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Carenado WIP: Beech D18

gman5250 said:
I'm going to purchase it tomorrow just to evaluate it for myself. :very_drunk:
Click to expand...

Welcome to the club!

Reminds me of the joke about the guy who goes to the refrigerator, get out out a carton of milk and says, "Yuk, this stinks. Here, smell!" Maybe that's me?

That said, you'll be glad you did if they fix everything and make it the great aircraft it can be.

Breaker, breaker, good buddy.

Regarding the Mad, Mad, Mad World clip, I stood outside that hangar, before they tore it down, and pondered what it would have been like to fly through it in a Twin Beech.

And then I remembered Corky Fornoff did it in a little Bede Jet, too.

What I didn't know at the time was that a serious concern was how much air was displaced by the aircraft and how quickly.

The problem was you could blow the roof off the place, even with the doors open on both ends!
 
Won't know until I fly the airplane, but I own every Carenado in the inventory and love them all.

I don't, as a rule, reverse engineer payware aircraft. I wait for the devs to do their updates, which are part and parcel of the development process.
I use the SDK to develop aircraft that have not yet been created for sim, or update older releases with the permission of the original developer.

My point about the SDK was to point to the fact that the tools are available for everyone to begin with a blank canvas and create to their own requirements. :encouragement:
 
Tweeking the FDE

Hi all: I think this may be the first time I posted on this forum. Anyway, I compared the Carenado FDE with FDE's from other commercial and freeware Beech 18's and made some changes. The plane is now a lot more stable and enjoyable. I checked with Avsim and Carenado to seek if I could post my changes. Carenado responded by thanking me for my feedback. So I posted my changes on the Avsim Carenado forum. I'll post them here if it's OK with the administrators. Also, I'm a lawyer, not a pilot or flightsim expert. Thus, please feel free to post bad lawyer jokes, but don't beat me up to badly about my FDE changes. Mike Gutierrez, North Hollywood, California.
 
I could be wrong Mongo (a bad habit of mine), but thanking you for your feedback doesn't sound like a clearance to post changes, rather just a "thanks a lot and we'll look into it" reply. If they had said "yes, by all means please post any changes you wish". . .then I'd say you had every reason to go forward and post what you changed. They may very well take your changes and use them as is or modify them to their liking, however the airplane hasn't been out very long and Carenado has some obvious fixes to comply with so. . . .thin ice here I would think. . .and as an Attorney I would think you'd have known that. But, as I said, I could be wrong.
 
FDEs

On this whole FDE issue, where is it written that an AIR file, or any other component, can't be shared for non-commercial purposes?

I don't ask that as a challenge to anyone, by the way, but strictly for informational purposes. It would be helpful if we had some facts to go by on this issue.

With a lawyer in our midst, perhaps we can learn something about intellectual property and copyright issues that might be involved here.

If I buy a product—sim, software, music, or whatever—and send a copy of it to someone, it's clear to me that is unlawful, akin to stealing.

But if I buy a car and modify the code in the chip that controls the engine not only can I share it, apparently, but there are companies that sell such add-ons.

Is that any different than sharing (or even, gasp, selling) a modified FDE?

(I wonder if this should be a new thread?)
 
Carenado owns the rights to that FDE and when you bought the product, you agreed to the terms and conditions. It's like changing the lyrics of a song and republishing it. Rather than publish the modded FDE, maybe just say what you did so that other's can experiment privately?

The D18 is a pretty sweet model as it is.
 
Carenado's Terms and Conditions aren't relevant to this disussion, but the End User License Agreement is.

To answer my own question, it's very specific:

All the material contained in this SOFTWARE PRODUCT is exclusive copyright of Carenado and no part of any of the models contained in this package, or any other files within, in part or in whole, may be copied, re-distributed, disassembled, re-packaged or in any way be exploited for any commercial purpose without the express permission of Carenado.
Click to expand...

Emphasis mine.
 
Whoa! That second video is, um, incriminating, isn't it!

It demonstrates essentially the same roll rate as Younkin's very light aircraft, too, which is interesting.

Loved the article you found. Brits have a way with the English language, don't they.

Good video I just stumbled on at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1qSzCnzXvY. Lots of interesting tidbits, but very choppy editing.
 
re: the FDE characteristics

Milton's 18 flys like a dream in my humble estimation. How does the Carenado compare to that?
 
Looking at that EULA again, lets break it down.


All the material contained in this SOFTWARE PRODUCT is exclusive copyright of Carenado and no part of any of the models contained in this package, or any other files within, in part or in whole,
1) may be copied,
2) re-distributed,
3) disassembled,
4) re-packaged
5) or in any way be exploited for any commercial purpose


without the express permission of Carenado.


You can't say that any of these conditions are only applicable if its done for a commercial purpose, you certainly can't give your friends free copies of your packages. Since the .air file is a binary file, you could argue you can't really modify it without having a program 'disassemble' it first.

Having said that, giving instructions how to do it would be considered free speech and you would be on firm legal grounds to do so, although this site could have its own rules on that, and I won't comment on those (since I don't know).
 
Just to reiterate Roger's comment, this subject is being monitored 24/7 and the simple facts are 'No, you really can't mod the FDE'......:173go1:
Semantics and dancing around the issue does not make it legal, do it in the privacy of your own hanger but keep it there if you must.
End of discussion 'Ladies'.
Just wait and Carenado will patch it if needed.
 
blanston12 said:
Looking at that EULA again, lets break it down.
You can't say that any of these conditions are only applicable if its done for a commercial purpose, you certainly can't give your friends free copies of your packages. Since the .air file is a binary file, you could argue you can't really modify it without having a program 'disassemble' it first.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, good point.
 
tailspin45 said:
Milton's is best there is, as far as I'm concerned. Sounds and flies right
Click to expand...
Just installed Miltons Beech and flying his version at 2000ft, 180kts, no pax no payload, 50% fuel, I need 4 sec for an aileron roll to the left and 5sec to the right. With the Carenado version the figures are 5sec and 6sec.
I honestly don't understand the outcry that the Carenado version 'flies nothing like the real thing' has unrealistic 'fighter like performance/handling' since Miltons Beech rolls even quicker.
Roll inertia is also very similar (which should be impossible according to an 'expert' here looking at the MOI numbers).

Talking about Milton I'd like to add that I know him since many years and for me he's by far the highest respected, knowledgeable member in the flightsim community and I truly admire him for his always gentlemanlike and very polite behavior.
 
bbrz said:
(which should be impossible according to an 'expert' here looking at the MOI numbers).

Talking about Milton I'd like to add that I know him since many years and for me he's by far the highest respected, knowledgeable member in the flightsim community and I truly admire him for his always gentlemanlike and very polite behavior.
Click to expand...

I qualified my experience and/or lack there of. You still have not.

Shame knowing Milton did not rub some of his gentlemen-like and polite demeanor on to some folks he knows.
 
Just purchased and downloaded the Beech.
Watched the cockpit videos....with stopwatch.

Gonna go fly the new model.
(BTW...have tons of hours in Milton's version.)

Anyone want to guess the first thing I'm going to do????

I'll take requests for inflight video to post as memorial to the occasion. :biggrin-new:

BTW
BTW
We had a D-18 when I was a kid. Can't honestly remember how long it took to do a full aileron roll.
 
bbrz said:
And? Where's the problem? I'm loving it when people are getting personal for no reason (see your previous post) and they don't know what they are talking about.
Click to expand...

You know I completely get that some folks have more developed subtlety and social skills than others. And, that social skills are not correlated to technical skills. So, in the spirit of this forum, "it is better to be helpful than right", I will lay it out in spades.


On the one hand, we have a person (let's call them Pilot B), a professional pilot, hundreds of hours in the Beech D18S, flew it commercially, wrote an FAA manual for it, and is a positive contributor to the community. Pilot B bought the Carenado model, then, using his experience and expertise, compiled a well documented bug list (mostly in the cockpit) that was submitted without malice to the developer. Oh, and by the way, uses his real name so you confirm his qualifications and expertise.


On the other hand, we have a person (let's call them Commenter A), a forum lurker, who does not use their real name or have any documented expertiese concerning the Beech D18S (or flightsim even). According to Commenter A, his stated expertise is knowing Milton Shupe for many years.


So Pilot B applies his experience and expertise and within hours is attacked by Commenter A. No one is 100% right all of the time, even Pilot B. But Commenter A doesn't try to understand at all, instead applying whatever undisclosed (and maybe irrelevant) experience, they attack Pilot B. All the while hiding behind anonymity and forum PMs.


I ask you, who are we supposed to believe or even deal with? My parents were close friends of Charley Pride for much of the 1960's but that hardly qualifies me as a country music expert.


For Commenter A to attack the knowledge, experience and expertise of Pilot B who made an entire career out of commercial pilotage (much of it in the D18S) is the height of hubrus and foolishness. If you do not see this, you might want to consider empathy classes.


To question, to vigorously discuss, and to demonstrate expertise is all good. Hell, even encouraged. To repeat, Pilot B may be mistaken by virtue of a hundred reasons. But, Commenter A has only demonstrated expertise in trolling and refuses to participate in a human way to further everyone's knowledge.


Sorry, at this point, I'm aboard Pilot B's D18S, even if not perfect. Commenter A has no demonstrated or even explained expertise.
 
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