Capt Sim releasing B52H Exterior only this month

[Francois]

open mouth....insert foot.......

You sir, had better check your facts first before making inane statements like that.

-G-

 

[Prowler1111]

As a matter of fact, it´s not the 1st time CS has pull this, remember the 2 seat Hornet? yup no vc(sure they did the acceleration hornet) but it came with a VC-less F-117, and AFAIk it did pretty good out there, so the gamble (for them) has payed off more than once...

Prowler

 

[centuryseries]

You know...just scrolling through this thread...all you naysayers, to a man (I'm pretty sure):
NONE of you have contributed to this year's bandwidth drive!
What's the matter with you?
Do you have so little trust, that you think Ickie will take your money and run off with it???

It's called 'choice'.

 

[IanP]

As a matter of fact, it´s not the 1st time CS has pull this, remember the 2 seat Hornet? yup no vc(sure they did the acceleration hornet) but it came with a VC-less F-117, and AFAIk it did pretty good out there, so the gamble (for them) has payed off more than once...

Prowler

Yeah, but that's because people paid for - and got - the F/A-18D. Does anyone actually ever load the F117?

 

[Wing_Z]

Everyone's been whickering on about how they wouldn't pay out money for an unfinished product...
I'm not quite sure what the point is of announcing this in a discussion forum - the developer would know whether there was take-up or not.
So if it's not to trumpet this to the world, for some feeling of solidarity with others that didn't do something, it comes down to a matter of principle, right?

If you go to the store and buy a popsicle, it better be finished and taste good, right?
This is how capitalism works, and don't mess with it!
Right?

Well, there are some alternatives.

Unlike the Popsicle Delivery Contract, the flightsim community is a closed, interactive one.
Many developers are among us in the forums, as users themselves, and listening to the group.
There is much less of an "Us" and "Them" than out in the Popsicle Commercial world.
There is often a chance that, given some encouragement, something great could emerge, that otherwise would be stillborn.

So why not some financial encouragement?
If a project is going to die in the water because the money has dried up, why not give it a little nudge, who knows, it may be one of the best products yet!
Think of it as Venture Capital.

In some of the posts, it was implied that you'd have to be stupid to do this.
Sure, I wouldn't hand out hard-earned Shekels to some fly-by-night who's about to disappear into the woodwork with it.
But there are outfits who've been around a long time and value their reputation and long-term relationship with the community.
If they plopped something unfinished on the table and said: "Guys, this has dried up. If you want more, then we'll need help", then I would consider this as an honest business pitch, not a ripoff attempt.
This happens every day in the real world, and not just in the realm of Venture Capital.
Remember the choice is always yours - you can help kill it by just ignoring it.
The more people ignore it, the better the chance that the guys who bought in, will lose out.
Just please don't justify this negative action by some kind of holier-than-thou attitude rooted in the Popsicle Contract!

Which brings me to the SOH Donations post...(which was a slightly obtuse way of getting your attention )
When you make a donation to the Bandwidth Drive, it is based on a couple of promises.
 That the admin will not run off with the money.
 That SOH and the admin will still be here for at least another year, delivering you the forum services
Do you see that these promises are the same as the developer of the unfinished contract?

So you can take the plunge and support it financially if you can, on the basis of that promise.
Remember the choice is always yours - you can help kill it by just ignoring it.

So my point is, there are possibilities other than the Popsicle Delivery Contract.

I'd like to see some more innovative payware development programmes...
There might be benefit in paying some-one to do the hard bits, releasing it as open-source payware, and then the flightsim community has a crack at producing amazing variants as freeware.
Many payware developers are hamstrung because they can't use some of the great freeware elements in their work.
(Piglet can tell you all about the freedom of freeware.)

It will become harder and more expensive to produce products to meet our ever-rising expectations.
The Popsicle Contract might not be the only (or best) method to use.

 

[GT182]

Anyone who buys it without the vc is a sucker! It's an insult to offer it as an incomplete package! :isadizzy:

You can say that agin Mud. Besides, how do you fly an aircraft with no guts? Kinda silly to even offer it to the public IMHO.

Hmmmm, maybe Capt Sim is hurtin for money. Call the White House...we need another bailout.

 

[djscoo]

Yeah, but that's because people paid for - and got - the F/A-18D. Does anyone actually ever load the F117?

I've got it loaded, but I have never flown it. I never use the single-seater Hornet anymore...The vc-aliasing doesn't bother me if the match is close...

 

[Kiwikat]

But there are outfits who (...) value their reputation and long-term relationship with the community.

That does not sound like CS to me. Their customer support is widely regarded as well... do a search.

Which brings me to the SOH Donations post...(which was a slightly obtuse way of getting your attention )
When you make a donation to the Bandwidth Drive, it is based on a couple of promises.
 That the admin will not run off with the money.
 That SOH and the admin will still be here for at least another year, delivering you the forum services
Do you see that these promises are the same as the developer of the unfinished contract?

This has nothing to do with a company with a sketchy history of charging high prices for "blocks" of a product. It also has nothing to do with this thread.

So you can take the plunge and support it financially if you can, on the basis of that promise.
Remember the choice is always yours - you can help kill it by just ignoring it.

I guess I'll kill it then (the CS B-52, not SOH)! I pay my money for complete products. I don't go to the store for a pizza and just buy the pepperoni.

There is also a difference between DONATING to a nonprofit and PURCHASING from a company, and the expectations that come with both.

I'd like to see some more innovative payware development programmes...

Yes, like actually finishing it before releasing it!

There might be benefit in paying some-one to do the hard bits, releasing it as open-source payware, and then the flightsim community has a crack at producing amazing variants as freeware.
Many payware developers are hamstrung because they can't use some of the great freeware elements in their work.
(Piglet can tell you all about the freedom of freeware.)

If that was indeed their goal, they would be releasing it as freeware!

It will become harder and more expensive to produce products to meet our ever-rising expectations.

Other companies manage it.

This isn't an attack against CS at all. This is the maybe somewhat harsh reality. Other companies have been in business for many years and have never released an unfinished product. You don't see them in situations like this. Captainsim has had a history of being detached from the community. It seems they are continuing this trend by doing something that almost no one approves of.

 

[GT182]

You know...just scrolling through this thread...all you naysayers, to a man (I'm pretty sure):
NONE of you have contributed to this year's bandwidth drive!
What's the matter with you?
Do you have so little trust, that you think Ickie will take your money and run off with it???

Easy now Wing..... some of us don't have the money to donate. There are those of us that aren't working and don't have the extra money. I for one can't right now due to the time of the year. Once the grass starts to grow I'll kick in. But don't come down on us that can't at this moment, or just can't.

 

[Prowler1111]

Many payware developers are hamstrung because they can't use some of the great freeware elements in their work.

say WHAT?!..:angryfir:

And can you give me some SOLID proof regarding that statement?..

Prowler

 

[strykerpsg]

Cut and pasted from the Captain Sim forum:

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Re: Captain Sim B-52 Stratofortress
Reply #103 - Yesterday at 10:42:47

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As for now the B-52 product is just an exterior with nothing else promised. As for the future VC/systems upgrades, we will see what the future will bring us.
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<HR class=hr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px" width="100%" SIZE=1>Thank you,
Enjoy Your Flight!

CS Web Site | Customer Support | Contact Us

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So, buyer beware of future additions to this product.

Matt

 

[Wing_Z]

Cut and pasted from the Captain Sim forum:
...So, buyer beware of future additions to this product.
Matt

Right - so no ripoff, you will get what you pay for.
Nice change.
End of this particular argument.

Easy now Wing..... some of us don't have the money to donate. There are those of us that aren't working and don't have the extra money. I for one can't right now due to the time of the year. Once the grass starts to grow I'll kick in. But don't come down on us that can't at this moment, or just can't.

GT this was not a personal attack in any way - just a jolt to point out that the premise must be the same: one can commit to stuff that is promised, but not yet delivered.
I was hoping to draw naysayers who had made a SOH donation, into admitting that comparison.

say WHAT?!..:angryfir:
And can you give me some SOLID proof regarding that statement?..
Prowler

C'mon...just about every aircraft element has in some way already been done.
When you make a payware model, you have to re-invent everything from scratch because you can't use the freeware parts bin.
That wastes a huge resource, and makes the payware much more expensive, to the detriment of the consumers.

 

[Prowler1111]

C'mon...just about every aircraft element has in some way already been done.
When you make a payware model, you have to re-invent everything from scratch because you can't use the freeware parts bin.
That wastes a huge resource, and makes the payware much more expensive, to the detriment of the consumers.

So i take you´re into MSFS aircraft development and must definitely know something i don´t , because that is a completely WRONG statement..

Maybe in your logic we should ALL move into freeware, right? so everything should be FREE..like it was in the "old days"?
Prowler

 

[N2056]

I'd love to know where that freeware parts bin is!

 

[CodyValkyrie]

A high amount of innovation in this industry is driven by consumer demand. I would bare to say that the majority of the innovation is indeed started commercially.

 

[Prowler1111]

I really find this statement extremely insulting!:

When you make a payware model, you have to re-invent everything from scratch because you can't use the freeware parts bin.

:angryfir::angryfir:

I know many developers who truly try their best to innovate and produce something never before done!, standing the common "are we there yet" questions from potential customers who demand something new on every single release, i´m not against freeware developers, in fact, i admire those who give their time for such an ingrate hobby(yup, even when is freeware, you get a kick on your keister).

Prowler

 

[Wing_Z]

I really find this statement extremely insulting!:
Prowler

There's no insult direct or implied there.
It's a statement of fact: as a payware developer you are prohibited from using most freeware resources, in terms of their eula statement.
This means that the resource is lost to you, if you had wanted to use it.
Even if it were the source file for a source file, it's work done that you then don't have to do.
As to the parts bin, try
www.avsim.com
or www.flightsim.com
and see if you are unable to find a widget that in some form or another, has not been done, from an XML HSI gauge, to something that makes AI taxi faster.
If the basis of commerce were slightly different, the community could benefit from the common pool.
And it might free you the developer to apply your considerable talents to the interesting and innovative stuff, rather than re-invent wheel hubs.
It's a win-win

 

[spotlope]

Is anyone here who's a dev ever tried to integrate someone else's model into their product or workflow? I can tell you from experience, it's a nightmare most of the time. Not because there's anything wrong with the way others do things per se, but everyone has their own way of building. The idea of a "freeware parts bin" gives me a twitch just thinking about it. I tried to add some default FSX objects to some of my scenery recently, and my beta team started screaming about how low-res some of the models were. You guessed it... all the stock stuff. Nope, once you've developed a visual style, you're committed.

 

[ryanbatc]

Easy now Wing..... some of us don't have the money to donate.

Or have spent a lot helping out other forum members :salute:

I guess that's why my sig is gone....

 

[N2056]

For any developer that is striving for a quality rendition of a plane those "resources" are generally a waste of time. There is very little in the way of mesh, and finding an xml gauge of a specific instrument used in a specific plane that you are modeling are very low indeed. After 10+ years of doing this I have a very good feel for what is out there in the freeware parts bin, and for anyone doing a serious model it's not worth the effort to go through.