Crunch time- Win10, Win11, FS9, and you.

[mav]

Um, meanwhile.. I had something happen last night (10/15) that I didn't expect.
A Win 10 update.
Maybe the cut-off wasn't really the cut-off?

Yeh.... probably an EOL nag update to pop up and tell to get win 11. Lol

 

[zswobbie1]

You might still get updates, but Support has been stopped.

 

[huub vink]

Um, meanwhile.. I had something happen last night (10/15) that I didn't expect.
A Win 10 update.
Maybe the cut-off wasn't really the cut-off?

Are you using MS Defender as anti-virus? Because it might have been an update of the virus definitions.

Cheers,
Huub

 

[Mick]

You might still get updates, but Support has been stopped.

Drat! I thought we were finally free of updates and the worry that they would break some software or mess up my settings!

 

[zswobbie1]

Drat! I thought we were finally free of updates and the worry that they would break some software or mess up my settings!

Mick, Have you had any 'broken' updates?
I gotta admit that I'm somewhat lucky!
Fingers crossed, I've never had a broken update, from Windows 7, 8.1, 10 & now 11.

 

[wolfebee89]

Um, meanwhile.. I had something happen last night (10/15) that I didn't expect.
A Win 10 update.
Maybe the cut-off wasn't really the cut-off?

That was the last of the Patch Tuesday combined feature and security updates for Windows 10! If registered for / enrolled in Windows 10 ESU Program, then going forward, will only receive security updates / OS security fixes until October 13, 2026; no further feature updates unfortunately!

 

[Mick]

Mick, Have you had any 'broken' updates?
I gotta admit that I'm somewhat lucky!
Fingers crossed, I've never had a broken update, from Windows 7, 8.1, 10 & now 11.

It's been a while since a bit of software stopped working after an update -maybe even back to the Win7pro days before I got my Win10 rig up and running. But it's been fairly common to find settings scrambled, not a disaster but very annoying!

 

[Sbob]

Are you using MS Defender as anti-virus? Because it might have been an update of the virus definitions.

Cheers,
Huub

Huub; I'm pretty certain you and wolfebee are correct and I do run Defender as my A/V software.

I can also understand Mick's point. I've had some "graphics" updates that messed up my ground textures (aka the "sparkly" ground texture problem) and also made the shading on my gray-tone aircraft a LOT darker. This was probably due to a graphics driver update or a core Windows update that messed up my drivers. I think a lot of this can come down to what type and brand of graphics card you might have installed.
As Mick wrote, it isn't a disaster but its annoying.

 

[Sbob]

So, as a related update:

*WAAAH*, my Purple Performance mode is now blue.
This isn't a big deal, it just means Samsung has a new update for its Magician software.
I run a Samsung SSD in this (Win10) rig and an M.2 in its younger Win11 cousin.

If you configure your Samsung drives for Performance Mode and Over-provisioning, the Magician background screen would have purple highlights. This has been updated to a more generic blue.
I had a feeling that an update was on the way, there were reports of a Win11 update that was causing drive meltdowns although I haven't noticed any problems. Why there are different modes has always puzzled me. If you run a portable device I can see it, on a desktop PC it doesn't compute. The Over-provisioning stuff is neat. If Win needs it, 10% of the drive can be used as system RAM. Which could come in handy if I ever decide to fly a "cover-the-globe" flight to check on all of the AI and scenery.

 

[Sbob]

Meanwhile,.

I have a couple of questions:

-When did M$ move to India? I can understand why you want to employ the cheapest people possible (unfortunately, I've been downsized a couple of times) but I'm concerned the whole "remote" concept can cause problems.
Let's be honest, NO ONE enjoys training their replacement unless they're getting ready to retire.

-What if M$ decides to target everything that isn't Win11? Not a big deal if you never connect your PC to the WWW, BUT you are reading this on a web site forum.

-What happens three years from now if Win11 turns into a total brick that NO ONE wants to use?

I'll be honest. I typed this post on my old "daily driver" Win10 machine. I got the "new hotness" Win11 machine months ago and it still sits on the floor plugged into the wall. I fire up the new machine every couple of weeks, mostly to do updates. I LOVE the new hardware. Its fast (compared to this machine) and the storage is massive (and fast as well). I just don't use it and I love having new stuff to play with.

I have to use AI to search for, pretty much, everything. Even on this old Win10 machine.
I'm not impressed. I want to find repaints for some odd-ball airplanes. AI tells me that FS.com and AVSIM are very popular web sites.
Well, no ####. Do they have the repaints I'm search for? How about, oh, maybe a link I can use? Something besides an opinion?
What if "we" re-think this AI stuff and leave it for the Bitcoin Bros. who actually want it? Teachers hate AI. Students love it until their papers come back coated in red ink. The rest of us (IMO) don't really care and hate doing a two second search in only 20 minutes.

 

[Mick]

... What happens three years from now if Win11 turns into a total brick that NO ONE wants to use? ...

That's the impression I got of it after a test drive when it was first released! And I know a couple other folks who thought the same thing.

A friend who's a computer tech has a theory that MS has two development teams that work on alternate versions of Windows. One is composed of smart, skilled developers who produce good operating systems, and one that gave us Vista, Win8 (original version) and now Win11. I think he might be onto something.

Consider: I had Win98 on my first confutor and it was good. Millennium was just 98 with a few new bells & whistles. Win XP was excellent. WIn8.0 was terrible. Win 10 was good. Win11 is terrible. There seems to be a pattern there.

 

[zswobbie1]

Dunno....
I've been an early adopter of the OS, & I keep it matched to my PC's hardware.
I've been from Windows 7 to 8, then 8.1. Then to Windows 10.
My current laptop is 3 years old, & had 11 installed, & I've kept it updated.
So far, (thankfully), I have never had any software or OS issues at all.
Maybe I'm the odd one out, being happy with W11.....
BUT... my Start Menu & Task bar is replaced with 'Start11' & I'm using 'OneCommander' as my File Manager replacement - far better & more useful than the default File Manager.
I'm using 'Flow Launcher' as a program launcher - It launches with a shortcut, or a spare button on my mouse, & it lists my programs as I start typing.
I'm also using 'QuickAccessPopup' that, launches a custom menu when I press the mouse wheel.
I'm also using Windhawk & Rainmeter to tweak visuals on my desktop. Yes, I know, eye-candy, but I like it!

So, with all that, I do not use my Start Menu or Task Bar.
As my laptop only has a 500GB SSD, I'm using a portable 2TB drive as my main storage, even running FS2004 & P3D from it.
I'm a great believer that software must match the hardware, so running W11 on an old PC is obviously not recommended. Likewise new hardware with old software.
& I stayed away from Me & Vista for obvious reasons.
I remember running XP on a 10' Samsung Netbook - a little beauty in white, until I spilt coffee over the keyboard & fried it. I pulled the hardrive & used it in a case as a portable drive for many years.

I started with a Tandy/Radio Shack TRS-80 - the days before PC's as we know them, then my first box PC was Windows 3.1!
Ahhh -- the good old days!!

 

[Naismith]

Was Windows 3.1 newbie here also (before had an Amiga). First PC was a DX2 with 50 MB Hard Drive. I remember the constant struggle with the Config.sys and autoexec.bat trying to free up enough memory so I could run "Tornado" and "Falcon 3" in the limited 640K of RAM. And it really was happy days. Nowadays I just cannot be bothered to learn DCS and IL2 Great Battles (have them but they sit unloved on the HD). So I stick with FSXSE. Who has the time?

 

[Sbob]

So, its time for an update on PC's in general and the news looks...bad??

Paul's all about the clip art these days but the market has changed.

I try to set up new stuff so its not really "Future Proof" but "Future Workable".
My last three desktops started out as either "Small Biz" or "Back To School" specials.
I like these builds, especially the Small Biz units. You get the basics and the hardware is usually VERY stout. They are also wired for just about ANYTHING you could plug into a mother board. The cabling is a nightmare but its nice to have options.
Biz units need their own built-in longevity. They tend to get daily-driven for MANY years, a feature I like.
You don't get a room full of LEDs and bells and whistles and the hardware is stout but not very exciting.
By Stout I mean that my newer i5 rig had some very nice surprises when I started to run it. The CPU clock is VERY happy to run at speeds above 4 GHz when it encounters a load. Since this is the FS2004 forum, 4 Gig is a VERY big deal. Its normal "idle" clock is usually somewhere around 2-3 Gig with a very basic low power cooling fan.

When I first set up the i5 PC I opted for a VERY cheap and basic GPU card. I planned to eventually update the GPU to something that was more capable DEPENDING ON WHAT I WOULD NEED. That day finally arrived and I swapped-in an RTX 3050 GPU. After losing some sleep during the install and driver update I'm pretty happy with what I've got.

The point of this post is that THINGS HAVE CHANGED. Shop for a GPU and take note of how much of a hassle it has become. Not just GPUs, RAM and storage have also gone through the roof. The 1 TB M.2 drive I bought last year for $65 is now $275.
I was walking to the store the other day and gasoline in central Iowa is over $5 per gallon. Try walking out of a grocery without spending $100 on basic weekly stuff. Its getting tough. BTW, NO POLITICS in this thread, please. I have my own views and beliefs and they have NOTHING to do with current prices. Politics, to me, is like our version of "don't ask, don't tell" back when I rode on submarines. Back then, all I really cared about was if you knew what you were doing and you didn't show up for your watch late or dragging a bunch of drama. You had problems with your division or in-laws, the wife or the kids? That's too bad, take your watch and try not to kill the rest of us.

Anyway, I though I'd go through the process of why an RTX 3050 got delivered to my door.
I had been shopping off-and-on for a long-term GPU for a while. Since the i5 machine is pretty basic, that meant the actual footprint of the hardware and its power needs were important. I didn't want to break out a hack saw to modify the case and the power supply is adequate for this type of build. Meaning, do your homework. Make sure what you plan to buy can be installed without major cutting or clouds of smoke.

The BIGGEST thing that drives your GPU is the output. In my case I'm very happy running a single 1920 X 1080 display at 60 Hz. When you jump up to 4K, things get complicated. I have an option to run a second monitor with the RTX 3050 which I highly doubt I'll ever use. Still, its there and its part of the compromises I had to make. The 3050 is "so 2022", its now old tech by today's standards. It also fits the bill for what I NEEDED. Price wound up being the big motivator. Things are NOT getting cheaper and it got to the point where if I waited longer, it might be a LOT more expensive or it might not be available. What I mentioned about my M.2 selling for $200 more than what I paid for it hits me like I'm kicking myself in the pants ("I should have bought two, I should have bought two").

 

[Sbob]

As an update to ^^^, check this out:

The big impact to US is what's important.
For example, I'm happy with the new GPU for the i5 machine. I had to drop $200 to get it, but I'm not dis-appointed.
Do I drop another $200 for this (i3) machine and buy a second GPU?
At this point, do the prices even matter if the availability is skechy?

 

[tommieboy]

I've come to the sad realization that "future proofing" (for me) means stocking up on those long rubber bands for my eventual return to rubber band airplanes. And if my budget can't handle that, I'll have to downgrade to folded paper airplanes.

My flight simming imploded when Steam pulled the plug on Windows 7 and 8 users.



Tommy

 

[Sbob]

I've come to the sad realization that "future proofing" (for me) means stocking up on those long rubber bands for my eventual return to rubber band airplanes. And if my budget can't handle that, I'll have to downgrade to folded paper airplanes.

My flight simming imploded when Steam pulled the plug on Windows 7 and 8 users.



Tommy

Tell Steam to $#%^ off.
Dig around on EBay and you can still find FS9 disks to buy. I found the "Tin Box" set that had never been opened, I still see the same edition available from time-to-time.
Install it then download the two patches (FS9.1 and the "no CD" patch).
If you want to stick with Win7, 8, or XP, you can still do it as long as you keep up with some basic maintenance on the mother board.
Going on-line with that machine might become an issue, but you CAN still run it.
FSX, P#D, and the modern versions? I stopped being interested once FS9 came out. FS9 (and FS2002) gives me what I want and it keeps my hardware purchases to a lower budget.

 

[zswobbie1]

Not sure why Steam is an issue, as it never hosted FS9.
Anyway..
New & modern PC's & laptops very often do not have CD/DVD drives, so I had to use 'alternate' ways to get FS9 onto (or is it into) my Windows 11 laptop.
Obviously, FS2004 works perfectly within Windows 11, subject to a few caveats (of course!)
It is all over the 'net (Google it) how to install it.
Just Google 'FS2004 Windows 1116bit'
Then there is a 4GB patch to download & Run.
This utility allows older 32bit applications to use up to 4GB instead of 2GB of virtual memory on 64bit operating systems.
Without this utility, FS2004 will use a total of 4GB memory, SHARED with the memory of the GPU.
With it, FS2004 uses 4GB & the GPU's memory is NOT combined.

Remember that FS2004, being a 32bit application will only use a MAXIMUM of 4GB of your total memory, irrespective of how much memory you have in your PC
I've tried FSX many times & always dumped it.

However.. I'm also running P3Dv4.5 as it is the last version that is FSX compatible. Especially for the range of Fire Fighting aircraft available for it.
And to make simming more interesting, I'm running my 3 unique versions of FS2004 & my P3D off portable drives that are permanently plugged in. - No lags at all!!

 

[Sbob]

Not sure why Steam is an issue, as it never hosted FS9.

That just shows how much software I've purchased from Steam.

Good point bringing up the 4 Gig patch, I always forget it.
In fact, I'm trying to remember if I ran it on the Win11 machine. FS on Win11 almost acts like it doesn't need the 4Gig patch.
Of course, I haven't done a full transfer of all the files and folders yet. I could try doing a "bulk import" of my Win10 main folders but I could also do a better one-at-a-time transfer and ask myself which aircraft and scenery folders I just don't use.

I don't understand a lot of the "hassles" getting FS9 to run on Win10 and 11.
You mostly need the "No CD Crack" but its painless to install (once you find it).
You'll also need the FS9.1 update but, again, its painless and after that you're off to the races.

I've found FS9 (and FS2002) very easy to work with in the newer OS's.
When I was setting up the Win10 installs, I did full-auto installs. Partially because my "gut" told me it was the safest way and mostly because I was lazy. Later, I wanted to move both main folders out of "MS Games (X86)" and on to the main C: drive. Instead of deleting everything, I wanted to see what would happen if I just dragged the main folders to their new locations. It was a piece of cake, no issues at all (just update the shortcuts).

On the newer Win11 machine I did full manual installs. Again, no drama.
Older versions of FS are VERY compatible with Win10 and 11. Sometimes I'm tempted to install FS98 but I think this is a case of letting memories stay as memories. I ran FS98 on a 486 with a CRT and a SoundBlaster card. That was a long time ago.

Ah jeez, one last thing I tend forget. M$ does a good job auto-correcting early FS hassles. If you're having "kick-out" or "drop-out" issues after a new install, sometimes its better to just find something else to putter with for a couple of days. Windows will generate error files and M$ can usually correct them remotely. In my experience, this usually happens over night or, at most, within three to ten days.

I've seen folks hit the panic button and start throwing the kitchen sink at an issue when all they had to do was step away for a while.

 

[tommieboy]

Not sure why Steam is an issue, as it never hosted FS9.

Not sure why Steam is an issue, as it never hosted FS9.
Anyway..
New & modern PC's & laptops very often do not have CD/DVD drives, so I had to use 'alternate' ways to get FS9 onto (or is it into) my Windows 11 laptop.
Obviously, FS2004 works perfectly within Windows 11, subject to a few caveats (of course!)
It is all over the 'net (Google it) how to install it.
Just Google 'FS2004 Windows 1116bit'
Then there is a 4GB patch to download & Run.
This utility allows older 32bit applications to use up to 4GB instead of 2GB of virtual memory on 64bit operating systems.
Without this utility, FS2004 will use a total of 4GB memory, SHARED with the memory of the GPU.
With it, FS2004 uses 4GB & the GPU's memory is NOT combined.

Remember that FS2004, being a 32bit application will only use a MAXIMUM of 4GB of your total memory, irrespective of how much memory you have in your PC
I've tried FSX many times & always dumped it.

However.. I'm also running P3Dv4.5 as it is the last version that is FSX compatible. Especially for the range of Fire Fighting aircraft available for it.
And to make simming more interesting, I'm running my 3 unique versions of FS2004 & my P3D off portable drives that are permanently plugged in. - No lags at all!!

Sorry for the confusion, I forgot this is the FS2000/2004 forum.

At the time, I had both FS9 and FSX (Steam) installed on my computer and enjoyed both! However, the fiasco with Steam left such a bitter taste in my mouth that I switched over to X-Plane 11. From a graphics (sightseeing) perspective, X-Plane 11 out of the box was much better and more stable than FSX running in DX-10 Preview mode, even with all the memory mods that I threw at FSX. In some respects, X-Plane 11 (out of the box) was like FSX on steroids, and in other respects, not so much. The learning curve kept me so busy that I never did fire up FS9 again. My bad.

Tommy