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Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.
ELCO PTboat, pilotable, FREE
- Thread starter lazarus
- Start date
falcon409
SOH-CM-2025
Thanks Pam. . .never had a boat the size of the PT. . .mine was a 28ft Bayliner and it rolled into the turns. I loaded your newest FDE but no real change (no roll). Don't worry about it. The PT is a blast without it. . .it was just something I noticed having owned a boat, but no one else has mentioned it so let's go with the masses, lol.
warchild
Charter Member
No roll?? All right.. Please let me come back to that.. theres a little redwing that needs my attention and a second boat with the same problem ( no roll ) but it weighs almost 200000 pound so that may account for that.. I'm gonna have to get to the bottom of this though. You know me.. if it aint right it aint right, so i'll keep whittlin away till it is .. I promise..
You owned a bayliner?? Cool
.. I owned a 25 foot piver ( trimaran ) and lived on a 33 foot aries and a 35 foot columbia.. Love sailing ..
falcon409
SOH-CM-2025
Cool, I loved sailing but never had the time for it. My Dad taught me. . .the trimaran would have been awesome. . .I always dreamed of taking a Caribbean sailing cruise on a Trimaran. . .just a dream though.:salute:No roll?? All right.. Please let me come back to that.. theres a little redwing that needs my attention and a second boat with the same problem ( no roll ) but it weighs almost 200000 pound so that may account for that.. I'm gonna have to get to the bottom of this though. You know me.. if it aint right it aint right, so i'll keep whittlin away till it is .. I promise..
You owned a bayliner?? Cool
Hey Pam, fellow PT boat enthusiasts.
I've 2 different flavors of Sboot about ready to go-AI/pilotable, static VC. Salvaged CFS2-Usio's and another Nipponese chaps- translator wouldn't move it. I'll be getting that organised in the next couple of days to play with. Got side tracked today on a Light Fleet carrier. Soon, soon.
I've 2 different flavors of Sboot about ready to go-AI/pilotable, static VC. Salvaged CFS2-Usio's and another Nipponese chaps- translator wouldn't move it. I'll be getting that organised in the next couple of days to play with. Got side tracked today on a Light Fleet carrier. Soon, soon.
warchild
Charter Member
That'll be fun..
I and craig ( Classic Wings ) Have teamed up on a schnellboot for release later this year.. yours should make a fun addition to the fleet as i believe that all machines of a type behave similarly so we can use the fde ive been working on for my schnellboot on these schnellboots as well..
Now let me differentiate between PT Boats and schnellboats. Yes, the schnellboot was german, yes, it sank more than 230000 gross tons of allied shipping.. Yes, it flew the damnable swastika. Other than that, it was an incredible machine.
PT Boats were kind of like the F-16s of WWII. Small, fast Highly maneuverable.. Weighing between 30 to 75 tons PTs were powered by 3 Packard V-12 Gasoline engines producing 1350 - 2500 horsepower. They could turn faster than a junk yard dog. It had a range of 379 miles and a top speed of 47 kts ( early WII models. later models were only able to make 41 kts ). With their large flat planing hulls they were perfect for river and shallow seas work..
The Schnellboot ( Or S-boot or E-boot ) was a 110 foot long deep keeled 93 ton guided missile. Oddly, it had only 1 foot more draught than a pt boat, but there the likeness ends.. powered by three Daimler Benz V-20 diesels developing 3000 hp each, the schnellboot was capable of a sustained top speed of 43 knts with burst speeds up to 60 kts. It was not made for fast turns though, as it was designed for use in the north sea where storms and high waves were common. It could deliver two torpedoes on target from 1200 meters out then reload with the backup set of torpedoes mounted directly behind the tubes. Made out of aluminum alloy and wood the schnellboot was spacious warm comfortable and with 6 feet of freeboard, dry. . Standard armament sonsisted of 2 × 533 mm torpedo tubes (4 torpedoes), 1 × twin 20 mm C/30 cannon, 1 × single 20 mm cannon, and 1 × 37 mm Flak 42 cannon. These boats gained a reputation for pulling up inside allied convoys and pissing off american cruiser and destroyer captains because you couldnt shoot at them. they were too low to the water.
Whatever flag these boats sailed under, they sailed with some very brave and hardy men.. In the world of small boat combat, these boats were the lions of the sea.
I and craig ( Classic Wings ) Have teamed up on a schnellboot for release later this year.. yours should make a fun addition to the fleet as i believe that all machines of a type behave similarly so we can use the fde ive been working on for my schnellboot on these schnellboots as well..
Now let me differentiate between PT Boats and schnellboats. Yes, the schnellboot was german, yes, it sank more than 230000 gross tons of allied shipping.. Yes, it flew the damnable swastika. Other than that, it was an incredible machine.
PT Boats were kind of like the F-16s of WWII. Small, fast Highly maneuverable.. Weighing between 30 to 75 tons PTs were powered by 3 Packard V-12 Gasoline engines producing 1350 - 2500 horsepower. They could turn faster than a junk yard dog. It had a range of 379 miles and a top speed of 47 kts ( early WII models. later models were only able to make 41 kts ). With their large flat planing hulls they were perfect for river and shallow seas work..
The Schnellboot ( Or S-boot or E-boot ) was a 110 foot long deep keeled 93 ton guided missile. Oddly, it had only 1 foot more draught than a pt boat, but there the likeness ends.. powered by three Daimler Benz V-20 diesels developing 3000 hp each, the schnellboot was capable of a sustained top speed of 43 knts with burst speeds up to 60 kts. It was not made for fast turns though, as it was designed for use in the north sea where storms and high waves were common. It could deliver two torpedoes on target from 1200 meters out then reload with the backup set of torpedoes mounted directly behind the tubes. Made out of aluminum alloy and wood the schnellboot was spacious warm comfortable and with 6 feet of freeboard, dry. . Standard armament sonsisted of 2 × 533 mm torpedo tubes (4 torpedoes), 1 × twin 20 mm C/30 cannon, 1 × single 20 mm cannon, and 1 × 37 mm Flak 42 cannon. These boats gained a reputation for pulling up inside allied convoys and pissing off american cruiser and destroyer captains because you couldnt shoot at them. they were too low to the water.
Whatever flag these boats sailed under, they sailed with some very brave and hardy men.. In the world of small boat combat, these boats were the lions of the sea.
More fun Schnellboot facts. Denmark operated a number of Sboots bailed from surrendered stocks post war,the last retired in the mid-late '60's.
The Royal Navy/SBS set up a special ops squadron buzzing about the baltic from 46 untill the late '50's,dropping agents, mapping mine fields and defences, and engauging in general spying-sculking-snatching, using a number of surrendered Sboots re-engined with a pair of 3000hp Napier Deltic diesels, bailed back to a quasi-civil German crewed squadron obstinately charged with EOD and mine clearance. The PLAN still has one is use as a cadet harbour training vessel. I believe that at least 2 boats in Europe have materialized-one seeing use as a house boat! and are being restored back to wartime configuration.
The Royal Navy/SBS set up a special ops squadron buzzing about the baltic from 46 untill the late '50's,dropping agents, mapping mine fields and defences, and engauging in general spying-sculking-snatching, using a number of surrendered Sboots re-engined with a pair of 3000hp Napier Deltic diesels, bailed back to a quasi-civil German crewed squadron obstinately charged with EOD and mine clearance. The PLAN still has one is use as a cadet harbour training vessel. I believe that at least 2 boats in Europe have materialized-one seeing use as a house boat! and are being restored back to wartime configuration.
warchild
Charter Member
You may enjoy these ..
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OH, and, theres only 1. S-130.. lots of very sad photos out there too..
.. View attachment 81863
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OH, and, theres only 1. S-130.. lots of very sad photos out there too..
Roll?
For the ELCO PT Boat to 'do' roll on turns all you need to do is set 'Rudder Effect on Roll=2048' and set 'Roll Center= -1'. The MOI's and the 'p factor..' etc entries at end of 'Flight Tuning' section will 'damp' out the effect. Also, the induced and parasite drag will also damp this out. Just my 2 cents worth in hopes of saving you an all night session looking for parameter to adjust/tweak to get 'simple' roll. Of course you can further tune these, along with Roll Stability Factor, Rudder and Rudder Control Factor. All of these parameters are best found in AirEd ver 1.42. In AirEd 1.52 they are named differently so they will be hard to find. Cheers.
Chuck B
Napamule
For the ELCO PT Boat to 'do' roll on turns all you need to do is set 'Rudder Effect on Roll=2048' and set 'Roll Center= -1'. The MOI's and the 'p factor..' etc entries at end of 'Flight Tuning' section will 'damp' out the effect. Also, the induced and parasite drag will also damp this out. Just my 2 cents worth in hopes of saving you an all night session looking for parameter to adjust/tweak to get 'simple' roll. Of course you can further tune these, along with Roll Stability Factor, Rudder and Rudder Control Factor. All of these parameters are best found in AirEd ver 1.42. In AirEd 1.52 they are named differently so they will be hard to find. Cheers.
Chuck B
Napamule
View attachment 81874
Looks good. In sim long enough to see that it goes, eyepoint is a bit behind the wheel house, needs massaging. position with SHIFT/Ctrl+ backspace or enter, L&R by Shift+Ctrl backspace or enter. Looks like we only get the one- the other Sboot, when I got into the hex editor was a MDL2- nothing can be done with it. Still, yesterday there were Zero FSX SBoots.:salute:
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Looks good. In sim long enough to see that it goes, eyepoint is a bit behind the wheel house, needs massaging. position with SHIFT/Ctrl+ backspace or enter, L&R by Shift+Ctrl backspace or enter. Looks like we only get the one- the other Sboot, when I got into the hex editor was a MDL2- nothing can be done with it. Still, yesterday there were Zero FSX SBoots.:salute:
View attachment 81875
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Roll Video
Here is 'proof' of PT Boat showing roll-on-turns. At YouTube, 2:22 length: http://youtu.be/dPdztjF0pnI . Nothing fancy. Just quick clip. I show it going on land as I put 'wheels' on it (which qualifys it for 'Push Back'). When stuck in mud even reverse thrust is not enough, but with Push Back you can slide into the drink from the mud (why not). Cheers.
Chuck B
Napamule
Here is 'proof' of PT Boat showing roll-on-turns. At YouTube, 2:22 length: http://youtu.be/dPdztjF0pnI . Nothing fancy. Just quick clip. I show it going on land as I put 'wheels' on it (which qualifys it for 'Push Back'). When stuck in mud even reverse thrust is not enough, but with Push Back you can slide into the drink from the mud (why not). Cheers.
Chuck B
Napamule
falcon409
SOH-CM-2025
Very nice Chuck!
warchild
Charter Member
Napamule..
Why dont you go ahead and upload yours for folks to use.. Since 'm using the latest version of aired, i cant tell what those entries are. I also have an incredibly strong knee jerk reaction to putting wheels on a boat, even if it IS in flight sim.
OH and, Change the weights in the config.. Base weight on these boats was 56 tons or 112000 pounds and fully loaded at the end of the war they were 61 tons or 122000 pounds..
Sorry.. my bad on that..
Perhaps its the wheels that are allowing you to roll, since once a float is up on step, it will not roll, and this whole boat is a series of floats..
Why dont you go ahead and upload yours for folks to use.. Since 'm using the latest version of aired, i cant tell what those entries are. I also have an incredibly strong knee jerk reaction to putting wheels on a boat, even if it IS in flight sim.
OH and, Change the weights in the config.. Base weight on these boats was 56 tons or 112000 pounds and fully loaded at the end of the war they were 61 tons or 122000 pounds..
Sorry.. my bad on that..
Perhaps its the wheels that are allowing you to roll, since once a float is up on step, it will not roll, and this whole boat is a series of floats..
warchild
Charter Member
S-14??
Napamule, as Pam mentioned, I for one would like to try your changes. I also have the most recent AirEd and not sure where your changes are. That would be much appreciated. The role video looked great showing the role.
Hi Chuck. I added your changes on top of the FDE-RC2 update and I don't get any roll. I used AirEd 1.42. What's wrong? Thanks, Bob.
CurlSnout
Charter Member
No consensus, apparently. I looked at the *.air file initially with AirEd v1.52 but, as napamule indicated, I could not find the relevant entries for editing. So I downloaded AirEd v1.42, looked again, and found the proper spots.
I made 2 of the suggested changes: 1) Rudder Effect on Roll = 2048 and 2) Roll Center = -1 and now my boat DOES roll. At the same time, however, the whole thing seems much less stable now - turning at any kind of speed easily results in getting sucked irreversibly into a vortex.
Probably, again as indicated by napamule, requires additional fine tuning.
Thanks Chuck, for setting us (me?) on the path.
cs
I made 2 of the suggested changes: 1) Rudder Effect on Roll = 2048 and 2) Roll Center = -1 and now my boat DOES roll. At the same time, however, the whole thing seems much less stable now - turning at any kind of speed easily results in getting sucked irreversibly into a vortex.
Probably, again as indicated by napamule, requires additional fine tuning.
Thanks Chuck, for setting us (me?) on the path.
cs
Hi CS. Did you make the changes on top of the FDE-RC2 change? Thanks, Bob.
CurlSnout
Charter Member
Hi Bob. To be honest, at this point I'm not exactly sure, and I think I'm (at least) a little bit confused. I'm thinking I may have missed the "RC2" version. I started with the air file in the original PT boat download, then I saw people talking about an updated FDE, and Pam pointed people to a download that is here in the SOH library. That download = Elco 80 PT/MTB Dynamics Replacement.zip from February 19th, but now I see that what you get from that = the "RC1" version (and to be honest I couldn't see where it differed from what came with the boat to begin with, but I didn't subject it to line-by-line scrutiny).
From where does one get the "RC2" file?
One thing I do NOT have running right now are any of the effects or effects/textures that came with the boat - I'm still going back-and-forth on what I want to include and what I want to leave out. When I tested napamule's edits (the 2 changes I cited above) I did not have any of the effects active.
An observation: My boat seems to roll more easily to the left than to the right. And my comment about adding the roll and then getting sucked into an uncontrollable vortex is the exception rather than the rule; pretty sure I just need to be more mindful (and less reckless).
Not sure if any of that helps answer your question (?).
cs
From where does one get the "RC2" file?
One thing I do NOT have running right now are any of the effects or effects/textures that came with the boat - I'm still going back-and-forth on what I want to include and what I want to leave out. When I tested napamule's edits (the 2 changes I cited above) I did not have any of the effects active.
An observation: My boat seems to roll more easily to the left than to the right. And my comment about adding the roll and then getting sucked into an uncontrollable vortex is the exception rather than the rule; pretty sure I just need to be more mindful (and less reckless).
Not sure if any of that helps answer your question (?).
cs