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DOVE Tail FSW release May 2017

Not sure why, but I always remain a tiny bit cautious with a product I am less familiar with. P3D I know like the back of my hand...FSX_ST feels familiar, but I disdain all of the marketing and bling layered on the user interface. I get enough of that in the world outside of my sim sanctuary.

Of course I will jump into the new Dovetail offering, and I will attempt to maintain an unbiased perspective when evaluating it against P3D4. I tend to operate on a plus/minus logic. The platform with more plus "tics" will prevail, but it will be a necessity to become fluent in the new platform as well. I'm thankful that first glimpses of the development work flow look familiar. Not sure I have any more brain space left to learn even more 4D architecture. lol

The question for me, is the one stated above. Will Dovetail commit to a longer term relationship with their market base who, by the way, tend to be more sophisticated than your average "gamer". The flight sim group tend to be older, more sophisticated in their expectations, and of course, they have a history of participating in the development curve.

We know where LM is heading, and more importantly which developers are already on board. If Dovetail marketing was paying attention, they would have learned from other attempts that have not made it out of the gate. I would anticipate that they will be inclined to dialogue with 3rd party developers, who have survived because they listen to their customer base.

Just a few additional thoughts.
 
Minimum GPU is a GTX 970? My 6GB 1060 would likely force all my sliders to the left. I hope P3D v4 doesn't say the same.
 
Gordon always good to read your level headed perspective. I get pretty fired up and then tame out over time! Haha. It's probably a mix of the Italian and Scottish in me and the fact that I'm still a young father....with 3 kiddies at home...so my patience goes to.them and my frustrations peak through when something near and near is being messed with on a fundamental.level! I support tour sentiment as well. I should have disclaimered my comments with I'm thinking out loud here as I try to sort though the issues like all of you. Lol.
 
I think I will just wait for the new P3D and be done with it. I think that's where the market and tech are heading overall.
 
Right now my money is also on P3d4, if as others have reported, old add on's are not going to be compatible at all then we are starting our collections again from scratch. I would never have switched to P3d in the first place if I could not use the older aircraft. I just hope when the new version comes out they drop some of there silly licensing conditions (that are never enforced).
 
gman5250 said:
Not sure why, but I always remain a tiny bit cautious with a product I am less familiar with. P3D I know like the back of my hand...FSX_ST feels familiar, but I disdain all of the marketing and bling layered on the user interface. I get enough of that in the world outside of my sim sanctuary.

Of course I will jump into the new Dovetail offering, and I will attempt to maintain an unbiased perspective when evaluating it against P3D4. I tend to operate on a plus/minus logic. The platform with more plus "tics" will prevail, but it will be a necessity to become fluent in the new platform as well. I'm thankful that first glimpses of the development work flow look familiar. Not sure I have any more brain space left to learn even more 4D architecture. lol

The question for me, is the one stated above. Will Dovetail commit to a longer term relationship with their market base who, by the way, tend to be more sophisticated than your average "gamer". The flight sim group tend to be older, more sophisticated in their expectations, and of course, they have a history of participating in the development curve.

We know where LM is heading, and more importantly which developers are already on board. If Dovetail marketing was paying attention, they would have learned from other attempts that have not made it out of the gate. I would anticipate that they will be inclined to dialogue with 3rd party developers, who have survived because they listen to their customer base.

Just a few additional thoughts.
Click to expand...

I'll have to disagree with the flight sim group having more sophisticated expectations. Unlike most of you (us?), I am an average gamer, as you put it, and I've seen FS developers get away with and actually be praised for highly unoptimized models/textures that bring even powerful systems to their knees and buggy system implementations that would otherwise bring forth the rage of "average gamers".
 
I completely agree. Based on the popularity of sophisticated products like A2A and PMDG and VRS and now Milviz. If they aren't more sophisticated and demanding then these groups wouldn't be as successful as they have been and their products aren't cheap...so for a niche market I'd say the majority prefer it speaking with their wallets. All the scenery and terrain add-ons and weather add-ons wouldn't be here if there wasn't a more sophisticated demand for the realism they bring.

Just the fact that there are joysticks rudder pedals and all manner of peripherals available to purchase to play these Sims speaks to the higher level of sophistication present in the user base.
 
000rick000 said:
Also, sounds like IF you want your product included it has to go through steam. Period. Meaning no more cool little apps like JoinFS, anything by bjoern, any cool gaugrs like AI carriers...all this would.have to be on steam... what a head ache. What about repaints...Aime said they've gone under the hood to ensure NO backwards compatability...so if venture to guess that they will most definitely control HOW and when content is delivered...

I for one will not be repainting anything for it if I have to go through steam...no thanks. It's a headache I don't want to deal with.

So Likely goodbye freeware sceneries and fun little addins.
Click to expand...

I understand the frustration, but if modders were able to make freeware mods for Steam games like Skyrim, including new textures, new models, new sceneries etc.... why would it be difficult/impossible for FS ?
 
I dont think its impossible...just a matter of IF FSW will even allow it. Currently it sounds like there is NO SDK, disconnect or similar for.non payware devs. They have a built in editor.type.thing but that doesn't sound like it's going to offer true development for the freeware guy. It's all about DTG and what they are going to allow. Steam isn't the issue it's just another layer to deal with...which may scare away people who dev who simply don't want to deal with them. I certainly don't. But that's just me. P3Dv4+ will certainly bring much more innovation. And remember the P3D developers ARE the former ACES STUDIO guys from MS foe.the most part...so they are developing 100% for the Aviator, not the "gamer". Their business structure doesn't require nickel and diming the consumer for new content.

I'm going to wait and see what happens with the first few people who take the plunge, read reviews and see what happens. If it's just the Carenado show then I'm good. PBR may be implemented but three scenery looks the same asP3D... and my current setup looks better. I have A2A and RealAir which already have jiggly needless and physics... so unless there's something else, something big... I'll be very hesitant to jump ship. Seems like if open development for the little guy was to be a part of it, it would be broadcast as a selling point to the community which was built on 3rd party apps that keeps FSX relevant. Seeing as they have not and they're saying things instead like "I'm not sure, that's part of 3PP group..." those are RED flags and cues that the game is a foot.
 
What's really sad: If they a screw this up, there's no one else that can come to the rescue since they own the rights. Low chance they'll ever give that up. I'm prepping for worst hoping for best!
 
Well this also happened to the switch to FSX from FS9. Although many old aircraft would port to FSX, some needed work, an some didn't. Some of boys from Aces are part of the dev group so this may be what FSXI was supposed to be. Still, many of us have some serious $$$ tied up in FSX. There needs to be a way some of our investment can be returned.
 
The money you have tied up in FSX is not invested, it's spent: no more of an investment than money "invested" with a bookmaker. DTG have said there's no backwards compatibility with FSX, a now 10+ year old technology.
 
Guys, you MUST get your heads around the fact that FSW is NOT an upgrade/update to FSX at all.
You MUST realise that it IS a completely new sim/game with no backward compatibility!!
So, as, I'm sure you have realised by now, one does not 'invest' in a sim/game. one spends money.

So far, we know nothing much at all, except that the release will be 'early access', as in beta!
So, like Microsoft, DTG are releasing something that they expect their (paid) users will troubleshoot for them... wait for forthcoming service packs/updates!

So, just like you paid for FS2002, FS2004 & FSX, & the different versions (not updates) of P3D, do not expect discounts.

BTW, having add-ons only available through DTG/Steam is a concern. The backbone of our hobby are the amazing freeware developers out there, & their future role in this case, seems to have become marginalized.
 
Just passing and had to make a comment........:encouragement:
I might (just might) look at the 'early access' offering, I'm curious to see just how well they have implemented the '64 bit program'.
While this is good news for high end users it could be a repeat of the early days of FSX for many.
As for third party content, I'd point out that DTG seem to be very big on keeping 'additional content' under their control, the 'Train Sim' series appear to be an example of their business model.
However, best not to jump to negative conclusions before the finished product becomes available.
I won't be jumping in for at least a month so that is probably 'good timing', unintentional on my part I hasten to add.
:biggrin-new:
 
The problem with such announcements is that statements are made that do not clarify the worries and questions raised by the community. To wait and see how things turn out on release is tantamount to sticking one's head in the sand. We have the opportunity NOW to voice our concerns with the business model, the developer stance etc and possibly bring by a change in direction to the benefit of all.
I am fully aware and understanding of the fact that compatibility with fsx addons is not available. FSW may have the fsx codebase, but that does not automatically imply that fsx addons can or even should run in FSW at all. I do believe that the business model here may well stifle development to the extent that FSW might not survive against XP11 and P3D in a new release, especially if the latter is released as 64-bit. I, like many of the previous posters here, will be waiting on reviews from as many independent sources as possible before considering this. I wish DTG well for the final steps and hope that they are willing and able to listen to the concerns of our community, which really does have different needs and expectations from those of the more game-oriented pastimes' communities.


Andrew Entwistle
 
I could care less that FSX addons don't port over or ever work at all in the New Sim. I fully realize it's a new sim. good to cut the umbilical early and swiftly to the past tech. and embrace all new. I'm ok with this. The point is that, DTG will not build everything into their core sim...just like FSX...so things like for example AI carriers....gauges, freeware scenery, Tackpack (if they allow it at all) any - solid "can't live without this" little tool or module, is now up in the air if anything like this will be allowed to be made and published as freeware, and even if yes, it must pass through Steam. Very lame. Realize it's their choice. I'm going to wait and see exactly what it is and what the reviews say...I stand down from my epic soap box for now! LOL...
 
I can reply to this thread as someone who has been to the DTG offices and spoken to the flight team - indeed I would count at least one of the members of that team as a friend. However, I'm not just going to defend them because, like everyone else, I still have unanswered questions and need to wait and see what comes out.

What I can say though is that they have very actively engaged with a large part of the FS world, from developers and add-on designers through to the ongoing communication you can see on forums. They are not operating "in a bubble" but I don't think that even they have all the answers to give yet. When they have, we'll get them. I do think that recent releases have meant that they have needed to step up their game from what they already achieved with Flight School, so it's probable that they are still making changes to the sim. We don't know whether they are and what they will be. yet. :)

Cheers,

Ian P
 
DTG's willingness to interact with the community must not be underestimated. They asked about everything that's wrong in FSX and got a tremendous amount of feedback. I'm fairly curious to see how much of that grocery list they've managed to cross off for FSW.
 
Anybody interested in more official statements about FSW should dig through the posts from the DTG team in the FSW forum on Avsim.
https://www.avsim.com/forums/forum/757-the-dovetail-flight-sim-world/

From what I could gather, FSW is a long term project with a limited scope at the beginning to get people interested without producing an unfocused mess. Talk Flight School Plus. The Flight School elements are in to target beginners, the initial focus is on GA because they're easy to produce and easy to fly, there's active cooperation with third party developers to make the platform attractive for users, AccuSim stuff to attract more serious simmers, 64 bit, ORBX textures, weather effects and pixel-based rendering for the VFX harlots and there's an updated nav database for parts of the world.
Scenery rendering improvements are investigated, while airliners and ATC improvements are long term goals.

All things considered, and assuming that DTG earns enough to keep development going, FSW might become an alternative in a few years. I'll wait.
 
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