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Cessna Copyright Legalities.

I have been in the flightsimming for over 30 years now and with the hundreds of Cessna's around, both freeware and commercial, I have never ever heard of such a thing as paying royalties for modeling a 'toy aircraft' :costumes:

If it's true then we should see 90% of all aircraft disappear from the sim sites shortly, Abacus, Flight1, Carenado, JustFlight and others can close their doors.

I, for one, think it is BS and someone is trying to pull a fast one on you. :banghead:
 
I wonder what Mr. Cessna would think of all this?!?!..........:isadizzy:


Kevin :d
 
microsoft ask the license to the wright's brothers for the aircraft present on fs2004?
i think that flying companies should be very happy for all free advertising receive from people making models
 
Sometimes it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Then again... it all depends on how far they want to push something like this.
 
So model something that looks remarkably close to a Cessna C140 (with the exception of a couple of minor details) and call it a "Lionheart C140" and leave it at that. :d
 
I think I'd be letting Cessna how "adjustable" EMI was being with their fees. Also let them know that as a result, you're no longer interested in their products.

Willy
 
So model something that looks remarkably close to a Cessna C140 (with the exception of a couple of minor details) and call it a "Lionheart C140" and leave it at that. :d

Agreed! I am all for copyright protection, but I wouldn't have called them in the first place, especially seeing how these type of companies have overreacted in the past when it comes to an addon for a video game. If anything, modeling one of their designs for the sim would build enthusiasm for the real thing, a big win for them in my mind.

Insecurity and greed, gotta lov'em.
 
I think I'd be letting Cessna how "adjustable" EMI was being with their fees. Also let them know that as a result, you're no longer interested in their products.

Willy

Already done Willy. :d


I have been in the flightsimming for over 30 years now and with the hundreds of Cessna's around, both freeware and commercial, I have never ever heard of such a thing as paying royalties for modeling a 'toy aircraft' :costumes:

If it's true then we should see 90% of all aircraft disappear from the sim sites shortly, Abacus, Flight1, Carenado, JustFlight and others can close their doors.

I, for one, think it is BS and someone is trying to pull a fast one on you. :banghead:

Francois


Hey Francois,

Its a reality. I dont mind the small royalties. Its the huge, annual giant chunck of money that one must pay. That is not right.

Tamiya and other plastic model companies pay corporations royalties on some of their products. True that some would appreciate free advertisement, while others hunger for every red cent they can get, and in the middle is the 'fair and square' right to what is theirs. The big guys are entitled to 'something'. But its a drop in the bucket.

I do foresee alot of payware getting out of the business, and thus the 'glory' and public admiration of product lines such as Airbus airliners, Cessna 140's, Lear jets will soon become a thing of the past.

Whats funny is that for such a huge firm to try to make such a 'sim' plane themselves would cost them perhaps 100,000.00 USD to perhaps 200,000.00 USD, hiring in a team, setting up their office, setting out to create their own sim software. How much would each employee cost? How many hours? How many months? How much floor space? Cost of insurance on those team members? Expenses including copies of 3D Max at $4,000.00 USD each, Adobe CS3 at 2,000.00 USD each, etc. Trips to a plane to take photos. Sound mixing, spending weeks on making and refining the airfile set so the vehicle will handle realistically..

:costumes:

We do that as a write-off. The hours involved are hurrendous. I spent nearly a year on that Epic LT. The hours to profit 'do not add up'. And for a corporation to try it would be quite entertaining...


But, they'll find that out. No worries. :d

Things balance out. Its odd how the world works, how greed will stifle things and cause a huge wave of enthusiasm to die out and drift away.

Right now, General Aviation has been directly effected by Flight Simulator. Fact! One can see that many people that now or recently took up flying was usually directly affiliated with Flight Simulator. They had always wanted to fly, and the sim gives them a chance to 'taste' it. Cessna is selling planes to airschools, to pilots, because these guys (pilots and schools) are being fed enthusiasts that were effected and turned on by FS. FS has been like advertising in a far bigger way then Cessna can ever imagine. Airline pilots are out there that were originally simmers and were so impressed with FS and flight, that they got their license and are presently doing runs to Honolulu or Boston or Heathrow.

Now, to squash and stifle the ever growing enthusiasm and turn against it for the sake of greed and money will only turn upon them. Less Cessna's will be built, less pilots, less this, less that, less enthusiasm, less aviation engineers in school, and the drought sets in and things dry up....




Bill
 
We're a crazy race I tell ya. There must be a some alien races out there watching is with their big telescopes, laughing their asses off!:isadizzy:
 
I wouldn't over analyse it guys - the plastic model mfg industry is dealing with the same issue. Big uproar over it...is it the branding?
Or is it the planform of these now public domain icons from our history?

Just make the plane, call it a Cesssna, send Cessna a free copy of the file along with a link to FS Insider and call it good.

What you are doing is called 'promotional' and YOU should be getting paid..not EMI or whatever...
 
This is what I sent EMI and I am encouraging other AOPA members to write as well:

I was a part owner of a Cessna 140 and 170 for 12 years. I am now staff on a forum that encourages developers to build aircraft for flight simulators. We encorage other members to get their pilot license as well

Recently one of our developers (Lionheart Creations Ltd)contacted you about rights to build a 140 replica for Flight Simulator X and you quoted a ridiculous license fee.

You "professionals" are supposed to understand marketing. Don't you know that many of these people that fly these virtual aircraft are also pilots or soon to be pilots and they purchase real aircraft like maybe even the new Cessna Sportcraft.
Forget your silly license fee for virtual aircraft, and look at the marketing angle for Cessna products.

I am also a long standing member of AOPA. To make a long marketing story short, we want and need more people involved in flying and buying aircraft.

I suggest you wave your stupid license fee for the sake of marketing Cessna aircraft in the virtual skies and let some other would be pilots experience what I have and hopefully they too will take to the skies in Cessna aircraft.

I am infuriated about this and intend to take this as high as possible. By the way, I will not be the only one writing you and anybody else that will listen. Perhaps Piper will be kinder. Come to think of it a Tri-pacer would do just fine!

Respectfully yours,
Ted Freeman


Go get 'em Bill and we will do that same. We really want that 140!
Ted
 
I think that boeing spent a lot more of cessna but do not make those request.....
you wrote in the right way txnetcop.
 
Don't give up the ghost yet Bill! Keep plugging, these things have a tendency to change. That guy must have been stoned.........$2,500.00!!:costumes: I'd love to see a 410......anything from you is good to go for me!!
 
I agree with Francois...Bill, someone is trying to pull one on you..and i´m almost sure that Cessna got it wrong when you contacted them, they might think you´re doing a full simulator for commercial purposes.I have contacted and in fact, got help from the Northrop/Grumman (yes gentlemen..GRUMMAN) museum and they have been as help full as you can possibly dream...
Best regards
Prowler
 
Bill,

Would be a real shame if you didn't produce that 140 just because of stupid fees and such. I'm surprised Bell Helicopter hasn't knocked on my door for producing models of the 212, 214B, 412, 205, 210, UH1, 222, 230 and 430:d Go for it man, just call it a different name:costumes:
 
I've hesitated to respond so will be brief...

EMI handles the Licensing for Cessna. A few months back quite a few FS Developers received via registered mail a licensing pack and application form asking for a run down of past sales numbers and the opportunity to participate in the Cessna Licensing Program.

A few conversations reveal that Cessna thru EMI is weeding out certain parties from using Cessna's name, logo, etc.

The licensing program comes in at 5% of sales along with yet a to be set quarterly minimum.

What this means is that those of us who develop FS Cessna Products will be forced to pass these costs off to consumers or cease to sell or build Cessna Products.

You can forget the idea of making a Cessna just wrong enough to fit a square peg into a round hole. That dog won't hunt boys :isadizzy:
 
That's also why there are no Payware Gulfstreams. They want so much money for a virtual copy of one of their aircraft, you's have to sell it for a rediculous amount per copy to even break even.

Big discussion about this over on the old Eaglesoft forums a while back as I faintly remember

Brian
 
OMG..then it´s true, i thought it was a urban legend, but "someone" once brought to my attention the fact that "some" civil FS developers "who-do-airliners" are hitting the 6 figures sales incomes and that some :censored:ng "wise guys" payed attention and are looking to get some of that cake.... I guess it explains current pricing on some comercial developers.

Prowler
 
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