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  • Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.

    Post 16 Update

    Post 17 Warning

ELCO PTboat, pilotable, FREE

Committe

Mods to FDEs by committee (ha). Will it work? Well only if we all are on the same page, like they say. I used the RC2 cfg (the air file seemed to be the same). Then I added changes to air using AirEd 1.42. Those 2 changes were the ONLY change(s) I made to the cfg and/or the air.

I then removed the wheels (gear) to see if that made any difference. It did not. So the ability to induce 'roll' more likely will depends on your controller's sensitivity settings and (alas) proper joy/yoke alignment (sorry). There is no 'left' or 'right' 'pull' to this. It ALL depends on ONLY how much you twist your joy (ie: RUDDER) and the 'roll' is independent of other (related?) parameter values.

I did redo the original cnt pts. (WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!-see pics). I also did other edits. But I am still working on cfg and air so any upload won't happen today (real life-chores-etc). Probably tomorrow around 4 pm. OK? OK!
Chuck B
Napamule
Edit: The only reason I add wheels to a boat is to make it 'eligible' for 'Push Back'. You don't have to drive it on land. And yes, you have to reduce speed before cranking in a 360 turn (dah). Real is real. Mostly if you don't use 100% rudder it will behave. Take it easy, unless you are being shot at and then 'Full Speed Ahead-Dann the Turpedos!' (hehe).
 
Hi cs. The FDE-RC2 update is in a previous post where you can click on the link and download it. I am confused too. I guess the link in your message is the "RC1 version". Bob.
 
So anyway, heres the reality.. FSX does not like to roll floats. And since boats are built around floats, it gets real squirelly when you try to make them roll.. Just give me some time.. Contrary to popular belief, just cuz something isnt in the SDK doesnt mean it doesnt exist. you just gotta find it.. I'll be working on it, especially with the schnellboot being narrower than a PT and a lot more roll-y.. :)..

Oh and napamule.. i hear ya on the pushback.. bear with me.. these boats do have reverse, but implementing it has been tricky due to having to use a constant speed prop to get reverse.. No one wants to listen to a 30000 rpm allison.. :)..
 
warchild said:
So anyway, heres the reality.. FSX does not like to roll floats. And since boats are built around floats, it gets real squirelly when you try to make them roll.. Just give me some time.. Contrary to popular belief, just cuz something isnt in the SDK doesnt mean it doesnt exist. you just gotta find it.. I'll be working on it, especially with the schnellboot being narrower than a PT and a lot more roll-y.. :)..

Oh and napamule.. i hear ya on the pushback.. bear with me.. these boats do have reverse, but implementing it has been tricky due to having to use a constant speed prop to get reverse.. No one wants to listen to a 30000 rpm allison.. :)..
Click to expand...

Hi. If the prop RPM is really 30,000 rpm then the aircraft.cfg is wrong. It says 2,400 rpm max. If the 30,000 rpm is correct that's why the RPM panel gauge is maxed out at over 10,000 rpm. It reads prop speed and not engine rpm. The spec at a historical pt boat site says 2,400 RPM is the max at the engine. Bob.
 
familton said:
Hi. If the prop RPM is really 30,000 rpm then the aircraft.cfg is wrong. It says 2,400 rpm max. If the 30,000 rpm is correct that's why the RPM panel gauge is maxed out at over 10,000 rpm. It reads prop speed and not engine rpm. The spec at a historical pt boat site says 2,400 RPM is the max at the engine. Bob.
Click to expand...

Yes bob, the config is wrong. may i please ask you to read this below and not think in terms of black and white..
Base RPM on the PT boat is 2400 rpm. Thats where that ends ( in the model )., Now it gets complex.. The real Pt boat uses two fixed pitch 28.3" per revolution propellers, and One 30.3"per revolution propeller. all of these are fixed..
1. FSX allows only one size of propeller.

The engines on a PT have a reversing gear allowing you to slow the boat down and back it up.

2. FSX does not allow reversing gears on its engines.

So at this point we got a model in fsx that goes straight real good but little else..

That presents a problem on a boat where reversing is such a major part of the boat. So what FSX DOES allow, is reversing props, provided you use their constant speed props.

With a constant speed prop, the prop is always turning at a fixed pre defined rpm. When you move the throttle with a constant speed prop you are not changing the amount of fuel to the engines, your changing the pitch of the prop. This holds true with boats as it does with planes.
The controlling entry in the config file that oversees this is
min_gov_rpm=
if that entry is too low, you can move forward, and even slow down which is what you have right now in the PT. Make it higher and you can reverse, BUT, as you make that higher, the rpm of the prop increases as well.

This is the goliath i am working with, not only on the PT but on a schnellboot as well.. there is no way to make the boat reversable without using constant speed props, and no way to make constant speed props effective in reverse unless the rpm is high enough.

There are certain things i will not compromise in my FDEs. The boat uses a 12 cylinder 2000 HP Packard engine. You wont find that in any other boat thats out there. please, go ahead and look. They all use Jet engines. Every last damned single one of them. The PT uses a direct drive 1:1 ratio propeller. I will not fiddle with that either. Every other boat is using reductions of 15 - 30:1 please check it out..
The constant speed gear is not attached to either the engine or the reversing gear. its a part of the prop and is located on most engines just behind and inside the hub of the prop itself. Thats your culprit. And there is no way around it if the rest of the boat is going to work properly. that oprop will always read 9000 rpm, unless we change min_gov_rpm=. Thats all there is too it..
 
If you find that the boats need waterline position, pitch, or model zero point need moved, just shout,or go ahead and make whatever changes you need with MDLX. Both boats manipulate easily with MDLX. I think the Elco boat is about bang on with the positions of the DS boat that Pam wrote the FDE around, as the eye points lined up perfectly. I guessed at the SBoots zero point.
 
lazarus said:
If you find that the boats need waterline position, pitch, or model zero point need moved, just shout,or go ahead and make whatever changes you need with MDLX. Both boats manipulate easily with MDLX. I think the Elco boat is about bang on with the positions of the DS boat that Pam wrote the FDE around, as the eye points lined up perfectly. I guessed at the SBoots zero point.
Click to expand...


Been having a "jolly good time" for the last 200 or so waking hours. the PT was a barn raising party in comparison to the schnellboot. The PT was small enough and light enough that the fsx engine could handle almost anything you threw at it on that boat. its a great boat to learn on.. the schnellboot isnt so simple.. change a single value in the contacts area and it has and will fly off into space.. literally..
the schnellboot is a 200000 pound beast in comparison to the pt being 146000 pounds, not to mention its 114 feet in length as compared to the elco 80 foot. FSX cannot handle the schnellboot all on its own, and it has quickly become the most sophisticated, demanding spoiled rotten brat i have ever produced outside of the su-37 ( which i know you havent seen yet.. Patience :) its worth it ). Everything came into play. Contacts, thrust, drag, even lift and ground effects had to all be adjusted and calibrated. Since fsx wont pull 100 tonnes up on step on its own like it does with the PT, I had to use lift to do it, which provided for a much cleaner lift anyway.. She will turn on a dime at 4 knots, but high speed she likes a little more room.. She's a greyhound not a quarter horse. A sophisticate, not a cowboy.. Guess thats the main difference between european and american designs.. We like our cowboys.. :)
View attachment 82032

View attachment 82033

View attachment 82034

And this is what happens when you change some god awful oddball part of the contacts ( like landing gear compression ratio )..


View attachment 82035
 
Oh and "Why two Schnellboots?"

For me its because there were three distinct designs of schnellboot. the original S-1 which was built literally on the designs of a 1934 fast yacht, Thw S-14 class which covered Boats S-14 through S-24 and the final S-34 design which covered between S-34 and S-100. each has a distinctly different control room/bridge. Each also has a distinctly different forecastle design.. the S-14 class was a wet boat with its tubes mounted on the foredeck . The S-34 saw the fordeck raised and became a very nice dry boat. the S-130 saw that foredeck extended over the tubes, but theres so little difference between it and the S-100 otherwise its hardly worth fussing with.. So lazarus has given us an S-14 class and i'm working on an S-100 class.. two very distinctly different boats..:).
 
Love the design of the S-100 (armored wheelhouse)!

For those who may be interested (and haven't already seen this), bottom of this page provides a visual reference to the various Schnellboot class types (with the qualification that details may be in error):

http://www.prinzeugen.com/Plans.htm

Hi-Ho,

cs
 
CurlSnout said:
Love the design of the S-100 (armored wheelhouse)!

For those who may be interested (and haven't already seen this), bottom of this page provides a visual reference to the various Schnellboot class types (with the qualification that details may be in error):

http://www.prinzeugen.com/Plans.htm

Hi-Ho,

cs
Click to expand...

More likely MY details are in error.. my old thinker dont work so great any more..

now, what that page doesnt show is that in the cockpit, theres a second wheel. its constructed identically to a wheel used on an artillery piece for changing azimuth. about a foot wide with a deadmans knob on it.. Had to watch the videos on schnellboots three times before i caught the one second where the captain of the boat is actually turning it to turn the boat.. Snce the bridge is also where the torpedo's are lined up from using a type of ranger instrument i havent found yet, it kinda makes sense so as to be able to fine adjust the boats course to put the torpedo's where you need them.
 
I rarely write on this forum, but I couldn't stop thinking about the quote below from flight model creator.
When you move the throttle with a constant speed prop you are not changing the amount of fuel to the engines, your changing the pitch of the prop. This holds true with boats as it does with planes.
Click to expand...
That is not how it works. The throttle changes the amount of fuel-air mixture to the engines (usually by the means of operating butterfly valve in naturally aspirated carburettor engines), irregardless of whether the plane has constant speed propeller or not. It's the governor that changes the pitch of blades to hold desired RPM. If the throttle only changed pitch without change in engine's power, RPM would change (as thrust and drag produced by propeller would change).
Very interesting yet easy to comprehend read on this subject:
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182081-1.html
http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182082-1.html
 
yes, i'm afraid your absolutely correct.. Changingthe throttle changes the manifold pressure not the pitch of thenprops.. the prop rpm remains at a given rate regardless of manifold pressure and the pitch is controled by the prop pitch lever.. my apologies..
Pam
 
warchild said:
Been having a "jolly good time" for the last 200 or so waking hours. the PT was a barn raising party in comparison to the schnellboot. The PT was small enough and light enough that the fsx engine could handle almost anything you threw at it on that boat. its a great boat to learn on.. the schnellboot isnt so simple.. change a single value in the contacts area and it has and will fly off into space.. literally..
the schnellboot is a 200000 pound beast in comparison to the pt being 146000 pounds, not to mention its 114 feet in length as compared to the elco 80 foot. FSX cannot handle the schnellboot all on its own, and it has quickly become the most sophisticated, demanding spoiled rotten brat i have ever produced outside of the su-37 ( which i know you havent seen yet.. Patience :) its worth it ). Everything came into play. Contacts, thrust, drag, even lift and ground effects had to all be adjusted and calibrated. Since fsx wont pull 100 tonnes up on step on its own like it does with the PT, I had to use lift to do it, which provided for a much cleaner lift anyway.. She will turn on a dime at 4 knots, but high speed she likes a little more room.. She's a greyhound not a quarter horse. A sophisticate, not a cowboy.. Guess thats the main difference between european and american designs.. We like our cowboys.. :)
View attachment 82032

View attachment 82033

View attachment 82034

And this is what happens when you change some god awful oddball part of the contacts ( like landing gear compression ratio )..


View attachment 82035
Click to expand...

Pam, gotta say that last pic in the clouds looks pretty cool....kind of John Carter-ish.....
 
warchild said:
....now, what that page doesnt show is that in the cockpit, theres a second wheel. its constructed identically to a wheel used on an artillery piece for changing azimuth. about a foot wide with a deadmans knob on it.. Had to watch the videos on schnellboots three times before i caught the one second where the captain of the boat is actually turning it to turn the boat.. Snce the bridge is also where the torpedo's are lined up from using a type of ranger instrument i havent found yet, it kinda makes sense so as to be able to fine adjust the boats course to put the torpedo's where you need them.
Click to expand...

Perhaps this page does (?) show the second wheel to which you make reference:

http://www.military-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3761
 
warchild said:
CS.. Dont take this the wrong way, but i could hug you..
Click to expand...

Hi Pam,

I'm not sure if the simple act of passing along a URL qualifies me as hug-worthy, but I'm very happy if that helps you out. Fact is, my motives are purely selfish - I'm anxious to see what you are conjuring over there on the other side of the Cascades.

The work that the other fellow was doing (shown in the link above) is AMAZING. So far I've been unable to trace that project any further.

Looking forward to future work-in-progress reports regarding your S-Boot.

cs
 
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