Consolidated PBY-5 Catalina
- Thread starter Shessi
- Start date
A few things to consider.
As you say TB, that all or almost all the metal used would be coated in zinc yellow or green chromate, and then a standard paint job before leaving the factory (the dove/light grey?). And then re-sprayed when moved, a change in camo policy or 'ownership'.
Without modern H & S standards, the quality of the paint from the factory was probably very good, but in the field, not so. The chromate was electrolytically applied so lasted a long time, only after hundreds of boots clambering over the leading edge has it taken it back to bare metal.
And now the biggie...the simmers perception of what it all looks like in the sim. You cannot hypothesise what happens or what it looks like in the real world, and directly transpose that to the sim world, it just does not work like that.
How Fs9 and others sims handle light, and therefore reflection, shine, sheen etc is nothing like the real world (in fact Fs9 is pretty poor at it), so you have to interpolate ie make it work by basically 'fudging' it, or trial and error.
The other problem is that using poor quality colour or B&W photos as accurate datum points is a dangerous game. The biggest problem is that it is nearly impossible to accurately work out what the light conditions were or where the sun was, and therefore what colour, how flat, shiney or reflective a paint scheme was when the pic was taken. You can second-guess, based on data, and that's logical and reasonable, but would it look right in the sim? It also doesn't take into consideration the wear and tear of war life, wind and airbourne particles buffing surfaces, the stains; oily rag wipes, the washing down with a degreasing engine clean, salt water spray, poor carburetion or burning cordite staining.
And a huge pet hate of mine, people believing a matt paint finish is truely matt, it is not, there is always a level of sheen or shine in certain light conditions. Look at any sim ac that is 'flat' and then shined (even subtly), the difference is huge, one looking lifeless and unrealistic, the other more like the real thing, your eyes do not deceive you and you sense what looks more realistic and appealing. Try it out with a sim ac or even go and look at your car outside, in different light conditions and if it is an older car how a matt-er paint finish affects all this.
What's your view on the F117 Nighthawk...a very matt black ac?
From pic 1 to pic 6, same ac, same paint scheme/finish, but is it still a very matt black ac?
Back on subject...nearly done.....
Cheers
Shessi
As you say TB, that all or almost all the metal used would be coated in zinc yellow or green chromate, and then a standard paint job before leaving the factory (the dove/light grey?). And then re-sprayed when moved, a change in camo policy or 'ownership'.
Without modern H & S standards, the quality of the paint from the factory was probably very good, but in the field, not so. The chromate was electrolytically applied so lasted a long time, only after hundreds of boots clambering over the leading edge has it taken it back to bare metal.
And now the biggie...the simmers perception of what it all looks like in the sim. You cannot hypothesise what happens or what it looks like in the real world, and directly transpose that to the sim world, it just does not work like that.
How Fs9 and others sims handle light, and therefore reflection, shine, sheen etc is nothing like the real world (in fact Fs9 is pretty poor at it), so you have to interpolate ie make it work by basically 'fudging' it, or trial and error.
The other problem is that using poor quality colour or B&W photos as accurate datum points is a dangerous game. The biggest problem is that it is nearly impossible to accurately work out what the light conditions were or where the sun was, and therefore what colour, how flat, shiney or reflective a paint scheme was when the pic was taken. You can second-guess, based on data, and that's logical and reasonable, but would it look right in the sim? It also doesn't take into consideration the wear and tear of war life, wind and airbourne particles buffing surfaces, the stains; oily rag wipes, the washing down with a degreasing engine clean, salt water spray, poor carburetion or burning cordite staining.
And a huge pet hate of mine, people believing a matt paint finish is truely matt, it is not, there is always a level of sheen or shine in certain light conditions. Look at any sim ac that is 'flat' and then shined (even subtly), the difference is huge, one looking lifeless and unrealistic, the other more like the real thing, your eyes do not deceive you and you sense what looks more realistic and appealing. Try it out with a sim ac or even go and look at your car outside, in different light conditions and if it is an older car how a matt-er paint finish affects all this.
What's your view on the F117 Nighthawk...a very matt black ac?
From pic 1 to pic 6, same ac, same paint scheme/finish, but is it still a very matt black ac?
Back on subject...nearly done.....
Cheers
Shessi
Mick
SOH-CM-2025
Good points all. Methinks that the yellow showing through on those SBDs has to be zinc chromate yellow, since only the SBD-1 and a couple dozen of the earliest -2s ever wore the pre-camo livery with the yellow wings, and I think all the -1s and -2s were gone from the fleet very early on. I don't know for sure, but I think zc yellow would have been used as a primer on the whole plane before the final color coats were applied.
As for the Cats, I don't think I'll try to have other camo colors showing through where the black is worn off. It's not as easy as it looks to simulate such wear realistically, and it's all so speculative, especially considering the multiple layers of paint under the black, that I think I'll just stick with what AS gave us (with the requisite file name changes, of course.) There's no sense making a lot of extra work based just on speculation. I might try it if I knew for sure just what to do.
I wonder if, as the war progressed and night operations became more common, if later black Cats were finished in actual black paint before being sent to operational squadrons that were flying at night.
BTW, according to the Air Force, the "black" color used on the Lockheed Blackbird series, and almost certainly the same paint used on Lockheed's F-117, wasn't actually black at all. They say it was really an extremely dark "Indigo Blue." But I've never heard or read that anyone who saw one up close, even in sunlight, thought they looked anything but black. It's been written that the paint on the Blackbirds lost its blue cast when it got cooked as the plane flew at high speed with such high skin temperatures. But I never heard of anyone saying that the Nighthawks looked anything but black, and they didn't fly fast enough to cook their paint.
As for the Cats, I don't think I'll try to have other camo colors showing through where the black is worn off. It's not as easy as it looks to simulate such wear realistically, and it's all so speculative, especially considering the multiple layers of paint under the black, that I think I'll just stick with what AS gave us (with the requisite file name changes, of course.) There's no sense making a lot of extra work based just on speculation. I might try it if I knew for sure just what to do.
I wonder if, as the war progressed and night operations became more common, if later black Cats were finished in actual black paint before being sent to operational squadrons that were flying at night.
BTW, according to the Air Force, the "black" color used on the Lockheed Blackbird series, and almost certainly the same paint used on Lockheed's F-117, wasn't actually black at all. They say it was really an extremely dark "Indigo Blue." But I've never heard or read that anyone who saw one up close, even in sunlight, thought they looked anything but black. It's been written that the paint on the Blackbirds lost its blue cast when it got cooked as the plane flew at high speed with such high skin temperatures. But I never heard of anyone saying that the Nighthawks looked anything but black, and they didn't fly fast enough to cook their paint.