Chinese GP 2013: Will the seb hit the fan..?

[Ferry_vO]

Qualifying results:

Pos	No	Driver	Team	Q1	Q2	Q3	Laps
1	10	Lewis Hamilton	Mercedes	1:35.793	1:35.078	1:34.484	9
2	7	Kimi Räikkönen	Lotus-Renault	1:37.046	1:35.659	1:34.761	11
3	3	Fernando Alonso	Ferrari	1:36.253	1:35.148	1:34.788	12
4	9	Nico Rosberg	Mercedes	1:35.959	1:35.537	1:34.861	9
5	4	Felipe Massa	Ferrari	1:35.972	1:35.403	1:34.933	12
6	8	Romain Grosjean	Lotus-Renault	1:36.929	1:36.065	1:35.364	9
7	19	Daniel Ricciardo	STR-Ferrari	1:36.993	1:36.258	1:35.998	15
8	5	Jenson Button	McLaren-Mercedes	1:36.667	1:35.784	2:05.673	12
9	1	Sebastian Vettel	Red Bull Racing-Renault	1:36.537	1:35.343		13
10	11	Nico Hulkenberg	Sauber-Ferrari	1:36.985	1:36.261		11
11	14	Paul di Resta	Force India-Mercedes	1:37.478	1:36.287		9
12	6	Sergio Perez	McLaren-Mercedes	1:36.952	1:36.314		10
13	15	Adrian Sutil	Force India-Mercedes	1:37.349	1:36.405		11
14	2	Mark Webber	Red Bull Racing-Renault	1:36.148	1:36.679		6
15	16	Pastor Maldonado	Williams-Renault	1:37.281	1:37.139		10
16	18	Jean-Eric Vergne	STR-Ferrari	1:37.508	1:37.199		12
17	17	Valtteri Bottas	Williams-Renault	1:37.769			3
18	12	Esteban Gutierrez	Sauber-Ferrari	1:37.990			5
19	22	Jules Bianchi	Marussia-Cosworth	1:38.780			6
20	23	Max Chilton	Marussia-Cosworth	1:39.537			3
21	20	Charles Pic	Caterham-Renault	1:39.614			6
22	21	Giedo van der Garde	Caterham-Renault	1:39.660			6
		Q1 107% Time		1:42.498

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Note - Mark Webber moved to the back of the grid for failing to provide a one-litre fuel sample after qualifying




Well at least Mark won't be anywhere near Vettel this race....

Great job by the other Aussie on the grid though, Ricciardo starting seventh tomorrow.
Will be interesting to see how the top seven will cope with the softer tires, which seem unlikely to last more than a few laps. Button and Vettel will be starting on the harder compound tire. Raikkonen might have a chance if he can do a few more laps on the softs.

 

[wombat666]

I'd lay money on Webber starting in pit lane on the harder rubber and maybe going right up to the front, even doing two places higher than last time.

Interested to see a rule clarification on the MD teams hydraulically adjustable suspension, sounds like 'Active' suspension to me.
The tyre situation is becoming a very bad joke, as is the 'Qualifying'.
About time Pirelli supplied one medium/hard, one intermediate and one monsoon compound, none of this high degrading 'super soft' crap.

 

[Jafo]

I don't mind the tyre issue...at least every driver has this same curse...whereas only Webber has Vettel...

What's the bet Vettel can't handle being so far back and buggers it up via turn one.... and yes, hopefully Webber will start from pitlane and have a big enough gap from impending doom...er...his teammate.

Even in Melbourne the tyres were leaving chunks big enough to have me watching them [the chunks] in case they were 'something else' that was an actual 'debris' ... but Pirelli has provided what was asked for ...namely 'interesting' compounds...

 

[Panther_99FS]

Interested to see a rule clarification on the MD teams hydraulically adjustable suspension, sounds like 'Active' suspension to me.

And therein lies a core issue - originality & innovation.
I see it F1 becoming very much just another spec series.....(if it arguably isn't one already)

 

[Jafo]

And therein lies a core issue - originality & innovation.
I see it F1 becoming very much just another spec series.....(if it arguably isn't one already)

But that's the whole trick with F1....it's the 'interpretation' of the rules that fuels the innovation.

A rule comes out 'limiting' speed...or cost...or keeping the teams on an equitable playing field....and instantly "minds superior to ours".... work out ways to push the envelope...and get ahead of the opposition.


Racing has always been like that...ever since touring cars were required to have a spare wheel in the boot...so they made them out of fibreglass....

...

 

[wombat666]

I see it F1 becoming very much just another spec series.....(if it arguably isn't one already)

It certainly is Ed.
All V8 engines, all with the same block configuration, the crankshaft is length regulated, valve angles are fixed, ECU is standard ................... it just goes on and on.
I'd welcome the return of cutting edge cars like the 1993 Williams FW15C, arguably the most advanced Formula 1 car of the 'modern' era.

 

[Ferry_vO]

Interested to see a rule clarification on the MD teams hydraulically adjustable suspension, sounds like 'Active' suspension to me.

Looks like they had a good look at the original Mini's suspension..

 

[Panther_99FS]

It certainly is Ed.
All V8 engines, all with the same block configuration, the crankshaft is length regulated, valve angles are fixed, ECU is standard ................... it just goes on and on.
I'd welcome the return of cutting edge cars like the 1993 Williams FW15C, arguably the most advanced Formula 1 car of the 'modern' era.

No debate from me here....

 

[Ferry_vO]

1993? Only memorable race from that season was Donington, where Senna started fifth in the rain and was leading at the end of the first lap.

Great race from Alonso today, looked like a dominant win. Another good run by Raikkonen despite some damage to his car, and Hamilton barely making it to the podium despite a late challenge from Vettel who was on a different strategy. Bad luck for Webber and Rosberg though, both failing to finish the race. Ricciardo did an excellent job bringing home the STR in seventh.
The Mexicans not showing good form this season though, with Perez a bleak eleventh, and Gutierrez crashing both himself and Sutil out of the race. He'll get a five-place penalty for that in Bahrein; Webber gets three places for his crash with Vergne. RBR will probably get fined for not properly fitting a wheel to Webber's car.

More penalties could be coming though as quite a few drivers used the DRS under yellow flags while marshalls were busy cleaning up the remains of Gutierrez' car. Drivers under investigation include Raikkonen. I'm under the impression that race control can disable DRS from the outside, but as we've seen in Australia and Malaysia the system wasn't exactly reliable.

So these are still unofficial results:

Pos	No	Driver	Team	Laps	Time/Retired	Grid	Pts
1	3	Fernando Alonso	Ferrari	56	1:36:26.945	3	25
2	7	Kimi Räikkönen	Lotus-Renault	56	+10.1 secs	2	18
3	10	Lewis Hamilton	Mercedes	56	+12.3 secs	1	15
4	1	Sebastian Vettel	Red Bull Racing-Renault	56	+12.5 secs	9	12
5	5	Jenson Button	McLaren-Mercedes	56	+35.2 secs	8	10
6	4	Felipe Massa	Ferrari	56	+40.8 secs	5	8
7	19	Daniel Ricciardo	STR-Ferrari	56	+42.6 secs	7	6
8	14	Paul di Resta	Force India-Mercedes	56	+51.0 secs	11	4
9	8	Romain Grosjean	Lotus-Renault	56	+53.4 secs	6	2
10	11	Nico Hulkenberg	Sauber-Ferrari	56	+56.5 secs	10	1
11	6	Sergio Perez	McLaren-Mercedes	56	+63.8 secs	12
12	18	Jean-Eric Vergne	STR-Ferrari	56	+72.6 secs	15
13	17	Valtteri Bottas	Williams-Renault	56	+93.8 secs	16
14	16	Pastor Maldonado	Williams-Renault	56	+95.4 secs	14
15	22	Jules Bianchi	Marussia-Cosworth	55	+1 Lap	18
16	20	Charles Pic	Caterham-Renault	55	+1 Lap	20
17	23	Max Chilton	Marussia-Cosworth	55	+1 Lap	19
18	21	Giedo van der Garde	Caterham-Renault	55	+1 Lap	21
Ret	9	Nico Rosberg	Mercedes	21	+35 Laps	4
Ret	2	Mark Webber	Red Bull Racing-Renault	15	+41 Laps	22
Ret	15	Adrian Sutil	Force India-Mercedes	5	Accident	13
Ret	12	Esteban Gutierrez	Sauber-Ferrari	4	Accident	17

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[Ferry_vO]

No further penalties for those that overtook with DRS so the results above are final. RBR fined $5000 for the loose wheel on Webber's car.

 

[Panther_99FS]

1993? Only memorable race from that season was Donington, where Senna started fifth in the rain and was leading at the end of the first

Wombat was talking about the innovation of the Williams (something that's declined as F1 becomes more "spec" like of a series) - not the races. :mixedsmi:

 

[Ferry_vO]

And you don't think the boring races were the result of one team being (too) far ahead in technology...?

 

[Panther_99FS]

And you don't think the boring races were the result of one team being (too) far ahead in technology...?

Innovation & technology is the essence of F1 - hence why the constructor's championship is so important. If one team is far above the others,
then so be it.

Constrict innovation & technology and F1 becomes no different than IndyCar.....This is why we'll never see the likes of another 6 wheel Tyrrell, active suspension, V10 vs V12 engines, etcetera...

 

[aeronca1]

Innovation & technology is the essence of F1 - hence why the constructor's championship is so important. If one team is far above the others, then so be it.

HeHe, great minds think alike!

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforu...-of-Austosport&p=797385&viewfull=1#post797385

 

[Panther_99FS]

HeHe, great minds think alike!

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforu...-of-Austosport&p=797385&viewfull=1#post797385

:ernae::mixedsmi:

I no longer pay attention to each year's new car release because the innovation just isn't there like it used to be....

 

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

I didn't watch any of it with the Master's on. That said F1 is of course a fast becoming a pure spec series - has to be - probably many of the same concerns as with NASCAR - speed, can't allow dominance, etc are in play as in NASCAR. I know the past was different but people and circumstance change - to ever more being about entertainment and the show - inequality does not put on a good show.

Now the comment I did not make last week but will now was about the definition of the word team. A team should absolutely be defined as driver, car and that car's support team - NOT - the constructor. You see then you avoid the team orders and predetermined finishing order. They (whoever they is - FIA?) should take the spotlight OFF the constructor when dealing with an evolving spec series thus making it a credible series.

The real innovation era is over - get over it.

-Ed-

 

[Panther_99FS]

The real innovation era is over - get over it.

-Ed-

The other side of the token is that with the amazingly strict rules compared to "yesterday", the technology is still a marvel to us mere mortals....:mixedsmi:
This is continuously demonstrated each year by Adrian Newey & his design team....
(which brings us right back to the importance of the constructor's championship)

 

[Panther_99FS]

Edit: Patrick Head is well aware of what happens to your team when your design & innovation dries up.....And conversely, Ross Brawn & Jenson Button understand what happens when your design team makes an innovative leap above everyone else...

 

[Jafo]

Hey All,

The real innovation era is over - get over it.

-Ed-

No it isn't.

The Formula [yes, it is one] is in constant revision.

Most rules are to assist in making it affordable and thus competitive for at least a few more than the 'big two' [technically there are only two constants...with a new third every now and then].
All the other rules are to control speed extremes aka very real danger to both competitor AND public.

A truly 'unlimited' category without formula rules would simply be lethal. It'd end up being a case of...don't worry about the nomex suits...better off with fighter pilot's G-suits as blacking out would be more likely than burning. Imagine a drag car that goes around corners...and doesn't necessarily deploy a chute to stop....

I remember pitlane where my eyes were constantly tearing up from the exotic fuels some were playing with until that too was restricted.

And danger? My wife was at turn 3 at Albert Park [I was at 9] when Graham Beverage was hit and killed by a wheel, yes, I remember his name, just as I remember the 2 hours or so it took me to determine it wasn't my wife in the Ambo.....[I knew more than many what was happening...I was on comms at the time]

Spectators want spectacle...and to be close to it .... that is until they're also hit by schrapnel and want to sue....

About the only thing they still 'get wrong' is the effort to make cars 'affordable' the restrictions imposed cause teams even more expense to attempt to [and succeed] circumvent and gain an advantage....

 

[Jafo]

The other side of the token is that with the amazingly strict rules compared to "yesterday", the technology is still a marvel to us mere mortals....:mixedsmi:
This is continuously demonstrated each year by Adrian Newey & his design team....
(which brings us right back to the importance of the constructor's championship)

Yes, some say the modern era F1 is all lumps and winglets...and no longer a 'noble' shape....like maybe in Senna/McLaren days... but I see them as function defining form....but somehow keeping them 'interesting' and stylish.

The only annoying bit is how they're constantly raising the noses and reducing anyone's ability to actually find and/or read a car number.

Let's face it.... Race Officials are third-class citizens....