Design Study for an Ugly Bird

Not a Good Evening

Last Night I finally put together a reasonably good shape for the Tail Cone area. The problem is that there is still some misalignment between panels and the correction is a LOT of work. At Midnight or so, I figured I would start on a different area of the aircraft.....

....Such as the Nose area.
The panels around the Oil Cooler didn't really line up, so I bent things just a little. Problem is that I added just ONE more vertex to a nearly rectangular part and the whole Component kind of fell apart with bleeds all over the place.... At 2 AM, I figured I would give up for the evening.

No, at 2 AM, I wasn't going to be bothered with screenshots to illustrate a rather depressing situation. If this was a Tutorial, I would feel obligated for illustrations.

- Ivan.
 
Fewer Missing Pieces

Most of the missing pieces were added over the last couple days. The Oil Cooler Exhaust is still not right, but I am fairly satisfied with the rest of the shapes. There are still lots of little missing pieces.

The Total Resource Count thus far is
1198 Parts
30 Components

I am very surprised I could get this far and still have 100 Parts left over. There are also no significant bleeds thus far either.

The Tail section probably gave me the hardest time overall. Next was the Oil Cooler area. After looking at LOTS of photographs, I am still not sure I know what the shape really should be.

- Ivan.
 
Oil Coolers Again

Widening the area in front of the Canopy wasn't very difficult and seems closer to the actual shape. I believe it may need to be wider still so that the Oil Cooler Exhaust is completely straight. That brought the Parts Count up to an even 1100.

At this point, the hard stuff is done. There are quite a few remaining pieces though:

Dive Brakes
Guns
Antenna Mast
Canopy Brace over the Rear Gunner
Engine Exhausts

.....
- Ivan.
 
Last night I finished adding:

Canopy Brace over the Rear Gunner
Exhausts
Antenna Mast

This morning I added

Dive Brakes

There is a fairly bad bleed that results with the Dive Brakes so it appears that the Assembly sequence for the wings will change pretty seriously. The second Screenshot also gives a pretty good view of the underside whcih seems kinda bare without a large bomb in place.

I am very amazed at the small size of the Dive Brakes and how they can hold the aircraft below 400 mph in a vertical dive. I also haven't figured out what the aerodynamic effects should be when they are deployed.

Total Parts Count is now 1170 which means I don't have enough resources left over to do anything serious.

- Ivan.
 
kind of a dumb question,
but, if this is released,
will a bomb appear when armed in the sim?

a stuka dive bomber
just isn't a dive bomber
without the bomb.

btw, damn nice job.
she's a beaut
 
Hi Smilo,

The Bomb thing had occurred to me also. The simple answer is "No Bomb" without some more serious messing around with SCASM. I am tempted to do that anyway. Right now I am having some serious issues combining the dive brakes into the rest of the plane without introducing LOTS of bleeds. I have an idea I set up for last night but was too tired to actually do the assembly.

There is lots more work to get this thing even close to release. Note that the version I sent you hops around a bit in the simulator? It is just the Veltro AIR file with the contact points, spring rates, and cockpit viewpoint adjusted. There have been no serious changes thus far.

The loadouts for the Stuka don't adjust well to CFS DP files. We can't change the weight of bomb but can only change the count.

- Ivan.
 
Just spent an hour and change working on the Dive Brakes issue. I tried putting Dive Brakes and Main Gear Strut into the Left / Right Landing Gear group and the result is that they bleed through the Inner Wing from below and the Outter Wing bleeds through THEM at slightly above the Centerline.

I am probably too far gone tonight to try the next idea....

Good Night All.
- Ivan.
 
Just a question,
Ivan; if we did without the dive breaks, could we get a bomb instead? I think the dive breaks can be incorporated into the air file anyway...right??

I really don't have a clue.

Dave :mixedsmi:
 
Hi No Dice,

It really isn't a trade-off here. First of all, with about 30 Parts left, I don't have enough resources left to create a good bomb anyway, but even if I did, how would you control the display of it? CFS stock aircraft use a different format AIR file than AF99 uses. They have variables hooked into bomb load and even separate model files for the bombs. We can't really control this stuff with a FS98 format AIR file which is what AF99 creates. To correct this requires moving the actual 3D drawing code into a CFS format AIR file. I can only imagine how we could build things better if I could rework some of the code in AF99. It COULD offer some of the effects we now use SCASM to achieve.

Regarding Dive Brakes and the AIR file, the EFFECT of the Dive Brake is what the AIR file simulates. The "Spoiler" setting is what is used to simulate a Dive Brake. The MDL file just determines what to display when "Spoiler" is deployed. A friend of mine at work commented that "Your 3D model really doesn't have to look like an Airplane, does it?" He was correct as Hubbabubba proved so well with his Jeep which is basically a non-flying airplane. When I sent him my attempt at a Jeep AIR file, he noticed that when he drove it off a cliff, he could still slightly control the pitch and yaw even though wheels were not touching the ground. Of course he was right. In my version, the control surfaces were still there but just MUCH smaller in effect.

Nice Try!
- Ivan.
 
Well I am learning here with your help.

I know we can control drop tanks with the spoiler key, is it possible to to something simular with a bomb ??

Dave
 
Assignment of Controls

Hi No Dice,

Perhaps a bit more explanation is in order here (At least this is my understanding of how things work):

The following are State Retaining controls in CFS. By state retaining, I mean that their state does not change unless something affects them:
Landing Gear
Flaps
Spoilers

When you set the Flaps or Spoilers, they retain their setting until you adjust them. Flaps and Spoilers have intermediate settings with perhaps 5 or 10 settings between full extended and full retracted. Landing Gear is slightly different in that you can't set them at 50% retracted. All of these controls have a max and minimum value which we interpret in the MDL file to be a percentage. Aircraft Animator uses that to "Animate" the control by rotating a part of the 3D Model.

In your example of the Drop Tank, what you are really seeing is a very funny looking rounded cylindrical Spoiler under the aircraft. It may have Drag and Pitch effects when deployed but it won't change your fuel available as a real drop tank would. The Flaps or Landing Gear would work as well except that most aircraft actually have Landing Gear and Flaps.

As for a Bomb, there isn't a way I know of that a FS98 model can detect the loading of a bomb in the CFS. The stock aircraft use a different format model that CAN detect such and display a bomb from the graphics library.

This model incompatibility issue is also the reason why your AI partners in a mission won't have their landing gear lowered when sitting on the runway. It is also the reason why animated propeller spinners disappear when flown by the AI. Neither Piece is hooked into the variables used by the CFS engine, so they don't display.

Hope that makes sense.
- Ivan.
 
Last night I believe I finally figured out a way to display the Dive Brakes with minimal issues. The problem is that it will cost a few more polygons.

The prior assembly sequence was the following:
Inner Wing
Inner Flaps
Outter Wing
Outter Flaps
Aileron
Main Gear Strut
.....
Dive Brakes.

The new sequence will be:
Dive Brakes
Outter Wing
Main Gear Strut
Inner Wing
Inner Flaps
Outter Flaps
Aileron.

I only did a quick test last night but the idea looks like it will work.
The problem is that I only used a 4 point opening on the underside of the Wing where it meets the Main Gear Strut. When the glue was completely horizontal, that did not matter. Now that the glue is oblique, the opening must match the cross section of the Main Gear Strut or Parts of the underside of the Wing will bleed through the MG Strut. To make the opening have more points will need more Parts / Polygons.

Most of this aircraft was pretty economical to build. The Canopy and Canopy Frame were not.

- Ivan.
 
All that makes sense to me Ivan, So I need you to fix that problem. I have addon planes that work in missions, and others "like you said" that just can not be used on take off or landing missions. You and Hubba must have
already worked out a program for this ?

Dave :mixedsmi:
 
Actually it was someone else who worked this out. So far, I have chosen not to use it because I don't have an interest in missions. I just like building pretty models. There is already plenty for me to do with existing projects.

BTW, This post is being typed on my daughter's new laptop. Finished installing Microsoft Office about an hour ago. Mine is now offline which is a bit of a pain. Just don't have the table space for both. Her machine has twice the memory and three times the disk space of mine and cost just a bit over half as much as mine did. It definitely has more processor but I am not sure of the relative performance. Then again, she doesn't have a Radeon graphics processor and mine does. In the three years I have had my laptop, I can't remember ever needing a graphics processor.

- Ivan.
 
This pretty much does it for the Ju 87B-2. I have about 4 polygons left and need about 6 to add some brackets for the Dive Brakes. I can't think of anyplace to steal some polygons from to use without noticeably degrading the appearance.

Note that there are two noticeably bleeds from the flaps as a result of putting in the Dive Brakes. The first bleed shown is the Inner Flap (Light Blue) bleeding through the Outter Flap (Orange) when seen from slightly aft of the Wing center line. The second bleed is the Opposite Side Outter Flap (Orange) bleeding through the Opposite Side Inner Flap (Light Blue) when seen from slightly forward of the Wing cente rline. Neither bleed is terribly severe and I also have no means of fixing at this point.

The mounts for the Dive Brakes will need some thought.

- Ivan.
 
Ivan said:
This pretty much does it for the Ju 87B-2. I have about 4 polygons left and need about 6 to add some brackets for the Dive Brakes. I can't think of anyplace to steal some polygons from to use without noticeably degrading the appearance.

(...)

The mounts for the Dive Brakes will need some thought.

- Ivan.
Click to expand...

Hi Yvan:wavey:

A question; how many polygons would you save if, let's say, you didn't had to make the tail up and including the blue rear fuselage section?

A proposition; if it would let you have enough of a margin to do your dive brakes properly, I could easily "glue" together that tail section to the main section. Just do the front minus the tail and the tail minus the front. Can you do it?
 
Hi Hubbabubba,

If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that I break up the Dark Blue Fin Fillet and Tail Forward Component and add it to the Aft Fuselage section? If so, then I can tell you I already tried that. The Body, Main / Tail Group Glue is automatic and doesn't work if the separation is at the Fillet to Fin line. (The Stabilisers bleed through the Fillet just slightly.)

This is the way I had it way back at the start. The problem also is that when I did this, I had to Glue the Fillet Pieces as single Parts and that actually uses up more Parts because of the additional Glue Parts required to attach single Polygons instead of throwing them into an existing component.

So far, I am looking at the Tip of the Antenna Mast and the multiple sections of the Rudder. I am also looking at putting the Antenna Base and Antenna Mast into the Canopy / High Wing Group to save two Glue Parts.

I can also take out a minor fix at the MG Strut and Wing joint....

There are really Three Dive Brake Brackets, but if I put in just Two, most folks don't count and wont notice.

- Ivan.
 
I started last night with 1196 of 1199 Parts used. The limit that AF99 enforces is REALLY 1199. The application won't allow 1200 Parts.

Two Brackes on each side for the Dive Brakes needed 8 Parts not 6 as I thought earlier: Each side has two Brackets with a Glue Part holding them together and an additional Glue Part holding them to the Dive Brakes for 4 additional Parts per side.

Three Glue parts were eliminated by putting the Antenna Base, Antenna Mast, and Antenna Tip into the Canopy / High Wing Group. Two Parts were removed from the fix I did earlier for the underside of the wing and Main Gear Strut. This should have worked, but I was still over by one Polygon. The last one came from replacing the two Parts on the underside of the Tail Gear Fairing with a single one. Perhaps I really started with 1197 used?

I also increased the moments of inertia on each axis and it appears the nervous bounce has gone away.

- Ivan.
 
Ivan said:
Hi Hubbabubba,

If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that I break up the Dark Blue Fin Fillet and Tail Forward Component and add it to the Aft Fuselage section? If so, then I can tell you I already tried that. The Body, Main / Tail Group Glue is automatic and doesn't work if the separation is at the Fillet to Fin line. (The Stabilisers bleed through the Fillet just slightly.)

This is the way I had it way back at the start. The problem also is that when I did this, I had to Glue the Fillet Pieces as single Parts and that actually uses up more Parts because of the additional Glue Parts required to attach single Polygons instead of throwing them into an existing component.

So far, I am looking at the Tip of the Antenna Mast and the multiple sections of the Rudder. I am also looking at putting the Antenna Base and Antenna Mast into the Canopy / High Wing Group to save two Glue Parts.

I can also take out a minor fix at the MG Strut and Wing joint....

There are really Three Dive Brake Brackets, but if I put in just Two, most folks don't count and wont notice.

- Ivan.
Click to expand...

No, Ivan, you didn't understood what I was proposing.

Imagine that you were to make two models. One would be this;

frontpart.jpg


and the other would be that;

aftpart.jpg


I could then join THIS to THAT with SCASM. In short, you would have to build a tail-less model. then a tail-only model.

It would have to be done once AF99 work is finished, textures, animation and all, but it could be done quite easily. I see no visual issues here because the "cut" is vertical without overlapping front/aft, unless you want to add an aerial between the mast and the vertical surface of the tail. And even that could be cut at the separation point.
 
SCASM Carving

WOW Hubbabubba!

Those are seriously impressive images you put together!

I would not want to do that because this project is really an exercise in how to put together a project WITHIN AF99 limits. If I was doing the multiple Assemblies idea like I will have to do on the Bombers, I would not have been so economical on the Tail Pieces or in the Cockpit area. That would have taken out the Parts count limits and without those, the Pitot, Antenna, and Exhausts would have had more detail. The Flap Bleeds also could be removed with SCASM final assembly.

The suggestion is that if *I* can put something like this together with just AF99, so can anyone else.

I'll post some screenshots to show the result. I believe the animation on this beast should be pretty simple.
Thanks for the effort on the illustration.

- Ivan.
 
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