DC Designs Northrop P-61C Black Widow RELEASED

[Seahawk72s]

Pssssst.. she wore red :: Great paint job thank hyou..



I can only theorize that this was the inspiration for the plane and the nose art..

Realizing that Lady in the Dark was a P-61B, I am going with a blue figurine.
There are quite a few professional models out there with this paint scheme.
I was reading an account last night be a modeler who was lucky enough to see an actual color
film of LITD. He said by the end of the film all he could say was, its blue, she's blue....lol

 

[warchild]

Yes I understand Pam, but it seems that reducing the MoI is the only way I know to make the prop slow down more quickly, having said that maybe the 0.689 efficiency scalar might have an effect corelated with values in table 509? - Something else to try. I might also light up my old 'puter & try it in FSXA which I assume Falcon is using as opposed to me using SP2.

Seems rudder authority needs a bit of tweaking with others not able to cope with a crosswind.

Interesting...... ain't it - & not only with Rowan & Martin!
Regards
Keith

YAYYY.. Its posting quotes..

Just remember it's not going to have a lot of rudder. thats because most of the mass is carried by the booms which are something like 24 feet apart or so ( blatant guess ). it was designed that way specifically to stabilize its yaw, because its much harder to tip a block than it is a stick. Still, your correct. There is far too little rudder authority at the moment ( i cant even do a half arsed hammerhead ). Let me know how it goes. After my outburst towards Seahawk, I'm gonna take a day or so to chill and get my perspective back..

 

[warchild]

Realizing that Lady in the Dark was a P-61B, I am going with a blue figurine.
There are quite a few professional models out there with this paint scheme.
I was reading an account last night be a modeler who was lucky enough to see an actual color
film of LITD. He said by the end of the film all he could say was, its blue, she's blue....lol

Yeahh, It looks good in blue. It's always been a debate whether she wore red or blue and its been a debate in circles we cant even think of belonging too.. Personally, I still believe Ginger Rogers was the original Lady in the Dark, and she wore red, but really, whether it was red or blue is down to a matter of personal taste now as everyone involved is passed, and they never said either; taking a rather mischievous bit of humor over it..

 

[warchild]

Realizing that Lady in the Dark was a P-61B, I am going with a blue figurine.
There are quite a few professional models out there with this paint scheme.
I was reading an account last night be a modeler who was lucky enough to see an actual color
film of LITD. He said by the end of the film all he could say was, its blue, she's blue....lol

Hey.. I found something for you and your grandchildren.. Keep it safe..

It's Blue. She's Blue

 

[warchild]

I guess at this point a full setup description is in order:

I have been using FSX/Accel for all but one flight (I also have P3D_V4.2 but rarely fly it).
I have a CH Pro Throttle with one control so I do not have the ability to regulate individual engine settings (dual throttles)
I have a fairly new Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick with twist grip (the normal throttle tab on that is mapped to Prop Axis)

Both controllers were calibrated a few days ago after I woke one morning to discover that both controllers had lost all the mapping and had been reset to default (a PITA).

I always fly with realism settings "middle of the road". Crash detection off, Engine damage off, Aircraft stress off, automixture on, gyro drift off, unlimited fuel off and so on and so forth. However for this airplane I turned all damage and stress settings on and did my level best to fly with the intent of making it home alive.

I also have a weather program (FSRealWX_Pro) which I rarely use and several REX Programs. . .also rarely used. So in fact, whenever I fly on a normal basis I have "0" wind so that is a non-factor related to the inability to control the airplane during taxi (above 15kts) or take off roll.

I do have now and actually have from the start, had a sound running in the VC with engines off, reminiscent of an old car I had as a kid that wouldn't shut off after I had removed the key. . .something we referred to as "dieseling". It's not heard from the exterior. . .only in the VC.

I think that about covers everything.

The sound in the VC is the fuel pump. If you turn on the booster pumps, the sound changes but never actually goes away until the engines are started. its kind of like the pumps ran dry and are sucking air.

I can sympathize with a complete controller reconfig, and these days, with the X-65 iii climb in a plane and its basically re-calibrate the joystick..
Let me drop down to a single throttle and see what happens. that kinda tweaked a bone when you mentioned that so i want to investigate a bit more..

 

[falcon409]

Pam, I just flew from Bill Womack's Nantucket (beautiful job) in P3D_V4.2. . .results:

Taxied straight as an arrow up to 32kts, basically hands off. Turns were normal nosewheel types up to 20kts, thereafter a bit of braking put her into a smooth turn when needed. Takeoff roll was uneventful, only a very slight rudder correction for normal torque and up and away she went. Perfect in P3D_V4.2!!

This was with the updated files you posted this morning. What does that tell you. . .if anything?

 

[simtech]

Pam, Dean and others..I'm using FSX-A flying with the original d/l with realism set at about 80% P-factor, General, etc. Only changes have been the backslash comments. I have experienced no "giggly props", jumping jacks, or herding towards the south pasture. Once lined up on the taxiway, I can taxi 40 kts, 45"MP and the aircraft will track with no rudder input. The rudimentary autopilot using FSX built in, will hold hdg, and altitude as expected. Nothing fancy. As far as FSX-A goes, I have no performance issues with this iteration. Pam explained these gremlins in posts 60 and 109. As with what Ed experienced about the 25-30 cyclic hum (sound) with power, battery and all other switches off, yes, I, too, hear that consistently from the VC. Otherwise, a fine airplane I'm looking forward to spending many hours with. I hope that the issues other versions of this sim experience can be rectified as I trust this beast will be a classic.

 

[warchild]

Pam, I just flew from Bill Womack's Nantucket (beautiful job) in P3D_V4.2. . .results:

Taxied straight as an arrow up to 32kts, basically hands off. Turns were normal nosewheel types up to 20kts, thereafter a bit of braking put her into a smooth turn when needed. Takeoff roll was uneventful, only a very slight rudder correction for normal torque and up and away she went. Perfect in P3D_V4.2!!

This was with the updated files you posted this morning. What does that tell you. . .if anything?

It perfectly reflects my own initial experience, though mine was in P3Dv4. And then when you go into fsx, that very same fde turns into a monster. Just sent you a PM. Its for FSX..
My suspicion however I've been cautious about sharing because a lot of people wouldnt like it. The problem isnt with the plane directly, but rather its with the way the specific version of FSX interprets the data. ( i.e. SP2 is nearly ten years old now. Accel is nearly ten years old nowTheres problems that pop up in accel that SP2 never sees and vice versa. and then theres SE ). Now, the only thing all of these versions have in common is that they ARE ALL BASED ON ms esp, which was designed to assist efficiency experts design offices and factory floors and set up the actual workflow within the buildings.
However, I started poking around esp towards the beginning of 2009 ( about when i started to get cocky, and somewhat good ) and I discovered some non documented ( for fsx ) abilities it had and started making use of them. Some of those featuures still exist in fsx and p3d, only we no longer know if the sim is interpreting the data and executing some of those undocumented features or not. It would appear like something weird and unexplainable happened for the better, or worse..
The fact that you and I can fly it in P3D simply proves we can fly it in P3D. Meanwhile, unless the version I just sent you magically works, FSX is still broken and i havent got a single lead.. But we'll figure it out..
Pam

 

[warchild]

Pam, Dean and others..I'm using FSX-A flying with the original d/l with realism set at about 80% P-factor, General, etc. Only changes have been the backslash comments. I have experienced no "giggly props", jumping jacks, or herding towards the south pasture. Once lined up on the taxiway, I can taxi 40 kts, 45"MP and the aircraft will track with no rudder input. The rudimentary autopilot using FSX built in, will hold hdg, and altitude as expected. Nothing fancy. As far as FSX-A goes, I have no performance issues with this iteration. Pam explained these gremlins in posts 60 and 109. As with what Ed experienced about the 25-30 cyclic hum (sound) with power, battery and all other switches off, yes, I, too, hear that consistently from the VC. Otherwise, a fine airplane I'm looking forward to spending many hours with. I hope that the issues other versions of this sim experience can be rectified as I trust this beast will be a classic.

I will find a way to fix it. I promise ..

 

[falcon409]

Pam, in FSX/Accel. . .after your PM:

Seemed to initially taxi better up to and beyond 20kts, but then the pull set in again. What I did discover (as if there isn't enough weirdness already) was that after a left turn onto the rwy instead of still pulling to the left it wanted to go right. . .then at the turnoff (I decided at this point to just taxi around the airport for awhile) I turned right and it started pulling to the left. I continued that scenario around the airport rws and taxiways and in every case a hard turn in one direction caused the airplane to want to pull to the opposite.

How's that for a "What the Hell" moment? lol

NOTE: For those thinking I should recalibrate. . .it only happens in FSX and it only happens with this airplane. I can load any other. . .payware, freeware, Native FSX or portover. . .they all taxi and fly perfectly. Plus, as mentioned a few posts ago, in P3D_V4.2 it flies perfectly and I recalibrated both controllers about an hour or so ago.

 

[warchild]

Pam, in FSX/Accel. . .after your PM:

Seemed to initially taxi better up to and beyond 20kts, but then the pull set in again. What I did discover (as if there isn't enough weirdness already) was that after a left turn onto the rwy instead of still pulling to the left it wanted to go right. . .then at the turnoff (I decided at this point to just taxi around the airport for awhile) I turned right and it started pulling to the left. I continued that scenario around the airport rws and taxiways and in every case a hard turn in one direction caused the airplane to want to pull to the opposite.

How's that for a "What the Hell" moment? lol

NOTE: For those thinking I should recalibrate. . .it only happens in FSX and it only happens with this airplane. I can load any other. . .payware, freeware, Native FSX or portover. . .they all taxi and fly perfectly. Plus, as mentioned a few posts ago, in P3D_V4.2 it flies perfectly and I recalibrated both controllers about an hour or so ago.

The harder i turn left to stay on the runway, the harder it pulls right. The harder i turn right to keep it on the runway, the harder it pulls left.
If this were yesterday, I'd be calling for dean to fix the code becsause this is certsainly something in the way the yoke compiled, BUT, That fde is the one i've used since godawful early this morning, and it works perfectly and much to my amazement, on my fsx:SE. But will it work after I reboot?? Who knows??? I'm not saying the compile is off the hook yet, but the fact mines working and the same exact copy doesnt work on your machine, certainly puts a damper on the compile theory.
Yeahhh, the same exact copy, uploaded to dropbox. The only major differences here are fsx SE and FSX SP2.
Damn my memory. Damn it o hell.. Someone above just mentioned it works perfectly on accelleration. Was accel pre or post sp2??
It's not that FSX is dearly loved, even though it is, amd its not that FSX is familiar and comfortable, even though it is. It's that P3D is black, and its layout is more like a parts catalog than a friendly kiosk, and it almost insists on loading the aircraft first instead of letting you create your scenario from a blanck slate in the opening kiosk. I dont know about anyone else, but I remember when in fsx if you changed aircraft once one was loaded, the aircraft you changed too retained some of the previous aircrafts traits. Try changing from a cessna to a yf-23 and see how well it handles regardless of who created it. That was the old FSX. P3D is about as friendly as a dentist. Just open up and say ahhhh. This'll hurt a little bit.. Uh huh.. So I cant recommend you migrate to P3D, and yet, it works. FSX SE, seems to work, and its reported FSX: Acceleration works. I will keep plugging away, but it's looking a bit like its a version problem, but only a bit. I'm still lost and reaching for straws hoping to find a little wisdom here..
Pam

 

[falcon409]

Pam, for my part, as long as I can get it to the end of the runway I'm good. . .after that I can drag it into the air and then it flies like a champ!! I just updated my P3D to V4.3 and that's where I'll do most of my Blackwidow flying unless I need to test something in FSX.

 

[warchild]

Pam, for my part, as long as I can get it to the end of the runway I'm good. . .after that I can drag it into the air and then it flies like a champ!! I just updated my P3D to V4.3 and that's where I'll do most of my Blackwidow flying unless I need to test something in FSX.

Ok Ed. Sounds good. I think youll enjoy 4.3. It was a bit of a headache installing it, but it works pretty well and as I joke with Mark, it looks more like FSX than FSX.. you might want to consider envtex and envshade. they go a long way to enhancing immersion..

 

[MrZippy]

Just to re-iterate, all is well in FSX SP2. Taxi, takeoff, flying, slowing for a landing, CRASHING...dammit, if I pay attention, then landing is fine also.

 

[warchild]

Welllll, to be honest, I'm not completely happy. The near identiczal twin of this FDE for Roberts P-61B runs fine on all platforms. Ironically, it was developed on FSX: Acceleration. Theres a lot of things that have popped up the last couple days that I dont understand, or do not have the capacity to understand any longer. Falcon409's issues being one of them. Why does it worrk on my machine and not his?? Why would the P-61B's fde work on any machine and the P-61C's wont. Do I need to go back to using FSX for development and port it up to P3D?? I made something I was incredibly proud of. The very best FDE I had ever made, and in less that a day i've been made to feel like a complete failure who produces nothing but manure. I feel that I failed everyone, but especially, myself. Its a hard pill to swallow..

 

[warchild]

Pam, for my part, as long as I can get it to the end of the runway I'm good. . .after that I can drag it into the air and then it flies like a champ!! I just updated my P3D to V4.3 and that's where I'll do most of my Blackwidow flying unless I need to test something in FSX.

Yeah but, you shouldnt have to use something you dont like.. That saddens me. it means you may not fly the plane as often nor enjoy it as much. zNaturally, I want everyone to enjoy my plane, all the time ::lol::.. Well, Deans Plane.. I still want to solve this, but without access to a lab with all versions available, testing is a one sided deal. Even amongst the wonderful people here who have reported their findings, there are anomolies. zit works on Accell, and one SP2, it fails on another Sp2. Why??

 

[warchild]

Pam, Dean and others..I'm using FSX-A flying with the original d/l with realism set at about 80% P-factor, General, etc. Only changes have been the backslash comments. I have experienced no "giggly props", jumping jacks, or herding towards the south pasture. Once lined up on the taxiway, I can taxi 40 kts, 45"MP and the aircraft will track with no rudder input. The rudimentary autopilot using FSX built in, will hold hdg, and altitude as expected. Nothing fancy. As far as FSX-A goes, I have no performance issues with this iteration. Pam explained these gremlins in posts 60 and 109. As with what Ed experienced about the 25-30 cyclic hum (sound) with power, battery and all other switches off, yes, I, too, hear that consistently from the VC. Otherwise, a fine airplane I'm looking forward to spending many hours with. I hope that the issues other versions of this sim experience can be rectified as I trust this beast will be a classic.

I wonder, I fly with realism set to 100% on all controls. Falcon flies at 50%. I'm willing to bet theres some correlation between reality settings and degrees of pull, but there just isnt enough evidence too support it. Also, Falcon isnt the only one to see the reversed rudder problem. I've seen it too.. You steer left it goes right, Steer right it goes left, just like the issues the 737s had a long time ago. I just dont know..

 

[PhantomTweak]

I'm willing to bet there's some correlation between reality settings and degrees of pull

Actually, there is, and evidence to support it. Many of the formulae utilized in the .air file work differently with the Realism sliders below 100% than when the sliders ARE up to 100%. 99% is the same as 1% to these formulae. But it does matter.
This information is taken from Yves Guillaume's great PDF, Flight Dynamics in MSFS V1.0. A truly amazing work for those who are willing to put some mental effort into adjusting .air file settings. It's for FS9 and FSX, not P3D though, so be aware.
If you wish to use it to it's full capabilities, be ready to do some pretty advanced math, although it's not up to calculus. Algebra and trig, with maybe a little geometry thrown in.
Even without actually doing the math for yourself, the explanations Yves gives are very enlightening.
It's available on the FSDeveloper form, IIRC, and if not, it's easy enough to find on Google. Just punch in Yves name and MSFS, or something like, and it's easy to find. If you want to adjust .air file settings, I strongly suggest getting, and using it. Couple it with Airfile Manager, and you have a superb .air file adjustment setup.
I wish more devs use it. NOT pointing any fingers, it would just make things a lot easier, and more accurate, as well as saving a lot of experimentation for them.

Hope this is of a little help...
Pat☺

 

[Dev One]

My FSX SP2 is set for full realism on all sliders, crash detection Off, auto rudder Off, unlimited fuel, no g effects. As far as I know SP2 came before Accel, I use SP2 because my models will not accept wingfold from my FS9 portovers!
I have not experienced reversal of rudder whilst taxying & the nosewheel seems to point in the right direction! Find fast taxying twitchy to say the least.
Having rudder authority problems in the approach if off line of the runway, it just will not change track although heading changes, stability setting too high?
Will try later today with my FSXA puter & report back.
Keith

 

[falcon409]

I had a long post going about 10 minutes ago and then my computer decided to lock up and I lost it all. . .not going there again so I'll make this short. There are some statements I made earlier that have been misinterpreted and those need to be made clear.

1) For the sake of testing the Black Widow. . .I have had all realism sliders to full and all crash detection and similar damage boxes checked (true for both Sims). I made that statement in a previous post.
2) To be clear, when I described taxiing around my airport and noticed that a hard left turn resulted in the aircraft pulling to right after I had made the turn. . .there is no "rudder deflection" involved. I turn left and after straightening out, the plane wants to pull right. . .the rudder and nosewheel remain in a neutral position. . .conversely if I turn right and then head straight down a taxiway the airplane will pull to the left.