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Coffman starter effect

B

Bill Kestell

Charter Member
OK ... I was doing some reading about the Coffman starter system (shot-gun starter) and it seems that MOST allied aircraft (ourselves and British) used this system. Batteries were apparently heavy and unreliable in the 1930's - 40's and the hand-cranked inertia system (Luftwaffe) required a large and heavy flywheel. I saw a rebuilt Fw-190D being started and by the time the ground crew and pilot got it started ... they were pooped!

The Japanese Army (maybe land-based Naval units too) used the Hucks starter ... truck-mounted engine with a notched starter shaft sticking out over the front of the truck that would be mated to the same fitting on the spinner of the aircraft engine to be started ... then engaged to turn the engine over.

Anyway ... if any of you have seen FLIGHT OF THE PHOENIX you get a good tutorial on just how the Coffman system works. I like that snotty "BANG"! that gets things turning 'round and 'round and
just want to ask Helldiver or Cowboy or any of you guys who are into the finer aspects of what makes 'em work ... can you:

list the aircraft known to have Coffman starters

how difficult to this to add to the respective sound package

Speaking of adding to sound packages, I'd like to have that nice tire landing chirp in the sound folders as well and need to know how to do this.

Any help will be appreciated. You don't have to do it for me ... just tutor me and turn me loose ... I'm my own worst enemy!

Thanks and Cheers:friday:
 
I'm pretty sure that we have an add on Coffman starter wave sound in the library. I can't remember the author's name though, but it is as realistic and is probably possible and makes cranking the old radials over kind of fun.

If you can't find it, and now one else knows the link, send me a PM.
 
Howdy Bill;

Check out Philippe Burnage's Typhoon and Tempest, both used the Coffman and Lawdog's Typhoon Audio package has the sounds to go with it. You get the Bang and then the Engine start up. There is also a sound package by Carl-Olof-Sandberg for the T-n-T.
 
Lawdog's sound pack for the Brewster F2A has the coffman starter sound file in it...and a sound file for the inertia starter as well. I think his Corsair package also has the coffman starter. Yep, just checked and it does. F6F does too. The F2A coffman file is softer, the F6F is very sharp and loud, the Corsair someplace in the middle.

Tire chirp: Lawdog's DB601 package has a very nice set of touch down files. Left, right and tail wheels have individual files. Very chirpy...which is good for landing on asphalt or concrete runways...not so good for dirt or grass ones.

OBIO

Okay...just re-read your post Bill. Adding the Coffman starter to a package is easy. Copy the files (internal and external starter files) and paste it into the sound pack you want to use it in.....then open the sound config file and look for the section dealing with the start up files and see what the files in that package are named. Find them and rename them...add STOCK to the beginning of the name...then rename the coffman starter files to match the names of the original files. Ta Da you have coffman starter.

Adding the chirps: This is can be done exactly like adding the coffman sounds....if the package you are working with is set up for touch down sounds. Open the sound config file and look for these sections (copied from Lawdog's DB601 package):

[left_touchdown]
filename=toucl
panning=-10000
initial_volume=10000
maximum_volume=10000

[right_touchdown]
filename=toucr
panning=10000
initial_volume=10000
maximum_volume=10000

[center_touchdown]
filename=toucc
panning=0
initial_volume=10000
maximum_volume=10000

If the package has this section, replace with this one and copy the three files (toucl, toucr and toucc) from the DB601 package and paste into the sound package you are working on. Just like that, you have tire chirps on landing.
 
Well...

I got these from "LD", ...whoever that is...

EDIT: oh ya, ...probably Law Dog...

For the DB Corsair, ...but you could re-name it for any cartridge-start radial...

...or just cut'N'paste the "Bang" into the front of the start.wave of the chosen A/C using the MS windows std. accessories "Sound Recorder".


Note: This is NOT a pdf file...

Just remove the ".pdf" from the end of the file to convert it back into a "zip", ...and drop'em into your DB Corsair/Sound folder.

costarta.wav
xcostarta.wav

Enjoy.
 
:friday:OUT-STANDING!

Gentlemen ... thanks for the info and, Obio ... thanks for the tute!

Jadg ... I'll shoot you over a pm in case you turn up something other than what's been posted ... and thanks for your interest as well.

It just gets better and better ... don't it?:applause:

Cheers, Bill
 
As far as Navy aircraft, It was the Grummans that used the English design Coffman starter. I worked with someone about a year ago designing a F6-F and they got a very convincing Coffman in it.
Very seldom would she start from a cold engine. It took at least two firings. Sometimes more. A warm engine would catch the first time.
The problem you had with them was still-fires. Each cartrige was a blank 12 guage shotgun shell. There were six of them, When you opened it up, on the belly of the airplane and go to reach for one, it could blow your fingers off.
I used a sawed off broom handle to extract spent cartridges. There was a tell-tale puff of black smoke when they fired, coming from the belly of an airplane. Thank God only the Grummans used the Coffmans.
I never liked the darn things. You'd go to move an airplane and there would be two cartridges left and she wouldn't start. Now climbing in and out of a F6-F is quite a chore. You crawl under it. clean out the spent cartridges, plug in the new ones and then clamber way back into the cockpit and start all over again.
 
Believe it...

...or not, the B-52 is (or at least they were when I served) equipped with a cartridge start system on the number 5 engine. When that one was running, you could use a bleed-air system to turnover the remaining 7 engines.

The 'cartridge' closely resembles a very over-sized shotgun shell, and the 'magazine' held 5 of these.

The system wasn't any more reliable in reality than it was in the movie. :wavey:
 
Coffman Cartridge-Start Windows XP...

Start-Carts?!? ....we don't need no stinkin' Start-Carts!...


1. Remove the ".pdf" from the end of both file names to convert them back into a "zip" files.

2. Un-zip (or explore) and copy both(2) .wav files into your:

C:/WINDOWS/MEDIA folder

Note: this is for XP, ...different OS may very...

3. Then select:

Control Panel/Sounds and Audio Devices/Sounds tab/

And...

4. Click on:
"Start Windows"

...Then choose from the drop-down select menu:
"Start Windows-ACM.wav"

Next...

5.Click on:
"Exit Windows"

...and choose from the drop-down select menu:
"Exit Windows-ACM.wav"

6. Click the Apply button and you're done.

7. Enjoy.
 
Helldiver and TR... thanks ... this is the kind of first hand info that's interesting . The real world ... not well, it's supposed to work stuff!

BD ... thanks for all the zips ... more fun stuff for me to play:friday: with (damned sim is NEVER going to be finished ... ain't it a great hobby?)
 
When it comes to jets, which is beyond my ken, I know that the Canberra, an English airplane, used to use a Coffman starter. They used to use a lot of them, if you ever saw a bunch of them starting up. They would darken the sky forever. Al Gore would have had a fit!
 
Check out this page...images and sounds of the B-57. The starter cartridges were large black powder filled thingiemajigs....look at the flight line with a number of B-57s starting up. Check out the recorded sounds of the B-57 taxiing...sounds so alien and odd.

http://www.b-57canberra.org/b-57sounds.htm

OBIO
 
Yep...

OBIO said:
Check out this page...images and sounds of the B-57. The starter cartridges were large black powder filled thingiemajigs....look at the flight line with a number of B-57s starting up. Check out the recorded sounds of the B-57 taxiing...sounds so alien and odd.

http://www.b-57canberra.org/b-57sounds.htm

OBIO
Click to expand...

...that's what the start looks like, but the thing in the troop's hand is the cartridge holder, not the cartridge, and they are not full of black powder. :costumes:
 
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