Cfs1 furball

I created this from a skin that I'd previously edited from Il2 cliffs of Dover screenshots. The generic Il2 skin did not have specific squadron markings . I would probably have to change the colours slightly to adapt it to a specific squadron . I may have a version without the yellow nose texture, I'll check. This is wip so there are some texture issues that have to be corrected, and textures still to be edited.
 
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Hello Rince33,

I presume you saw that there were two Spinner textures. One is for regular player flown aircraft with full animation.
The other is for AI flown in which the propeller animation seems to disappear. On some add-on aircraft with animated spinners and the like, the spinner disappears which is pretty odd looking. This aeroplane project was also a first test to see if the SCASM edit idea I had would address this problem.

At this point I only know how to animate one spinner and prevent the other from vanishing. Perhaps I will learn enough to animate the other as well at some point.

Take it for a spin and see how much fun it is to land on a short island airstrip....

- Ivan.
 
Hello you'all.


Thanks aleatorylamp.


Ivan, I did wonder about that second spinner texture.

You guys are creating nice models here. This sim is underated, it definitly deserves more attention and I was quite surprised it even ran on win7, yeah I'm still running on that os. Bob wov2, another favourite of mine, won't run properly on Win8/10. I have another hard drive that I will use for win10 when I absolutely need to go there.

I haven't tried landings yet, I'm trying to squeeze in the odd raf campaign mission every now and then when I'm not busy with textures and real life. I'll give it a proper spin today.:smile-new:
 
Hi Rince33,

I´m glad you like our models, even though they are made with the now over-20-year-old AF99, and not with Gmax or FSDS3. However, in all this time, we´ve learnt how to squeeze the most out of it, largely thanks to Ivan´s insight and abilities, so results are quite satisfactory.
Our main difficulty seems to be with textures, so it´s great you have jumped in!
ernaehrung004.gif

...and I´d say that good textures make up for 50% of the value of a model!

Regarding my hardware, in 2012 I managed to get hold one of the last new motherboards and AMD quadcore CPU´s (APU, actually) that catered for Windows XP, so fortunately all the old sims, Aircraft Factory 99 and Aircraft Animator work flawlessly. The last two can´t handle 64bit OS.

Cheers for now,
Aleatorylamp
 
Hello Aleatorylamp,

Thanks for the compliment, but there are a bunch more people besides myself that are or were doing some pretty creative work with CFS1. The reason I have stuck with CFS1 for so long is that although its graphics are not quite up to modern standards, they still are not bad for visualizations and the flight modelling that is possible isn't that different from what is available in some of the more modern simulators and it is really the flight simulation aspect and being able to reproduce realistic flight performance that I am interested in.


Hello Rince33,

One of the things I forgot to address about the you-tube videos is that while both the 109 and Spitfire both have very narrow landing gear, the 109 has wheels which are canted in relation to the ground. When the aircraft first touches down on just the main wheels, the wheels are more or less aligned in the direction of movement, but as soon as the tail lowers, the mains have a substantial toe-out and stability is not so good.
I believe that the CoG is also much further back from the mains on the 109 than on the Spitfire which also adversely affects directional stability.

Attached are a couple images to show what the box art for the Monogram Me109E looks like and what I was going for in my released paint scheme. "Erika" was just there because the song just stuck in my head. I installed an old German font to be able to get the lettering to apply to the side of the Me109E-4.
The Monogram model kit looks much more like a Me109E-3 but the E-4 was the current standard of this very interesting time period.

- Ivan.
 

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Hi Ivan,

"...and it is really the flight simulation aspect and being able to reproduce realistic
flight performance that I am interested in."

I agree with you. It´s one of the reasons I prefer them to any of the newer sims.
FS98 and CFS1 do seem more sensitive to adjustments to the .air file, and also,
you don´t have check all the time that something in the Aircraft.cfg is overriding
your fine adjustments!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
Hello Aleatorylamp,

Just because I find CFS1 "Mostly" sufficient for my purposes doesn't mean that I don't find problems or issues that the newer simulators don't address better.

I believe having parameters in Aircraft.CFG override the parameters in the AIR file makes for an easier time for most people.
Most people deal better with labeled text fields rather than a decoding a bulk binary file with no distinct fields. It also allows for easier method for a quick experiment and leaving a comment as to what value was changed and what the prior value was. It is pretty hard to do that in a binary AIR file.

There are a bunch of features that the newer simulators have that make CFS1 show up poorly:
Directional Propeller Rotation
Lateral and Directional Trim for Gauge Tokens
The ability to offset the CoG of the aircraft from the Origin of the visual model.
The magic sizing problem of stock versus add-on aircraft visual models.

Today, we look at AIR files as composed of many recognizable fields, but there are still many of the fields that have effects that we simply don't understand. People have spent years trying to decode these records and even now, every so often, I find that the interpretation of a field is not correct. This kind of a binary file is not something that the average person will have much success in editing without a great deal of guidance. I believe it makes more sense to limit the common edits to a simple text file.

In the last few months, I personally have hit at least three or four AIR files that do something that I can't figure out.
The Short Stirling seems to have a problem with starting Engine 4 when started in the air instead of on a runway.
I believe I have an idea why but don't want to spend the time to experiment.
The A6M2 by Steve Gandy seems to have a strange pitch down moment that I can't find the cause for. It can be tuned to have less effect, but still shows itself at times.
The ASh-82FN engine on the La-5FN that I am currently working on has an odd power curve that I suspect indicates that the real engine had a fuel or air restriction that limited power. There should be a way to simulate this not unusual situation but I don't know how to do it.
The Me109E-4 that was recently released originally lacked the ability to be steerable on the ground. I managed to edit the AIR file in a manner that enabled steering and didn't create handling that was too terrible but there is an rolling effect that is also there that should not be and if I try to tune that out, the ground handling gets much worse.

Keep in mind also that I have more experience than most people in working with AIR files and am still running into these issues.
You also have worked with AIR files for years and we still can't seem to agree on how to handle superchargers or propeller tables.

- Ivan.
 
Vanishing Post

Hello Aleatorylamp,

I saw a post from you this morning in this thread when I was on my iPad but didn't think it was worthwhile to respond without a real keyboard. Seems like you changed your mind about the message.

- Ivan.
 
Good day y'all. I'm still working on the 109 skin. I've downloaded 1% stock aircraft replacement mod and Ive only tried the hurricane so far and its quite sluggish compared to stock flight model. What do you guys think of it?
 
Hello Rince33,

The 1% Flight Model is probably better than the stock flight model though I can't say I have flown it.
The Hurricane wasn't really the most agile aircraft around. If you are interested, there are several flight evaluations available online of modern restored Hurricanes though I don't believe any of them are Mk.I types. There are a few surprising gotcha;s with the Hurricane.

As for the 1% concept, in my opinion, the idea wasn't too bad though it had its faults in implementation, but some of the data that it was based on was not particularly accurate. I spent a LOT of time trying to address some of the issues of faulty data especially with armament. Their engine tables are an interesting read, but are not particularly accurate when compared to the aircraft manuals for the aircraft for which I have done a comparison. The spreadsheets also do not give nearly enough information to actually build an engine with reasonable power curves.

As for an example of exactly why I do not have faith:
CFS1 only seems to handle Single Speed Superchargers.
For a Single Speed Supercharger, there is the power at Sea Level at maximum Manifold Pressure and power at Critical Altitude above which the Supercharger cannot maintain Sea Level Manifold Pressure. At that critical altitude, the engine output will be pretty comparable to its sea level output.
At Intermediate altitudes, its power may be slightly higher than at Sea Level.

With a Two Speed Supercharger, things are a bit different.
I will use the Shvetsov M-82FN engine from the La-5FN as an example.
At Sea Level, Maximum non WEP manifold pressure is 1000 mm Hg giving 1650 HP.
Critical Altitude for Low Blower is 1650 Meters. Above this, Low Speed cannot maintain Sea Level boost pressure.
Switching to High Blower doesn't work because that would supply more boost than the engine can tolerate.
IIRC, the Blower shift altitude is around 4000 Meters.
The engine power still increases slightly after the shift point and reaches its maximum at 4650 Meters (about 15,200 feet)
Above that, the Supercharger cannot maintain Sea Level Boost.
The problem though is that High Blower draws more power from the engine than Low Blower did and instead of 1650 HP with 1000 mm Hg of boost, it now only gives 1450 HP with the same boost.

From 1650 Meters to 4000 Meters, the real M-82FN engine will provide something BELOW 1650 HP.
It will exceed 1650 HP but only for a few hundred meters above Sea Level and a couple hundred meters above 4000 meters.

With our single speed CFS1 supercharger, There is a HUGE altitude range in which the engine power is higher than it should be: Probably from about 2500 feet to 15000 feet if we get the boost pressure correct.
If we try to get engine output correct, the excessive power probably happens from around 2500 feet to 12500 feet.

If we match speeds at Sea Level and at Critical Altitude, then we will exceed maximum speed at intermediate altitudes and probably by quite a lot.
My belief is that I would much rather have speed at Sea Level and Critical Altitude a bit lower than they should be and not have speeds at intermediate altitudes be quite as excessive.

If someone knows of a better method, please let me know.

- Ivan.
 
Hi Ivan.
Thanks for the detailed and illuminating reply. You've prompted me to read up a bit on hurricane engine performance.

I'll probably stick with the 1% model for a while and see how it plays out in the campaign.

How accurately does Cfs1 portray real world physics? If it's not that accurate then whatever flight data is used by the model, authentic or not, will be inacurate. Just wondering about this.


Cfs1 flight model does seem to fly differently to most older sims, there seems to be a bit more lateral movement in turns when trying to get on the tail of enemy ai which makes the process more difficult and more authentic I think. This is more pronounced in the 1% version where the rudder effects seem weaker.
 
Hello Rince33,

How accurately does Cfs1 portray real world physics? If it's not that accurate then whatever flight data is used by the model, authentic or not, will be inacurate. Just wondering about this.

From what I have heard and from my own limited experience, the simulator in CFS1 which isn't greatly different from later sims does a pretty fair job as long as the attitude of the aircraft is "Normal": More or less with the nose in the direction of travel. As soon as the aircraft starts tumbling, going sideways, backwards and presenting some other undefined profile to the "Airflow", the calculation of movement becomes questionable.
ALL desktop class flight simulators have this problem.
If you want to do better than this, you need to get the software that engineers and the military uses and that stuff from what I have heard is generally about the cost of a new car.

Within the capabilities of the desktop simulators, the accuracy of the flight model has a pretty great effect on how "correctly" the virtual aeroplane will mimic the handling and performance of the real aircraft. Often the data that is needed isn't available so we as designers need to take a best guess. There are also many ways to get the same effect. This is why I commented that Aleatorylamp and I didn't agree on Superchargers or Propeller Tables. I believe I am correct and he probably believes he is correct.

As for "Data" on handling, the P-39 Airacobra that we each designed is a pretty good example. We both have heard that the aircraft had a CoG that was too far aft when unloaded and that it was unstable. We each took a different approach.
I went through a lot of reports and believe my flight model mimics the behaviour pretty well with characteristics I expect to find.
He probably did something similar. The big question here is what does "unstable" mean to each of us? None of us has actually flown an Airacobra.
The differences in interpretations means the results we each got were quite different.

Cfs1 flight model does seem to fly differently to most older sims, there seems to be a bit more lateral movement in turns when trying to get on the tail of enemy ai which makes the process more difficult and more authentic I think. This is more pronounced in the 1% version where the rudder effects seem weaker.

The AIR file in CFS1 has a lot more ability to control stability and moments in various directions than prior flight models such as FS98. Whether it is done correctly for a particular aircraft is another story entirely. I have heard that various stock aircraft were intended to be flown with different simulator settings. The "Easy" setting makes aircraft much more stable and I believe the Hurricane was actually intended for that. When stability is generally reduced in the "Hard" simulator setting, perhaps the flight model (AIR File) isn't a good match with what the simulator is doing.

Just about all the issues you are describing can be pretty seriously altered by editing the AIR file in the correct places.
As for the 1% business, all their system really addresses is straight line performance. They do not make any claims to addressing handling and I believe that handling affects the perception of agility and maneuverability much more so than straight line performance. (How many players complain that the Me 109G is 100 MPH too fast???)
I can give you two aircraft that have the same maximum speeds, climb rates, stall speeds, ceiling, etc. with one that you can aim instinctively, maneuver in tight places, and is a killer in a close in dogfight and another that can't do any of those just by tuning the handling a bit.
This is actually what I spent a couple hours doing for the La-5FN two days ago. The original version was much too responsive and agile and didn't have the gotchas that the real one did. I am still not done and even when I am, the result will be subject to debate: When the report says the ailerons get stiff at about 370 MPH, HOW much roll rate is lost???? I don't really know so I have to guess a bit.

- Ivan.
 
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