Cfs aircraft sounds

basically, decreasing the 505 RST number,
reduces the starter torque.
when starter torque is decreased,
it doesn't have the umph
to turn the engine over fast enough
so it has the rpms required to start.

in my experiments,
i've found a difference
between torque required to start using the E key
and manually using a starter button.
the trick will be finding a balance,
so both options will function properly.
 
am still thinking about the starter torque
and was going to ask if anyone knows
how to adjust the idle rpms.
then, it dawned on me...check out
Ivan's Engine Performance Tuning Tutorial
and there it is, post #33,
Tuning Idle RPM

as i see it, the next step will be to figure out
what the exact engine start rpm is
and where one would go to adjust it.
does anyone have any ideas?
 
Hello Smilo,

You know that you can tune down both the Friction and the Torque at idle so that the engine is VERY easy to start and it will not affect the performance elsewhere.
It will be one odd looking graph though.
Just make sure you only tune down the low end of the graph or you certainly will affect performance elsewhere.

I am also not sure what it would buy you because if you tune down both Torque and Friction for the Engine, the Starter Torque can be lower but that won't necessarily affect the starting time which is what I believe you are going after.

On a related note, the headphones I use cost $2.50 or so.
This is the second set I have bought. The last set worked fine until my Son borrowed them for a while for his gaming.
I am not a good judge of sound quality but my Daughter told me the first set sounded very good.... While they worked.
My Son does not tend to be very careful with his equipment which is why I was willing to try another set.

Hello Aleatorylamp,
Anna Honey should be leaving Madrid early tomorrow morning. I haven't spoken to her during the trip to let her know to look for a Hispano Buchon to bring home.

- Ivan.
 
Hello Smilo,
Good explanation on starter motor torque to get the necessary RPMs for startup!

For Idle, there is also Record 506 to adjust idle speed revs- I suppose it´s a minimum throttle setting.
If set too low on the left side of the graph the engine will stop after a while.

Again, it won´t affect the duration of the start-up sound though!

Hello Ivan,
Interesting suggestion about using torque and friction graphs to adjust idle power!

I bet you´d like the Hispano Buchón! (from "buche", a bird´s crop, because of the bulge under the nose).
I believe these had Rolls Royce Merlins engines.
There was also the Hispano Tripala version with its sleeker nose and Hispano Suiza engine, some of which were then remotorized with Rolls Royce Merlins and 4-bladed props turning the opposite direction.
The Seville factory Hispano Aviación appear to have licence-built 172 Spanish Bf109G-2 units from 1954 to 1958, but about 25 or 40 were built before, as of 1951.
As usual, it is difficult to figure out exactly how many of which motorization were built, but it is quite striking how many different models were licence-built in Spain.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
Hello Smilo,
I experimented with the Extra300 sounds, by lowering the pitch on all
the .wav sounds, and on the No. 4 sound, I did a double lowering effect.

Then, using Minuteman10´s Sound.cfg (this man deserves a medal!),
I tried it out, but the sound lacks some noisiness, clattering and such.
Funnily enough, although it came out lower, it is too smooth,
but it was an interesting exercise.

There must be a default sound that can come out better. There are a few
altered versions of the Cessna 182 sounds around, but it isn´t what we
need either. We´ll keep on looking.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
Sounds: P47d vs Extra300

Hello Smilo,
Following on from your comments on the P47d sounds to be used
with a modified (or not...) Merlin Sound.cfg file by Minuteman10:

I had already put the Merlin Sound.cfg in with the P47d sounds.
so, I just moved the whole sound file over into the Ju-52 one.

The sounds themselves are nicely noisy and clanky, and the
only thing to be corrected would be to make .wav sound 4 higher
in pitch, because the revs sound a bit too slow - low in pitch.

However, from your comment on the other thread, I suppose it
can´t be done in the Sound.cfg only, because it would entail the
engine itself having to raise its RPM to increase sound pitch.

So, I suppose, it´s no good.

That´s probably why the Extra300 sound sounds quite good with
the Ju-52´s low RPM´s - because it´s really a very high pitched
sound on a high-rev engine.
Hmmmm... No pun intended...
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
real puny, Stephan.
which in turn, adds to my confusion.
(don't even think about apologizing.
it's my nature to be confused.)

i haven't aliased the p47d sounds to the ju52, yet,
so, i don't know how they sound
in conjunction with the ju52 air file.
ie, the lower engine rpms.

as i see it, the problem with the 300 sound.cfg
is that it's a fs98 file.
remember the limitations?
we can still use the waves, though.
once again, with the modified merlin sound.cfg as a base.

my main knock with the merlin sound.cfg
was the lack of low rpm pitch increase with acceleration.
you know, the old same story.
it's not a problem anymore.
i was able to modify it.

so, when we get it all straightened out
and we're satisfied with the overall sound,
THEN, we need to make it for multi engines.
like it's been said before,
it's always somethin'

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i just aliased the stock p47d sound
to the new ju5-3m.
it doesn't sound half bad.
especially, in the 50-90% throttle range.
100% is okay, but, i prefer the lower settings.
 
Hello Smilo,
OK! That´s what I thought as well after using the stock P47d sounds
with the "new" Merlin Sound.cfg (I left in the idle .wav of the Merlin).
So it seems that we are getting somewhere, doesn´t it?
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
FW 190A Sounds

Hello Gentlemen,

Have either of you checked out the stock FW 190A sounds?
I tend to prefer those over the P-47D because even though I know in reality it is a smaller engine, it sounds a bit more throaty.

One of our game machines has resisted booting for about a week now but last night, my Son managed to get it started with no effort at all.

- Ivan.
 
maybe, yes...maybe, no.

if i might ask again,
what do you think of the stock p47d sounds,
aliased to your ju52?

am i correct in that, it's all good,
except for the 90 to 100% throttle range?
is that higher pitch "noise" distracting?

another quick question,
why did you leave in the merlin idle?
i mean, what ever you do is okay with me,
but, i thought we were trying
to develop radial sounds.

i know i jump around all over the place.
sometimes, no, most of the time,
it is difficult to stay focused.
it's that old man, adhd thing
and it's very aggravating.

okay, it just dawned on me,
(captain obvious strikes again)
what i'm suppose to be doing here
is trying to understand the workings
of cfs1 sound.cfg files.
radial, inline, or jet, it doesn't matter.
i want to know the basics.
how and when are wave files called,
manipulated and then, blended
to achieve a properly functioning,
quality sound for any cfs1 aircraft,
vehicle or ship.

no small task, i dare say.
...where to start?
well, much as i like the work done
within the merlin sound folder,
i believe i need to set it aside
and backtrack to the stock cfs aircraft sounds.
first, analyze each sound.cfg,
find and note any similarities and differences.

when that's done, the next step will be
to choose one and dissect it,
analyzing each filename= "wave call"
paying close attention to each V & R params entry
in an attempt to suss out what the entries mean.

as i've said, it's no small task,
but, what else do i have to do?
 
funny you should mention the fw190.
as i was comparing sound.cfg files,
i noticed that, other than the wave names,
the p47d and fw190 v & rparams= entries
are exactly the same.
then, it dawned on me that i hadn't listened
to the fw190 in game....ooops.
you are absolutely correct,
thank you for the reminder.
the 190 does have a more "throaty" tone,
and yes, i've just aliased it and am testing now.
...much more betta than the p47.


me thinks we have a candidate
for the sound.cfg dissection
 
Sound "tasting" with the Merlin Sound.cfg

Hello Smilo, hello Ivan!
Until I don´t get my fingers into actually modifying the entries and seeing
the effects, I won´t understand the workings of the numbers in a Sound.cfg.
Your work in this aspect, Smilo, is indeed commendable.

So, all I´ve been doing with the sounds, is using the "more progressive"
Merlin Sound.cfg to experment with quite a number of .wav sounds.
Calling different sounds with the Sound.cfg file - or rather, renaming the
.wav files to match the calls in this Sound.cfg.

The P47d sound is great because it has a distinctive rumble to it, and yes,
the FW190A sounds are also very good because of their throatiness!

What I was complaining about on the 90-100% throttle range for the P47d
being too low-pitched was a mistake on my part: I was testing with an old
FS98 Ju52 which didn´t get the revs up enough so that trial was a false negative!

Anyway: I think both the P47d and the FW190A sounds would definitely qualify
as candidates in the Stock Engine Sound Group!

Smilo, you are completely right about the Merlin Idle sound! I´d kept it in for the
FW190a by mistake, because it hadn´t occurred to me that sound No. 1 there
is in effect the Idle Sound! Stupid me - an error in appreciation...

Trials with the Extra300 sounds have the disadvantage that Sound No.4 is far
too high pitched - OK for smaller, faster running engines! If there is a possibility
of lowering the pitch in the Sound.cfg, for sound No. 4, it would be great, because
the other sounds are fine! Then it could qualify as a good candidate too!

Now for the non-stock sounds:

Trials with the BMW 801 Radial Sounds from Simviation proved excellent,

Trials with the DC3 Propliner sounds probably won´t fit a non-luxury Trimotor
because the distinct smooth rumble correspons more to better soundproofed
passenger airliner.

Trials with the Ford Trimotor sounds, would probably fit a more modern and
less rudimentary aircraft.

I haven´t tried out the radial sounds that come with some of the B25 or B26.
I remember they had a great startup sound!
Possibly their roar would be excessive for the Ju-52.

The same would go for the Sakae radial sounds, also from Simviation - too big and
too powerful!

So, that´s as far as I´ve got with the sound "tasting".

Needless to say, I´m quite curious about the Sound.cfg modifications Smilo is
undertaking for some of the sounds!

Ivan, I hope your gaming machine remains functional!

OK, then! Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
STEPHAN!!!..do i have your attention?

many thanks for reminding me
that the number 1 sound.cfg filename=entry
represents the engine at idle.
should be obvious, right?

well, for some unknown reason,
i spent an hour or so,
fooling with the vparams with no success.
all i wanted to do was adjust the idle rpm response
to increasing the throttle percentage.

then, i looked at the rparams second entry
and started thinking...(another not so small task)

in the fw190 sound.cfg, that value is 0.273000, 1.1766000
okay, fine...what the hell does that mean?
0.273000 is the rpm (roughly, 2730 rpms)
at which the pitch is increased or decreased.
0.0000 being not at all and 2.0000 being maximum,
which increases the wave pitch by a full octave.
therefore, if i modify the 0.273000 entry
to say, 0.0900 i am able to lower
the throttle/rpm response to about 5%
or roughly, 1000 rpms in the fw190.
OH, FOR JOY!!!

carrying this a little farther to the over 90% "noise"
i modified the [fe4b] final vparams entry a little.
notice that all vparams values have 0.000000 as the second number,
with the exception of the last 0.917000,100.00000
the 100.00000 represents the maximum volume
the wave will be played, beginning at the designated rpm.
all the others with 0.00000 are silent.
so what?
just for grins, i lowered the 100.00000 to 60.0000
and now, that 100% throttle the "noise" is still present,
just not as over bearing as before.

of course, the job is not complete.
the exterior wave calls still need to be tweaked.
but, i believe, i'm getting a handle on it.
 
just for fun, i aliased the modified fw190 sound
to the ju52/3m and took her out for a "spin".
am cruising along at 6,000 ft, 70% throttle.
wowzers...i love it.
nice tones.
 
Sounding out the sounds

Hello Smilo,
Well, in fact it wasn´t all that obvious because the totally
default run-of-the-mill Cessna182 has a specific Idle .wav
and ALSO a No.1 .wav.

I was thinking that maybe the FW190a was using a generic
Idle from the general sound folder, but of course, that´s not true.

Anyway, to the interesting nitty-gritty you just discovered:
With that, just for experiment´s sake, I´ll try to lower the
Extra300 No.4 Sound pitch with this.

Funny how it goes with tastes for sounds:
I like the P47d ones a little more than the FW190a´s, for max. speed,
but you´re right about the FW190a sounds for the Ju52/3m - they do
fit very nicely!

Update:
Now I´m curious about what happens with my "pet" Extra300 sounds
that I always use, with their "ignominous" roar at lower rpm´s:

No. 4 .wav has the typical Acro-Plane high-revved humming sound,
and I tried to reduce it, but found it was still there, so better to just
make the Sound.cfg ignore it altogether.

So, for the 4th sound, I just called .wav No. 3 again, and it works fine!
... but the sounds from the FW190a and P47d are perhaps better.

Thanks for the info!
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
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no, there is no generic idle sound wave.
that will be the first [SOUND_ENGINE] filename=entry.
but, if a sound.cfg does not call
a specific start sound wave
placed in the aircraft sound folder,
by default, cfs uses the startpis wave file.
this wave is found in the main sound folder.
i believe the same holds true for wind
and that annoying take off and landing bumping.

it would seem to me, the 300 sounds you've mentioned,
could be modified by playing with the v and r params
in the rpm ranges that bother you.
just remember, rparams modify the pitch
by increasing or decreasing the playback speed
and vparams modify the playback volume
of specific waves at specific rpms.
the trick is figuring out the location (rpm)
of where you want to modify each wave.
to add to the fun, ie, confusion,
there can be up to 8 points (rpms)
in each vparams where volume can be set.
these are, basically, volume fade in/fade out settings.

another important thing to remember;
the overall aircraft sound in game is a blend
of several filename wave entries called in the sound.cfg.
each wave fades in and/or out, but also, in turn,
overlaps the previous and/or following wave called to play.
there by, with a little luck, producing a rich,
fuller, multi faceted sound.

next...tweaking the startup/idle timing
and then, adding multi engines.
 
Hello Smilo,
OK, Now I get it.
With the rparams I was fiddling with the first entry of the pair,
but that defines the rpm, which now I´m thinking, is absurd.

The second entry defines the pitch, and that´s what I should work on. Thanks!

I´ll give it a try, to see if I can lower the humming and turn it into a rumble.

The overall view you describe on how the files interact with each other,
would definitely make an art out of sound tuning!

More later,

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
yes indeed, it could.
if one was patient, inquisitive and tenacious.
it also might not hurt
if one was a former rock and roll sound man.
funny how things seem to work out.
 
Hello Smilo,
Yes, you have an advantage there, with your experience on sound mixing tables!
Slowly this sound.cfg business is beginning to make sense.

The results on the Extra300 + Merlin Sound.cfg combination:

Yes!! Wow!! I not only got the No. 4 .wav humming pitch down, but also
lowered .wav No.3, and the roar is now slightly lower pitched, which I find
better.

Now there´s one more thing I have to do: Increase 1000-1600 RPM volume
because it´s rather quiet there, but it should be quite straight forward for
me to manage that.

It´s nice to be getting some good results when one knows what one is doing.
Of course, I´m benefiting from your hard decyphering work, combined with
your explanations!

Update:
I believe I´m getting the mid-range RPM volume sounds sorted out too.
It appears that in the vparams lines, the rpm/volume parameter pairs aren´t
always placed in order, but OK!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
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this pleases me greatly.
i love it when a plan comes together.

i'm still not positive about
the six digit decimal/rpm relationship.
please, let me know if you find out
anything during your experiments.
 
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