De Havilland DH 103 Sea Hornet NF 21 FSX is Out

[peter12213]

Quite a nice model, but the FDE is way off, anybody else noticed if you point the nose up 90 degrees with only the 2 wing tanks full the thing will hover! I know it was a powerful aircraft but thats just crazy lol, really nice addition to fsx though! I just can't wait for his Attacker to be released!

 

[deathfromafar]

Quite a nice model, but the FDE is way off, anybody else noticed if you point the nose up 90 degrees with only the 2 wing tanks full the thing will hover! I know it was a powerful aircraft but thats just crazy lol, really nice addition to fsx though! I just can't wait for his Attacker to be released!

I wouldn't say it's too unrealistic. An aircraft of that weight with twin Merlin's and 4 bladed props with that much area on them could in all probability be hung on it's props in the vertical. I remember my demo flight back in the 90's in an SU-29 and the instructor hovering & torque rolling the plane staying perfectly vertical. Shocked the hell out of me! I've seen a Grumman F7F Tigercat do things in the vertical I had previously thought impossible. But, if you want to know the original Sea Hornet's Test Pilot's feelings:

Just after VE Day the first semi-navalised Sea Hornet PX 212 arrived at the RAE, Farnborough. Eric Brown initiated "work-up-to deck landing" trials. 37 years later, he was still impressed:

"...The next two months of handling and deck landing assessment trials were to be an absolute joy; from the outset the Sea Hornet was a winner!"
"The view from the cockpit, positioned right forward in the nose beneath a one-piece aft-sliding canopy was truly magnificent. The Sea Hornet was easy to taxi, with powerful brakes... the takeoff using 25 lb (2,053 mm Hg, 51" Hg) boost and flaps at one-third extension was remarkable! The 2,070 hp (1,540 kW) Merlin 130/131 engines fitted to the prototypes were to be derated to 18 lb (1,691 Hg, 37" Hg) boost and 2,030 hp (1,510 kW) as Merlin 133/134s in production Sea Hornets, but takeoff performance was to remain fantastic. Climb with 18 lb boost exceeded 4,000 ft/min (20.32 m/sec)"...

"In level flight the Sea Hornet's stability about all axes was just satisfactory, characteristic, of course, of a good day interceptor fighter. Its stalling characteristics were innocuous, with a fair amount of elevator buffeting and aileron twitching preceding the actual stall"...
"For aerobatics the Sea Hornet was absolute bliss. The excess of power was such that manoeuvres in the vertical plane can only be described as rocket like. Even with one propeller feathered the Hornet could loop with the best single-engine fighter, and its aerodynamic cleanliness was such that I delighted in its demonstration by diving with both engines at full bore and feathering both propellers before pulling up into a loop!

 

[peter12213]

That's very interesting actually mate thanks for the explanation!

 

[RyDraiggoch]

And we thought that the rate of climb was a little far fetched......the power to weight ratio of the Hornet was indeed phenomenal......Much like its older brother...I remember being told by a
BAC1-11 Captain for Dan Air many years ago about flying Mosquito's, and that one of the party tricks of the squadron was to take off with a fully loaded Mossie and with the gear and flaps still down feather one engine and roll the aircraft around the dead engine.....not many aircraft you could do that and live to tell the tale. Oh yes, the gent (now long gone) was a Mosquito pilot for 487 Squadron RNZAF so I never doubted his estimation of the DH Mosquito. As part of the Beta team I spent quite a bit of times doing aerobatics in various conditions, but , never managed to do what Peter described , I did however manage a series of rather impressive vertical maneuvers usually ending in a very marked stall turn in which ever direction my foot was heaviest. My suggestion is , if you find the FDE "unrealistic" then you bin the thing.


Cheers

Leif

 

[mikezola]

Wow! What a ride! I had forgotten how beautiful the Hornet is! The only problem I had occurred after I got curious and enabled the engine damage- sure enough, I was barely off the runway and I started losing power, with engine fires soon after. I ended the flight and went to fly it again and it seemed the entire front of the plane was engulfed in a cloud of smoke- from both the cockpit and external views. I switched to a different aircraft and got the same smoke cloud. Closing and reopening the sim and unchecking the Engine Damage box set everything to rights again, no worries. This one's very, very definitely a keeper- I'll be looking forward to the other variants! My compliments! Any chance we'll see the prototype paint scheme for one of the next ones? -Mike Z.

 

[Stickshaker]

Thanks for the HU,Leif... download link is http://classicbritishfiles.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=162&func=startdown&id=1863

I’ve downloaded the file several times now, but each time I try to unzip it I get the message that the file does not seem to contain a valid archive. Has anyone else had that problem?

 

[RyDraiggoch]

Stickshaker

If your experiencing difficutly downloading at www.classicbritishfiles.com - go to the support forum there - I set up a thread for Roddymod with an alternative link to the file - it will be active for a couple more days.

Usually Im sorry to say the problem is with the download speed at your end. but the alternative link will give it to you I promise


Leif

 

[RyDraiggoch]

Wow! What a ride! I had forgotten how beautiful the Hornet is! The only problem I had occurred after I got curious and enabled the engine damage- sure enough, I was barely off the runway and I started losing power, with engine fires soon after. I ended the flight and went to fly it again and it seemed the entire front of the plane was engulfed in a cloud of smoke- from both the cockpit and external views. I switched to a different aircraft and got the same smoke cloud. Closing and reopening the sim and unchecking the Engine Damage box set everything to rights again, no worries. This one's very, very definitely a keeper- I'll be looking forward to the other variants! My compliments! Any chance we'll see the prototype paint scheme for one of the next ones? -Mike Z.

Mike - after Noddy and MMann reported the same problem I did a little experiment
if you read the real F20 pilots notes (specifically the care and feeding of the Merlins)
you CAN use fly it with engine damage ON however the tendency for most people is to
overboost the engines on take off....you can do EXACTLY the same thing with Del Palmers
Dove if you your not very quick coming off the power and Boost after takeoff - the secret
lies in the correct prop settings and careful mangement of the engine and prop rpm

Cheers

Leif

 

[Dain Arns]

Mike - after Noddy and MMann reported the same problem I did a little experiment
if you read the real F20 pilots notes (specifically the care and feeding of the Merlins)
you CAN use fly it with engine damage ON however the tendency for most people is to
overboost the engines on take off....you can do EXACTLY the same thing with Del Palmers
Dove if you your not very quick coming off the power and Boost after takeoff - the secret
lies in the correct prop settings and careful mangement of the engine and prop rpm

Cheers

Leif

I'm just going to relate this information to you then.
I was attempting to take off from KFCA the other night, which sits at about 4000' ASL.
Prop RPM was reduced as recommended, and when I slowly applied throttle, I got halfway to the 'green zone' on the boost gauge, and both engines lost power entirely.
I never saw any smoke or fire, so I have to assume they dismantled themselves.
This happened repeatedly at the same airport, despite making adjustments.
I have gained enough experience over the years to manage throttle and prop settings properly.
Respectfully, I don't think it's mismanagement of the quad that's causing the problem for some of us. :salute:

 

[jojohnson9]

I’ve downloaded the file several times now, but each time I try to unzip it I get the message that the file does not seem to contain a valid archive. Has anyone else had that problem?

I had the same problem the first few times I tried to download. Each time the file was in the process of downloading I left the download site to do something else. Each download came up
empty or only partially filled. I had a successful download when I stayed at download site
until the entire file was completely downloaded.

 

[mmann]

Mike - after Noddy and MMann reported the same problem I did a little experiment
if you read the real F20 pilots notes (specifically the care and feeding of the Merlins)
you CAN use fly it with engine damage ON however the tendency for most people is to
overboost the engines on take off....you can do EXACTLY the same thing with Del Palmers
Dove if you your not very quick coming off the power and Boost after takeoff - the secret
lies in the correct prop settings and careful mangement of the engine and prop rpm

Cheers

Leif

My mistake. I thought the low end of the green zone would be safe. Most aircraft use green for the zone of safe use. I didn't realize that green should be thought of as red and that as soon as the gauge reached it the engines will trash themselves!!

Regards, Mike Mann

 

[robcarrich]

Hi all,
Sorry your having trouble with the engine settings on the Sea Hornet.
We decided to use the detonation system in FSX for a bit of realism as the real aircraft did not use full power on takeoff, less than 80% as I understand it, we copied the settings straight out of the P 51 Racer and de-tuned the power from over 3000HP!!! down to 2030HP, and it needs VERY careful handling on takeoff, but I can see it was a mistake to use these settings as it spoils the enjoyment of a casual flight if, Like me, you don't read the pilots notes!
The fix is a simple one, just go to the aircraft cfg. file and delete this line....'detonation_onset =80.0000', that's under the [piston_engine] section and that will solve the problem.
I wont include those settings in the single seat Hornet, which should be out in a few weeks.

Rob Richardson

 

[mmann]

Hi all,
Sorry your having trouble with the engine settings on the Sea Hornet.
We decided to use the detonation system in FSX for a bit of realism as the real aircraft did not use full power on takeoff, less than 80% as I understand it, we copied the settings straight out of the P 51 Racer and de-tuned the power from over 3000HP!!! down to 2030HP, and it needs VERY careful handling on takeoff, but I can see it was a mistake to use these settings as it spoils the enjoyment of a casual flight if, Like me, you don't read the pilots notes!
The fix is a simple one, just go to the aircraft cfg. file and delete this line....'detonation_onset =80.0000', that's under the [piston_engine] section and that will solve the problem.
I wont include those settings in the single seat Hornet, which should be out in a few weeks.

Rob Richardson

Could you use settings similar to the Acceleration P51. I have no problems whatsoever using that aircraft yet it still can trash the engine if you overdo it.

Regards, Mike Mann

 

[Stickshaker]

Stickshaker

If your experiencing difficutly downloading at www.classicbritishfiles.com - go to the support forum there - I set up a thread for Roddymod with an alternative link to the file - it will be active for a couple more days.

Usually Im sorry to say the problem is with the download speed at your end. but the alternative link will give it to you I promise


Leif

Thanks, Ry, it worked. Off to fly now!

 

[Dain Arns]

... but I can see it was a mistake to use these settings as it spoils the enjoyment of a casual flight if, Like me, you don't read the pilots notes!...

Just a suggestion that you might include the pilot's notes or some type of documentation, next time?
The only thing I found within the .zip file was the 'readme' which had no reference to the situation with controlling the engines.
The only reference regarding pilot's notes was made in a previous post in this thread about them being up at "The Pond", with no link provided.
I have no idea what "The Pond" is other than the reference to the Atlantic Ocean.
Some of us 'Casual Users' do in fact read the documentation quite often. :salute:

Thank you for posting the adjustment information to the aircraft.cfg file.
Please don't get me wrong, I do in fact enjoy your Sea Hornet.
It is much appreciated.

 

[RyDraiggoch]

<<Just a suggestion that you might include the pilot's notes or some type of documentation, next time?
The only thing I found within the .zip file was the 'readme' which had no reference to the situation with controlling the engines.
The only reference regarding pilot's notes was made in a previous post in this thread about them being up at "The Pond", with no link provided.
I have no idea what "The Pond" is other than the reference to the Atlantic Ocean>>.


Well that would be my bad -- I assumed that people who come to www.classicbritishfiles.com with any frequency are aware its referred to as "The Pond" because of our gracious benefactor Rob English who uses the name "The Happy Otter" --- it makes little difference either way - AMONG the jewels hidden in the library there are a fairly extensive set of real world pilots notes for many WW2 and Post War British aircarft (courtesy of one David Jerram who collects them and has made them available to you all.

 

[Cees Donker]

Reviving this old thread for some information. I've got two things that don't work on my system: I can land this baby with no trouble at all, but the taihook doesn't seem to grab the cable. Fortunately I can brake enough before I reach the end of the ship! The second thing is that the catapult SHIFT+I causes the plane to sink through the deck, tail first!

Has anyone got a solution for these problems?



Cees

 

[hairyspin]

That might be because the catapult is pulling the aircraft apart? Sea Hornets didn't use the catapult afaik, they had over 4,000 hp behind those 4-blade props...

 

[Cees Donker]

That might be because the catapult is pulling the aircraft apart? Sea Hornets didn't use the catapult afaik, they had over 4,000 hp behind those 4-blade props...

Well, the Hornet did have a catapult provision as it seems:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Hornet

Cees

 

[delta_lima]

Indeed. Large engines or not, the available takeoff-area length (roughly 300') of either the Majestic or Illustrious class carriers wouldn't, to my knowledge, be enough for an unassisted takeoff. I don't have off the top of my head the Sea Hornet's takeoff distance, but by way of very rough comparison, the Mosquito's was over 2400' in still air. Even factoring in better HP/W, and a headwind plus forward carrier speed, I highly doubt it could cut that takeoff distance to an eighth ...

As to his questions .... Cees,

1) what carrier are you trying to land on?
2) what does your aircraft.cfg have by way of launch assist and tailhook entries?

Here's mine, and they work fine on both the Flying Stations Victorious '45 and Lazarus' HMS Ocean conversion:

[TailHook]
tailhook_length= 4.000 //(feet)
tailhook_position= -26.800, 0.000, 0.000 //(feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum
cable_force_adjust= 2.0 //cable_force_adjust = 2

[launch_assistance]
launch_bar_pivot = 5.0, 0.0, -2.22 //launch_bar_pivot = 5.41,0.00,-2.0
launch_bar_lug = 9.923, 0.0, -7.52 //launch_bar_lug = 11.583333,0.00,-7.50

Hope that helps,

dl