Gentlemen,
I'm a bit rusty on the subject: what causes AI planes to disappear when they land??
Cees
I'm a bit rusty on the subject: what causes AI planes to disappear when they land??
Cees
Disappearing planes
- Thread starter Cees Donker
- Start date
Donation drives
aeromed202
SOH-CM-2014
I believe it's no available parking space for it. I would have thought FS would sort AI and just not land anything in that situation but I might be wrong.
One thing that makes AI disappear when landing, is when the airport doesn't have adequate parking, for instance, a B747 landing at an airport where the largest parking is for GA.
Another possible culprit is if the aircraft is on its third approach, having had to abort two previous landing attempts. If the aircraft has to abort that third landing as wel, it will instantly disappear.
Another cause for disappearing traffic is, if it has to wait too long at the runway, or while taxying on the taxiways. Typically this is something like five minutes.
I think that just about covers it all.
Another possible culprit is if the aircraft is on its third approach, having had to abort two previous landing attempts. If the aircraft has to abort that third landing as wel, it will instantly disappear.
Another cause for disappearing traffic is, if it has to wait too long at the runway, or while taxying on the taxiways. Typically this is something like five minutes.
I think that just about covers it all.
I have four parking spaces for four planes. Is that not enough? They all are there at start up and fly off, but on return most of them disappear!
Cees
Cees
How often do the flights repeat? If often, you may still require more parking. Also apt is parking codes and types, the planes me be set to military parking codes in the cfg, but your field only has spots for GA, etc, vise versa and so on.
Jamie.
PS. Odd, after having just reinstalled GW3 I'm currently installing all of your fine fields, thanks for those.
Jamie.
PS. Odd, after having just reinstalled GW3 I'm currently installing all of your fine fields, thanks for those.
Terry
SOH-CM-2016
I have four parking spaces for four planes. Is that not enough? They all are there at start up and fly off, but on return most of them disappear!
Cees
Are they having to deal with mountains on approach? AI will not weave around a mountain to get to the runway, they will hit it and disappear.
is this okay?
Flightplans:
AC#1,FOKKERV,20%,1Hr,VFR,00:00:00,00:15:00,250,R,0001,EHTX,00:30:00,00:45:00,250,R,0000,EHTX
AC#2,Fokk16,20%,1Hr,VFR,00:15:00,00:30:00,250,R,0001,EHTX,00:45:00,01:00:00,250,R,0000,EHTX
AC#3,FOKKERV,30%,1Hr,VFR,00:30:00,00:45:00,250,R,0001,EHTX,00:00:00,00:15:00,250,R,0000,EHTX
AC#4,Fokk17,30%,1Hr,VFR,00:15:00,00:30:00,250,R,0001,EHTX,00:45:00,01:00:00,250,R,0000,EHTX
Cees
Flightplans:
AC#1,FOKKERV,20%,1Hr,VFR,00:00:00,00:15:00,250,R,0001,EHTX,00:30:00,00:45:00,250,R,0000,EHTX
AC#2,Fokk16,20%,1Hr,VFR,00:15:00,00:30:00,250,R,0001,EHTX,00:45:00,01:00:00,250,R,0000,EHTX
AC#3,FOKKERV,30%,1Hr,VFR,00:30:00,00:45:00,250,R,0001,EHTX,00:00:00,00:15:00,250,R,0000,EHTX
AC#4,Fokk17,30%,1Hr,VFR,00:15:00,00:30:00,250,R,0001,EHTX,00:45:00,01:00:00,250,R,0000,EHTX
Cees
I'd check the parking codes first, failing that, increase the repetition from 1hr to maybe 6, if it works, reduce further until you hit the lowest working time? Or try adding a test parking spot temporarily, the sim may be keeping the spots available for the repeating four aircraft to be spawned?
Jamie
Jamie
Sometimes, if there is too little effective time between two flights, AI will behave rather odd. The rule is 3 minutes for TNGs, and a minimum of 5 minutes for a full-stop landing.
Normally, 15 minutes should be enough for a VFR flight, but I've seen aircraft disappear on flightplans with a 20-minute stop-over. Maybe you could try to expand the time between 2 flights to 20-25 minutes, and see what that gives...?
Normally, 15 minutes should be enough for a VFR flight, but I've seen aircraft disappear on flightplans with a 20-minute stop-over. Maybe you could try to expand the time between 2 flights to 20-25 minutes, and see what that gives...?
rdaniell
SOH-CM-2013
I concur with Jamie. Check the parking codes first. Secondly, add a couple more parking spaces. Adding more parking spaces did the trick when I was facing a similar problem.
On another AI issue: Have any of you noticed that if you are too close to an AI generated flight while following it on downwind leg, it will just keep going and going on the downwind leg never turning base? When I have that happen, I just break off and rejoin in behind the aircraft when it finally turns base. Sometimes I just like to fly in formation right down to landing.
Romeo-Delta
I had one plane disappearing at take off and another plane doing 2 tng's. The other two planes landed ok. I put more parking space in, adjusted the parkingcode. I'l take a look again tomorrow and try Jamie's suggestion!
Cees
Cees
RD,
I've generally found that AI is very shy when it comes to doing anything other than straight level flight, never fly with AI doing anything more complex, they are easily distracted. And revertto closing their eyes and hoping for the best.
There are exceptions, I had a good wing-man flight with the Alpha Vulcan flying my PSS Vulcan, take-off, flight and landing in formation. Makes me lean towards the air/cfg file as the culprit, some more AI friendly than others.
Jamie
I've generally found that AI is very shy when it comes to doing anything other than straight level flight, never fly with AI doing anything more complex, they are easily distracted. And revertto closing their eyes and hoping for the best.
There are exceptions, I had a good wing-man flight with the Alpha Vulcan flying my PSS Vulcan, take-off, flight and landing in formation. Makes me lean towards the air/cfg file as the culprit, some more AI friendly than others.
Jamie
nigel richards
Charter Member
Hope this helps - its a common cause GIVE THEM TIME!
The “37-Minute Problem” when Using @ – The MSFS AI/ATC engine doesn’t “like” tardy AI. If an AI aircraft is delayed on departure due to, for example, runway congestion or a long queue at the hold-short point such that the aircraft has not taken-off within about twenty minutes of the scheduled departure time, it simply disappears from the taxiway. Likewise, if an AI is forced to perform several missed approaches making it very late for landing, it disappears
AI is activated one sector away from the user aircraft at the entry time specified in the sector transition table. Where the entry time is based on the specified cruise speed, AI activation will occur “on-time” (i.e., at the time calculated by the AI/ATC engine) and all is well. But, if the arrival time was specified using “@”, the cruise speed used by the compiler to calculate the sector entry time may have been significantly different from that specified for the AI. When “@” is used to specify a later arrival time (as it usually is), the AI will be activated “late” relative to the time calculated by the AI/ATC engine. If it is more than about 20 minutes late, it is discarded. From extensive testing (by others), it has been determined that the critical time difference is 22 minutes. Given the 15 minute allowance for approach, landing and taxiing, the 22 minute interval equates to 37 minutes later that a user-specified arrival time. Hence, the name “37-minute problem”
The 37-minute problem is most likely to occur when simulating scheduled airline long-haul operations where the user-specified arrival time is often substantially later than the simply-calculated (distance/speed) next-to-final-sector arrival time plus the fifteen minute approach and landing allowance.
Apparently, the AI engine doesn’t “care” about AI activating arriving early. So, to overcome the 37-minute problem, some suppliers of freeware AI flight plan data, such asWoAI, MAIW and, until recently, AIG Alpha-India Group, specify a cruise speed in aircraft text files in the order of 200 kts for all aircraft. This ensures that AI activation time for any AI having a reasonable user-specified arrival will not be “late” - since the cruise speed then specified in the traffic file will be less than the cruise speed calculated by the compiler to accommodate the user-specified arrival time.
AI Flight Planner uses a similar approach. It halves the aircraft cruise speeds before saving them in the traffic file. But, when it decompiles a traffic file that it has previously compiled, it then doubles the saved cruise speeds. Thus, this “evasive action” is invisible to the user – unless he/she happens to notice that a cruise speed originally being an odd number is returned after de-compilation one knot lower. Other than this possible slight changes, there are no known side-effects of this scheme.
The “37-Minute Problem” when Using @ – The MSFS AI/ATC engine doesn’t “like” tardy AI. If an AI aircraft is delayed on departure due to, for example, runway congestion or a long queue at the hold-short point such that the aircraft has not taken-off within about twenty minutes of the scheduled departure time, it simply disappears from the taxiway. Likewise, if an AI is forced to perform several missed approaches making it very late for landing, it disappears
AI is activated one sector away from the user aircraft at the entry time specified in the sector transition table. Where the entry time is based on the specified cruise speed, AI activation will occur “on-time” (i.e., at the time calculated by the AI/ATC engine) and all is well. But, if the arrival time was specified using “@”, the cruise speed used by the compiler to calculate the sector entry time may have been significantly different from that specified for the AI. When “@” is used to specify a later arrival time (as it usually is), the AI will be activated “late” relative to the time calculated by the AI/ATC engine. If it is more than about 20 minutes late, it is discarded. From extensive testing (by others), it has been determined that the critical time difference is 22 minutes. Given the 15 minute allowance for approach, landing and taxiing, the 22 minute interval equates to 37 minutes later that a user-specified arrival time. Hence, the name “37-minute problem”
The 37-minute problem is most likely to occur when simulating scheduled airline long-haul operations where the user-specified arrival time is often substantially later than the simply-calculated (distance/speed) next-to-final-sector arrival time plus the fifteen minute approach and landing allowance.
Apparently, the AI engine doesn’t “care” about AI activating arriving early. So, to overcome the 37-minute problem, some suppliers of freeware AI flight plan data, such asWoAI, MAIW and, until recently, AIG Alpha-India Group, specify a cruise speed in aircraft text files in the order of 200 kts for all aircraft. This ensures that AI activation time for any AI having a reasonable user-specified arrival will not be “late” - since the cruise speed then specified in the traffic file will be less than the cruise speed calculated by the compiler to accommodate the user-specified arrival time.
AI Flight Planner uses a similar approach. It halves the aircraft cruise speeds before saving them in the traffic file. But, when it decompiles a traffic file that it has previously compiled, it then doubles the saved cruise speeds. Thus, this “evasive action” is invisible to the user – unless he/she happens to notice that a cruise speed originally being an odd number is returned after de-compilation one knot lower. Other than this possible slight changes, there are no known side-effects of this scheme.
ian elliot
SOH-CM-2025
Have you got all the "short hold nodes" in place on taxiways leading on to runways, thats caused me a few problems in the past, mainly with take offs but some landings also.
cheers ian
cheers ian
nigel richards
Charter Member
Yikes!
Ian, you just brought back memories of that very frustrating problem!
It once had me really stumped with an afcad I scratch built.
fs is hyper sensitive to nodes in wrong places, even a bit too far from the runway sometimes causes headaches.
Ian, you just brought back memories of that very frustrating problem!
It once had me really stumped with an afcad I scratch built.
fs is hyper sensitive to nodes in wrong places, even a bit too far from the runway sometimes causes headaches.
Keep getting TNG's tough these are not programmed!
Cees
Cees
Terry
SOH-CM-2016
That's new, in all these years I have never seen an unprogrammed TNG! I have seen a lot of touch and disappears if the parking isn't right.
rdaniell
SOH-CM-2013
If the runway is not long enough, the airplane will do a TNG. In the past, I built really short runways on purpose to simulate a crop duster
spraying a field or a fighter making a straffing pass. In these cases, the airplane never even touched down.
Romeo-Delta