DDS Help

[FOO FIGHTER]

Looking for advice on dds formatting. Notice the color bleed around the nose number in the screenshot below (DXT1 no alpha). Is there any way to prevent that without having to generate a 8-12 MB texture sheet? I have saved the texture in 565 RGB 16bit unsigned (8MB size) with excellent results, but I seem to recall that was a no-no for some reason. Would it be safe to do that without any unwanted side effects if forced to go that way?

 

[MajorMagee]

What value do you have set your ConfigOverrides.xml for max texturelimits?

In cfs3config.exe it will only let you select up to 1024, but if you text edit the xml you can increase it to 2048, or even 4096.

<TextureLimits>
<aircraftmodels Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>

This compliments the texture budget values that you can set to higher values from within cfs3config.exe

<CompositeAircraftTextureBudget val="10240"/>
<CompositeAircraftTextureMaxDim val="4096"/>

I had also noticed the color bleed problem, and is was driving me crazy until I discovered this fix. I found it particularly noticeable on the Red Stars with White Borders. No matter how big, or detailed I made the texture dds it was still being down-sampled before it was applied to the model in game. It's that down-sampling that was causing the misplaced colors (similar to Mip Mapping logic). Once I hand edited the texture limit everything smoothed out even without resorting to a giant dds file.

 

[FOO FIGHTER]

Yep, have everything set to 4096. I also noticed that after saving in bmp and then saving in dds with DXTBmp the bleeding is still generated. So, I'm assuming the problem is caused at the time of texture (2048) creation. I'm not doing anything different than before. Saving in DXT1 (no alpha) with the Nvidia Photoshop plug-in.

<Config>
<FileVersion val="60"/>
<Adapter val="0"/>
<Device val="0"/>
<Mode val="27"/>
<MultisampleType val="D3DMULTISAMPLE_NONE"/>
<VendorId val="4318"/>
<DeviceId val="4992"/>
<VersionNumberLowPart val="858487"/>
<VersionNumberHighPart val="655378"/>
<TextureLimits>
<aircraftmodels Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<compositeterrain Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<compositeterrainsource Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<effects Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<hud Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<nonaircraftmodels Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<precompiledterrain Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<shadows Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<ui Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<uncategorized Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
</TextureLimits>
<ConfigOverrides>
<DisableWarningBoxes val="n"/>
<DisableSound val="n"/>
<DisableIntroMovie val="y"/>
<DisableMovieUI val="n"/>
<DisableUIAnimations val="n"/>
<SafeMode val="n"/>
<NoDXT1 val="n"/>
<NoDXT3 val="n"/>
<NoDXT5 val="n"/>
<DisableIndexBuffers val="n"/>
<DisableVertexBuffers val="n"/>
<Disable1600x1200 val="n"/>
<Disable1280x1024 val="n"/>
<Disable1024x768 val="n"/>
<DualPassRender val="n"/>
<HighResolutionZBuffer val="n"/>
<TerrainDetailTexture val="y"/>
<DisableWindowed val="n"/>
<DisableValidateDevice val="y"/>
<DisableWriteOnlyVB val="n"/>
<DisableWriteOnlyIB val="n"/>
<DisableTriangleStrips val="n"/>
<UnsupportedHardware val="n"/>
<UnsupportedDriver val="n"/>
<DisableCompositeTerrainTextureMips val="n"/>
<DisableCompositeTerrainTextures val="n"/>
<DisableCompositeGroundPlaneTextures val="n"/>
<DisableCompositeAircraftTextures val="n"/>
<DisableScenery val="n"/>
<DisableEnvironmentMapping val="n"/>
<DisableShadows val="n"/>
<DisableWhiteOut val="n"/>
<DisableTerrainLighting val="n"/>
<DisableSceneryLighting val="n"/>
<DisableSun val="n"/>
<DisableStars val="n"/>
<DisableRenderText val="n"/>
<DisableLabels val="n"/>
<DisableTacticalDisplay val="n"/>
<DisableTargetCone val="n"/>
<DisableHUD val="n"/>
<DisableChat val="n"/>
<DisableAdvisor val="n"/>
<DisableSimWarnings val="n"/>
<DisableTimeCompress val="n"/>
<DisableWeather val="n"/>
<DisableClouds val="n"/>
<DisableBlendToOffscreen val="n"/>
<DisableClear val="n"/>
<DisableTerrainRender val="n"/>
<DisableTerrainUpdate val="n"/>
<DisableSceneDBRender val="n"/>
<DisableWaterRender val="n"/>
<DisableWaterShorelineRender val="n"/>
<DisableWaterReflectionRender val="n"/>
<DisableWaterAnimationRender val="n"/>
<DisableTerrainTextureRingBlend val="n"/>
<DisableFog val="n"/>
<DisableRain val="n"/>
<DisableTexturedAlphaMaterial val="n"/>
<DisableShellCasings val="n"/>
<DisableTerrainDiffuseLighting val="n"/>
<DisableTerrainDecalRender val="n"/>
<DisableVCFog val="n"/>
<DisableInCloudEffect val="n"/>
<DisablePropDiscs val="n"/>
<CompositeAircraftTextureBudget val="10240"/>
<CompositeAircraftTextureMaxDim val="4096"/>
<CompositeAircraftTexturePool val="D3DPOOL_DEFAULT"/>
<CompositeAircraftTextureUsage val="D3DPOOL_RENDERTARGET"/>
<CompositeTerrainTextureBudget val="Five"/>
<VertexBufferPool val="D3DPOOL_DEFAULT"/>
<IndexBufferPool val="D3DPOOL_DEFAULT"/>
<PreCompiledTerrainTextureBudget val="four"/>
<UserShadowTextureBudget val="1"/>
<AIShadowTextureBudget val="10"/>
<ObjectShadowTextureBudget val="250"/>
<UserShadowSize val="512"/>
<AIShadowSize val="256"/>
<ObjectShadowSize val="256"/>
<MaxParticles val="5000"/>
<ZBiasBitsResolution val="15"/>
<ZBiasTerrainDecal val="0"/>
<ZBiasWaterPolyNear val="1"/>
<ZBiasWaterPolyFar val="0"/>
<ZBiasWaterLineNear val="1"/>
<ZBiasWaterLineFar val="0"/>
<ZBiasFlatEffects val="25"/>
<ZBiasShadow val="0"/>
<ZBiasTerrainAlphaNear val="0"/>
<ZBiasTerrainAlphaFar val="0"/>
<ZBiasObject val="0"/>
<ZBiasObjectFar val="0"/>
<ZBiasEffects val="1"/>
<ZBiasClouds val="1"/>
<TerrainVertexBufferCapacity val="16384"/>
<TerrainIndexBufferCapacity val="32768"/>
<VertexCacheSize val="15"/>
<BackClipDist val="128748"/>
<InteriorWaterLoadingFactor val="0.800000011920929"/>
<WaterDetailTextureSize val="5"/>
<WaterElevationBias val="4"/>
<WaterElevationBiasFactor val="0.5"/>
<NearPassBackClipDist val="13200"/>
<FarPassNearClipDist val="13000"/>
<FogStartDist val="128748"/>
<CloudScale val="10"/>
<TerrainBestImageQuality val="0"/>
<MaxLandClassVariations val="0"/>
<TerrainMaxBlenderInstPerFrameNear val="256"/>
<TerrainMaxBlenderInstPerFrameFar val="128"/>
<SceneryTriangleBudget val="five"/>
<TerrainTriangleBudget val="five"/>
<MaxModelLOD val="100"/>
<FullscreenSwapEffect val="D3DSWAPEFFECT_DISCARD"/>
<CompositeTerrainTexturePool val="D3DPOOL_DEFAULT"/>
<CompositeTerrainTextureUsage val="0"/>
<TextMaxTextures val="0"/>
<OverallGraphicDetail val="5"/>
<AircraftDetail val="5"/>
<SceneryDetail val="5"/>
<TerrainDetail val="5"/>
<EffectsQuality val="5"/>
<CloudsQuality val="5"/>
</ConfigOverrides>
</Config>

 

[MajorMagee]

I'm surprised that didn't take care of the problem as it fixed the red bleed through the white border on the large soviet stars for me. I assume that there is no evidence of this in the actual dds file when you view it enlarged to 400%?

I know I have to be careful when I resize a texture in Photoshop that it resamples better in small increments (10%) better than all in one big change (200%). Enlarging a 1024 texture to 2048 is done in 8 steps using Bicubic Smoother. Even doing that I can sometimes see a stray pixel that is colored strangely. You also need to be careful with smoothing out stair-step edges in Photoshop as that can create color artifacts in high contrast areas depending on the method you're using.

 

[FOO FIGHTER]

Originial is 2048 in Photoshop, no upsizing from 1024. Everything is fine until I save the texture as a DXT1 dds, even from bmp into DXT1 dds.

I know an 8MB texture is sort of a turn off, but with Ankor's mod it is looking like a necessity, at least to me. I want as much detail as I can see or all of the other resolution/shading improvments are pointless, IMO.

 

[MajorMagee]

Okay, in looking at your latest high and low res dds files I can see what's happening. It is an artifact of the DXT compression method.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=DXT_compression_explained

Where you have a high contrast diagonal edge like the yellow and red number on a green background too much color information is being lost and you end up with a 4 x 4 pixel patch that is not colored correctly. You probably didn't notice it before because the color differences were not so big.

 

[FOO FIGHTER]

I noticed the edges of roundels on some other models had minor distortion. I attributed this to resizing issues but when I started the high contrast skins for the Yak it became more apparent. So, the color loss during compression would seem to be unavoidable below a 565 16 bit texture then?

 

[MajorMagee]

Yes, if you allow compression you get these blocky color distortions when it breaks it up into 4 x 4 pixel groups.

If you use one of the RGB modes then the pixels do not get compressed, but using 5.6.5 will reduce the number of colors used to 64K so it can result in color banding.

Only the 8.8.8 modes will keep all of the information in the original file, but a 2048 dds jumps to 12MB.

I've found that DXT1 at 4096 will make a DDS file the same size as one that is 2048 saved with 5.6.5. They end up looking similar with different specific defects when you look too close at the details.

 

[FOO FIGHTER]

Hmmm, interesting. Saving 4096 in DXT1 reduces it a great deal. It is still there but you have to be looking for it. I have made 4096 skins for FSX but 4096 for CFS3? Is the CFS3 engine capable of showing that much detail?

I have not yet noticed any color issues with 565 RGB 16bpp but I'm leaning towards using it from now on. Other than the color banding is there any other reason why 565 should not be used with CFS3.

 

[MajorMagee]

I just discovered another curiosity. I was having a resolution problem with the Yak Feather. No matter how big and smooth I made the DDS it was being persistently low rez in game. On a whim I renamed the mos file so it would not be used, and viola, the texture was smooth as silk. I wonder what is in the mos file that forces the texture to be displayed at a lower resolution?

 

[FOO FIGHTER]

Not getting that on my end. I did accidently add an s to my _t.mos (_s_t.mos) and the winter textures on all my aircraft refused to appear! Do you mind posting your configuration override xml settings?

 

[MajorMagee]

The mos file is definitely limiting the texture size to 512 x 512. I don't know enough about the mos editor to change it to use the bigger textures without scaling them down.

As requested

<Config>
<FileVersion val="60"/>
<Adapter val="0"/>
<Device val="0"/>
<Mode val="37"/>
<MultisampleType val="D3DMULTISAMPLE_NONE"/>
<VendorId val="4318"/>
<DeviceId val="5056"/>
<VersionNumberLowPart val="858168"/>
<VersionNumberHighPart val="655378"/>
<TextureLimits>
<aircraftmodels Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<compositeterrain Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<compositeterrainsource Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<effects Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<hud Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<nonaircraftmodels Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<precompiledterrain Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<shadows Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<ui Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
<uncategorized Scale="0" MaxDim="4096"/>
</TextureLimits>
<ConfigOverrides>
<DisableWarningBoxes val="n"/>
<DisableSound val="n"/>
<DisableIntroMovie val="y"/>
<DisableMovieUI val="n"/>
<DisableUIAnimations val="n"/>
<SafeMode val="n"/>
<NoDXT1 val="n"/>
<NoDXT3 val="n"/>
<NoDXT5 val="n"/>
<DisableIndexBuffers val="n"/>
<DisableVertexBuffers val="n"/>
<Disable1600x1200 val="n"/>
<Disable1280x1024 val="n"/>
<Disable1024x768 val="n"/>
<DualPassRender val="n"/>
<HighResolutionZBuffer val="y"/>
<TerrainDetailTexture val="y"/>
<DisableWindowed val="n"/>
<DisableValidateDevice val="y"/>
<DisableWriteOnlyVB val="n"/>
<DisableWriteOnlyIB val="n"/>
<DisableTriangleStrips val="n"/>
<UnsupportedHardware val="n"/>
<UnsupportedDriver val="n"/>
<DisableCompositeTerrainTextureMips val="n"/>
<DisableCompositeTerrainTextures val="n"/>
<DisableCompositeGroundPlaneTextures val="n"/>
<DisableCompositeAircraftTextures val="n"/>
<DisableScenery val="n"/>
<DisableEnvironmentMapping val="n"/>
<DisableShadows val="n"/>
<DisableWhiteOut val="n"/>
<DisableTerrainLighting val="n"/>
<DisableSceneryLighting val="n"/>
<DisableSun val="n"/>
<DisableStars val="n"/>
<DisableRenderText val="n"/>
<DisableLabels val="n"/>
<DisableTacticalDisplay val="n"/>
<DisableTargetCone val="n"/>
<DisableHUD val="n"/>
<DisableChat val="n"/>
<DisableAdvisor val="n"/>
<DisableSimWarnings val="n"/>
<DisableTimeCompress val="n"/>
<DisableWeather val="n"/>
<DisableClouds val="n"/>
<DisableBlendToOffscreen val="n"/>
<DisableClear val="n"/>
<DisableTerrainRender val="n"/>
<DisableTerrainUpdate val="n"/>
<DisableSceneDBRender val="n"/>
<DisableWaterRender val="n"/>
<DisableWaterShorelineRender val="n"/>
<DisableWaterReflectionRender val="n"/>
<DisableWaterAnimationRender val="n"/>
<DisableTerrainTextureRingBlend val="n"/>
<DisableFog val="n"/>
<DisableRain val="n"/>
<DisableTexturedAlphaMaterial val="n"/>
<DisableShellCasings val="n"/>
<DisableTerrainDiffuseLighting val="n"/>
<DisableTerrainDecalRender val="n"/>
<DisableVCFog val="n"/>
<DisableInCloudEffect val="n"/>
<DisablePropDiscs val="n"/>
<CompositeAircraftTextureBudget val="10240"/>
<CompositeAircraftTextureMaxDim val="4096"/>
<CompositeAircraftTexturePool val="D3DPOOL_DEFAULT"/>
<CompositeAircraftTextureUsage val="0"/>
<CompositeTerrainTextureBudget val="five"/>
<VertexBufferPool val="D3DPOOL_DEFAULT"/>
<IndexBufferPool val="D3DPOOL_DEFAULT"/>
<PreCompiledTerrainTextureBudget val="four"/>
<UserShadowTextureBudget val="1"/>
<AIShadowTextureBudget val="30"/>
<ObjectShadowTextureBudget val="500"/>
<UserShadowSize val="512"/>
<AIShadowSize val="256"/>
<ObjectShadowSize val="256"/>
<MaxParticles val="2000000"/>
<ZBiasBitsResolution val="15"/>
<ZBiasTerrainDecal val="0"/>
<ZBiasWaterPolyNear val="1"/>
<ZBiasWaterPolyFar val="0"/>
<ZBiasWaterLineNear val="1"/>
<ZBiasWaterLineFar val="0"/>
<ZBiasFlatEffects val="25"/>
<ZBiasShadow val="0"/>
<ZBiasTerrainAlphaNear val="0"/>
<ZBiasTerrainAlphaFar val="0"/>
<ZBiasObject val="0"/>
<ZBiasObjectFar val="0"/>
<ZBiasEffects val="1"/>
<ZBiasClouds val="1"/>
<TerrainVertexBufferCapacity val="16384"/>
<TerrainIndexBufferCapacity val="32768"/>
<VertexCacheSize val="15"/>
<BackClipDist val="128748"/>
<InteriorWaterLoadingFactor val="1"/>
<WaterDetailTextureSize val="5"/>
<WaterElevationBias val="4"/>
<WaterElevationBiasFactor val="0.5"/>
<NearPassBackClipDist val="13200"/>
<FarPassNearClipDist val="13000"/>
<FogStartDist val="128748"/>
<CloudScale val="10"/>
<TerrainBestImageQuality val="0"/>
<MaxLandClassVariations val="0"/>
<TerrainMaxBlenderInstPerFrameNear val="256"/>
<TerrainMaxBlenderInstPerFrameFar val="128"/>
<SceneryTriangleBudget val="five"/>
<TerrainTriangleBudget val="five"/>
<MaxModelLOD val="100"/>
<FullscreenSwapEffect val="D3DSWAPEFFECT_DISCARD"/>
<CompositeTerrainTexturePool val="D3DPOOL_DEFAULT"/>
<CompositeTerrainTextureUsage val="0"/>
<TextMaxTextures val="0"/>
<OverallGraphicDetail val="5"/>
<AircraftDetail val="5"/>
<SceneryDetail val="5"/>
<TerrainDetail val="5"/>
<EffectsQuality val="5"/>
<CloudsQuality val="5"/>
</ConfigOverrides>
</Config>

 

[AnKor]

There is an odd issue with composite texture resolution in cfs3.
I researched it some time ago as it was the reason why WOFF didn't allow to use high res skins with bullet damage enabled. And WOFF 3 now allows it.

The issue is caused by this:
<CompositeAircraftTextureUsage val="0"/>

With such setting (which is default by the way) composite textures cannot be larger than... the screen resolution. So unless you use 4K display you won't get 2048 textures, they will be downscaled to 1024 at 1080p.

What you need is
<CompositeAircraftTextureUsage val="D3DUSAGE_RENDERTARGET"/>

Texture pool should stay as D3DPOOL_DEFAULT (otherwise render target mode won't work).

However, this seem to have an odd side effect of upscaling lower-res textures to the size you used for CompositeAircraftTextureMaxDim. And it works in an odd way: the upscaled textures aren't smoothed. This isn't a problem for WOFF which uses consistent texture size, but for CFS3 you might get odd visuals.

 

[ndicki]

Old, old piece of research by Luca, at the GC Garage Corner - which is very useful. How he managed to work all this out back in prehistoric times I do not know, but it's worth downloading the page and keeping it safely. I use these settings with 2048 skins and have absolutely no trouble at all, even with the latest shaders - for which HUGE THANKS! to Ankor. It's beautiful...

http://www.mrjmaint.com/RegsHanger/...round Crew Design CFS3 2048x2048 settings.php

 

[FOO FIGHTER]

Thanks Major/ndicki!

"What you need is
<CompositeAircraftTextureUsage val="D3DUSAGE_RENDERTARGET"/>"

That alone made a significant improvement on my aircraft textures! Thank you once again Ankor! You continue to amaze!

As the Major has shown, the color blending is created at the time of dds creation. My path is clear, its 565 all the way from now on.

 

[MajorMagee]

Thanks for the link to the config settings. Evidently a 0 setting means anything goes for texture size.

I'm now able to leave the mos files active without messing up the texture resolution.

 

[MajorMagee]

I needed this info again so

 

[Geezer]

I needed this info again so

I've been following a number of threads here as I slowly build my CFS3 install. This will be VERY useful info when I start exporting 3dsMax models to Gmax, and then to CFS3. I noticed several CFS3 models I DL-ed used multiple 1024 maps to skin the aircraft, perhaps because the modeler did not know about info above?

That brings up another interesting question. In some sims, multiple art files of middling size don't impact frame rate performance as much as one BIG art file. Has anyone fooled around with this in CFS3?

The reason I ask is that I am contemplating some 1937 China aircraft and ground objects for CFS3, and I am wondering if an existing game map, such as the China region of PTO, can be upgraded.

 

[Frosty]

I've been following a number of threads here as I slowly build my CFS3 install. This will be VERY useful info when I start exporting 3dsMax models to Gmax, and then to CFS3. I noticed several CFS3 models I DL-ed used multiple 1024 maps to skin the aircraft, perhaps because the modeler did not know about info above?

That brings up another interesting question. In some sims, multiple art files of middling size don't impact frame rate performance as much as one BIG art file. Has anyone fooled around with this in CFS3?

The reason I ask is that I am contemplating some 1937 China aircraft and ground objects for CFS3, and I am wondering if an existing game map, such as the China region of PTO, can be upgraded.

Apart from the fact that I don't really know the answer to your questions, I just want to say " Wow, I want that!!"


But IIRC, if one wants to make use of .mos file w. bulletholes etc. appearing on an aircraft's exterior, the external textures should be on one texture sheet. The cockpits etc. can be on other/multiple sheets. I don't know if there is a max. size for those texture sheets but since CFS3 is quite old, 2048x2048 probably was considered pretty big back in the days. Doesn't FSX have 4K sheets for the newest, most detailed AC? But then again, you should take into account that FSX is a civvie sim and there's no need for the program to track the multitude of aircraft, bullet and weapons trajectories, and effects simultanously that a combat sim is required to do. I can imagine that doing so in real-time for many AC with 4K textures might be too much for some PCs.

When I started doing some limited modelling for airfields, I started out with separate textures for each model. But resolutions varied, some models were really small and I wanted to make more efficient use of the texture sheets, so at some point I combined several small textures on one big texture sheet to keep things less cluttered. I can't recall the exact reasoning although it was connected to your second remark. I don't think it affected performance negatively though. I am not that computer-savvy but your question raises these points again:
- What uses more memory and processing speed; the loading of a series of smaller textures or one big texture?
- If a number of small objects take their individual texture from one big sheet, say 2048x2048, are they treated as individually having a 2048x2048 texture, even though they only use a small portion of it? How would this affect the first point (processor/memory load)? There are probably some tech guys around who know the answer to these subjects.

- I think that in PTO's documents it is stated that you're free to play around with it but I am not sure what you want to do to the China theatre. You can of course replace the landclass textures with better, more detailed ones but I think it is pretty difficult to alter the landscape itself: It requires a new mesh and/or landclass files. See the recent thread on creating landclasses etc: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?101359-TIFFs-files-for-CFS3-landclasses

Would love to see your models in CFS3!

 

[Geezer]

Would love to see your models in CFS3!

Thanks - it'll happen eventually. Being brand new to CFS3, I have a lot to learn and I'm going slow. I spent several years modding First Eagles, but kept hitting the game engine's limitations so I thought I'd look into CFS3 which is more complex to mod, but has more potential.

A couple of my First Eagles aircraft: