4,and i like to pay for this:encouragement:
Click to expand...
I fly with the VA DC3 Airways and in earlier FS versions we used this plane in some of our multi flight sessions and had a ball with it. Now most of us are using P3D v4.5 and the plane will not work there. It sure would be nice to have this plane avavilable for use in P3D V4. Just sayin'.
Howard
 
Controllers

Alan_A said:
The CH Quad is a pretty good inexpensive option for dual throttles (and some other axes besides) if you don't mind the very short throws.

I seem to remember a discussion a few years ago on the A2A forums - it was pinned for a while, maybe it still is - where they discovered that a large number of their customers were using the FSX/P3D default controller sensitivity settings, which put the sensitivity and null zone axes right in the middle of the scale. Of course, a linear response would require the sensitivity slider full right and the null zone full left. So people were complaining about aircraft responsiveness mainly because they had their controllers mis-set. A developer that gets that kind of complaint would have to ask the users a whole series of questions about the response curve in addition to all the stuff noted above - controller stiffness and throw, connection speed, frame rate, etc. You can't safely assume that any user has things set up the right way.
Click to expand...

I use the registered version of FSUIPC with P3D V4.5 and am quite happy with it. I have the CH Products yoke, pedals, and throttle quadrant, and a Logitech Freedom 2.4 stick, and setup each plane in FSUIPC using the Specific Aircraft feature and can tell you that every plane is different, but by using this feature you can get pretty much just what you might think the plane should fell like. I can only reference the real planes I have flown, but I have 5 of them in the sim and using FSUIPC, they are all different from each other, as it should be. If you only use the adjustment available in the sim and not FSUIPC, you are missing a lot.
Howard :gameon:
 
From his FB:





Btw.

According roadmap of AH:

"Several projects are nearing completion and release:
Douglas C-47/DC-3 will be out in July"

I suppose we will wait a little longer for this bird.
 
Brilliant to see her in civvies... THAT’S what’s been missing all along... fantastic! There have been so many of these old girls plodding for so long relentlessly, bringing health and commerce to the far corners of the world. To finally have her out of khaki is really the bees knees.

There are mounds of adventure awaiting... from the bush to Burma, from Rangoon to Paho and all points betwixt.

Ta- C
 
cavaricooper
Brilliant to see her in civvies... THAT’S what’s been missing all along... fantastic! There have been so many of these old girls plodding for so long relentlessly, bringing health and commerce to the far corners of the world. To finally have her out of khaki is really the bees knees.

There are mounds of adventure awaiting... from the bush to Burma, from Rangoon to Paho and all points betwixt.

Ta- C​
Click to expand...

I hope we recive the paintkit also. :mixed-smiley-010:
 
I'm interested in this new C-47, and I thank AH for all the work they must be putting into it.

Right now the only non-A2A aircraft I fly in P3D v4.5 is the MJ C-47. I'll buy this new C-47 if it turns out to be a significant improvement over my trusty MJ C-47 v 3.14, but if I do, I'll always miss Ernie and Nancy.

Seeya
ATB
 
PaintKit

OK I suppose it's time to ask that question...

What are people expecting to see in a PBR paintkit? Bearing in mind that there will be NO conventional materials in this model.:engel016:
 
Baz-

Whilst discussing various support sundries, could I please advocate releasing with a PFPX profile? That would be splendid when setting up short quick “sundowner runs” at the end of a long day from the salt mines :).

Ta- C
 
Nothing right now C. We have completed the modeling and mapping on the Wright (right hand pax door) version and are in the middle of a massive PBR session. :engel016:
 
Work continuing is good news indeed... this will be a day 1 purchase for me (and I suspect many here at SOH)... looking forward to her!

Best- Carl
 
Wright-o, here's a couple of in-flight shots of the Wright Cyclone-powered DC-3 in American Airlines livery, complete with the streamlined faring over the windshield de-icing pipes . Getting a believable polish on the alloy is definitely a challenge in PBR.

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Brilliant! Pun fully intended :). The Cyclones are a great addition to the sim fleet!

Now, looking forward to you prattling on about the Pratts ;).

C
 
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