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  • Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.

    Post 16 Update

    Post 17 Warning

ELCO PTboat, pilotable, FREE

Welll, what i and paul are doing is attempting to make as accurate as p9ossible a flight/float model for the S-100 series schnellboots. Craig, from Classic Wings is working on the 3D model as he can ( sadly, unlike me he has a real life :;lol:: ) but the bottom line is, with all the beauty pics and videos of these boats out there, theres very little data relating to detail. That site, and that persons work is a dream. I know craig will be able to make extremely good use of it. Also, having seen the inside of this boat, while Craig is working on the stuff that is difficult ( anything not flat and smooth ) I'll be building the interior of the boat. Its my wish to bring you an extremely accurate model to enjoy..
to be honest, I may never have found that site. i wouldnt have thought to look there, especially after doing a search for blueprints and having only one page turn up.. So yeah.. its pretty special :)
 
Since the *.cfg file for the Lazarus/Usio S-15 Schnellboot was adopted from the ELCO PT boat, the lights are not proper - as seen in the first image below. I fussed around for a while (longer than is probably necessary, but the only approach I know for lights in FSX is the empirical/trial-and-error approach), and have redone the [LIGHTS] section to render a better fit for the S-15 Schnellboot - as seen in the second image below.

I made the following edits:

1) Aligned the main/top mast light to be proper for the signal mast
2) Created 3 lights for the physical (but un-lit until now) lamps on the aft side of the signal mast
3) Re-positioned the red/green navigation lights to the front of the wheelhouse roof
4) Created a center stern light

In additon, I removed the references to vc/cabin lights, as I don't see that they are used in this model.

Here is the edited [LIGHTS] section of the *.cfg file to reflect the above changes, if anyone wants to incorporate them:

[LIGHTS]
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit, 5=landing, 6=taxi, 7=recognition, 8=wing, 9=logo, 10=cabin

light.0=3, 12.48, -0.1, 21.10, fx_navwhih
light.1=3, 21.44, 4.8, 11.60, fx_navgre
light.2=3, 21.44, -4.9, 11.60, fx_navred
light.3=3, 10.44, 0.0, 19.30, fx_navwhih
light.4=3, 10.44, 0.0, 17.10, fx_navwhih
light.5=3, 10.44, 0.0, 15.04, fx_navwhih
light.6=3, -55.59, 0.1, 8.81, fx_navwhih

If anyone can offer corrections to my choices for placement and/or colors (in my lookings, I came upon someone/somewhere speculating that the lamps on the aft side of the signal mast might be red?), that would be great.

Up and Away,

cs
 
hang onto those light settings. i'm adapting the fde from the S-100 to it ( lets face it, all schnellboats had a lot in common ) so theyre going to be off again. Sorry.. I'm also looking for a suitable sound set for the beasty.
hard to believe it had so much freeboard on it.. that thing sits higher than a hippi on a saturday night.. Sure is pretty though. Really shows off post wwi design ethics..
 
No, sorry. I did not do much at all with the Sboot other than make sure it floated and ran, You all seem to have this one firmly by the face. Good stuff going on. The armored S Boot WIP looks nice.
I did get a 'Eboat' kill, shifting hats here, with the trusty Swordfish. That had to be embarassing. Bit like a fighter jock being shot down by a helicopter, or being covered up by the cat...

View attachment 82063
 
thats all right. we all get pie in the face from time to time :;lol:;yeahhh, i's really like to make the S-100 nice.. Will you be animating the wheel or screws??

OK.. i'm using the sound set i found for the S-100. it isnt the best, but its a start..
on my boat the lights settled beautifully into a nice civilian configuration. didnt look a thing like the pics above, but it did look nice ::lol:;.. I've since fixed them in my fde so thats good to go
 
its my belief that that is the effect itself. it triggers when you start the engines. To change it you would have to change the [smoke systems] entries in the aircraft.cfg file..
Pam
 
I grabbed this when it was first offered, but, didn't have time to play with it until now. Thanks to Pam for the FDE. Darn good start! :salute:
Working on my own, new FSX only *.air, and tweaked aircraft.cfg to my liking. Yes, with "Roll" included. Having lots of fun! 2D Panel and gauges are WIP.
View attachment 82095

I didn't install the included effects, or the later offerings yet. I removed all effect references in the aircraft.cfg, but, some just won't go away.
I read in the 1st post where lazarus stated: "...coded effects, some default, some custom..."
Is there a way to eliminate them? Or, point them to a dummy effect? Thanks, Don
 
Hi Don. Nice panel. I hope at the end of this, we can all pull the different bits together as a single package. Its turned into quite the group project.
For a model with no effects, copy the interior model,and re name it the same as the exterior,r 'normal' model, and replace the exterior.The interior model is identical, but has no effects attached. Same center, eyepoint and height.
 
Con

Quote: 'I think the Elco boat is about bang on with the positions of the DS boat that Pam wrote the FDE around, as the eye points lined up perfectly. I guessed at the SBoots...'.

BEWARE OF THE IDES OF MARCH (hehe). The ELCO PT BOAT and the SBoots's Cnt Pts are IDENTICAL. Usio is pulling our leg? The boat are not identical, so how come? I mean, the cnt pts are so RADICAL I don't even understand the 'logic'. I am guessing FSX will 'iron out' the 'diffeences' and 'allows' it to float (although I don't see the 'how' or 'why' this is so). The compression entries is the mystery. Then there is line 'max number of points-8' yet he has tons of 'type2' (scrapes-WHICH YOU DON'T EVEN NEED for a boat!!!) that go to 18 (when I added wheels). A pic in prior post shows position of floats (complete wrong). So THAT is why the mods of air to produce 'roll' do not work 'right' (instablility)? It should all 'fit' together. These FDEs don't. So must make new ones. Right? Right!

Yes, there is further tweaks called for. That would be to re-do the cnt pts to fit the boat (#1). Then there is the (Flight Tuning) section with the 'p factor' etc entries that very well may be there to 'smooth' the turns, but would best be left for use with a helicopter and not a PT Boat (that turns on water).

And the effects have to be 'disabled' and not just removed. For 'spray=fx_spray' try 'spray=fs_spray.boo'. This disables effect. Leave the line out and FSX will use the DEFAULT effect. And for the SMOKE you must have the particular effect called in your EFFECT folder. Otherwise you do not get smoke. (Post pic shows 'dirt spray' for 'engine smoke' which is totally wrong (sorry)). The smoke for FS9 is different from FSX smoke POSITIONS. iE:
[SMOKESYSTEM]
//------------------------------------
// FS9: U/D, F/B, L/R
//ie: vert, lon, lat
//-----------------------------------
// FSX: F/B, L/R, U/D:
//ie: lon, lat, vert
//-----------------------------------

We all know (?) what 'type 5' (water rudder) cnt pts do for turning amphibs/ships/boats (makes it really squirley in FSX). I hope NO ONE suggest using those type cnt pts (pray). So there you are. What a mess. But it can be fixed. I made a 'Save' mistake and lost my 'good' roll air edits and wound up with boat that rolls (flips) at the slightest use of rudder. Give me another day (or 2). I'LL BE BAAACKK.
Chuck B
Napamule
 
I guessed at the Sboats running waterline, pitch and center in the model so that it would drop into Pams PT FDE and run with out re writing the entire FDE. It gives a fast way to plop it into the sim without lots of fiddling.The FDE is identical. Did not change anything in the FDE, just coppied it out of the PT boat folder. It seems to ride a bit high at rest, but looked not too bad running. That is why the contact points et al are identical.
 
Your right napamule, they arent the same. not in a long shot.. fortunately ( in my early morning not so humble opinion ) there are people like you and Familton out there who desire exactitude.. And yes, i just woke up again so bear with me.. have coffee but no sugar this morning.. hate coffee without sugar ::sigh::

I have a WIP that i'm willing to upload for you folks for the S-100 that i've adapted to the S-15. I think ( hope ) you'll like it, but its only a WIP. Theres a long way to go on it.. You'll still need to fiddle with the effects on it.. Sorry.

now lets talk about roll for a moment..

We all want roll on the boat. I personally want an exact amount of roll for a given speed/turn rate. But, heres the problem as i understand it so far..
1. boats float because of floats. ( but i may have an idea there..)
2. floats are a type of landing gear. They can even have a turn radius ( which is how the boat turns )
3. Fuselages roll, not landing gear. landing gear are fixed in their relation to the fuselage/hull.
4. If we make a normal flight model with all the parts and cg where they belong, the boat will never roll.
5. if we place the flats/gear inside the fuselage/hull, the boat will become instantly unstable and roll over on its back.
6. if we place the gear/floats inside the fuselage/hull, and drop the cg low enough below the boat, then we might find stability but, will it roll??
7. If we eliminate the gear/floats and simply drop the cg low enough will the boat be stable?? Will it roll?? Can it be turned left and right??

there are three things that do not exist in fsx.. a fuselage, Air, or water. These are all illusions as the mathematical construct used for the various pieces i just described are programmed as types of planes ( as in 2D plane) At some point, in creating flight models, that fact becomes glaringly apparent. So, IF we remove the landing gear can we turn the boat? Yes, there is a rudder, but its based on aircraft rudders which are notorious for being ineffective at low speed ( or real planes would never need nose wheel steering ). it wont turn the boat without a major overhaul of the air file ( which in the end, may be our only choice ). So at the moment, we appear to be stuck using floats/landing gear to turn the boat, but appearances may sometimes be deceiving..

SO, Ive defined the absolutes above. Those are the exact limitations facing us in creating a flight model for this beast, BUT, they also define (by their absence ) the opportunities for creating something new and wonderful..
I'll put the S-15 FDE together and upload it today. I apologize for moving the position lights to the light boxes on the railings, but i used to live on boats and having lights where they dont belong, no matter how pretty, always irked me to no end.
 
lazarus said:
I guessed at the Sboats running waterline, pitch and center in the model so that it would drop into Pams PT FDE and run with out re writing the entire FDE. It gives a fast way to plop it into the sim without lots of fiddling.The FDE is identical. Did not change anything in the FDE, just coppied it out of the PT boat folder. It seems to ride a bit high at rest, but looked not too bad running. That is why the contact points et al are identical.
Click to expand...

It still runs high. it runs at the waterline, where it should. The S-14 series ( including the S-15 ) were post WW1 boats and were designed with that same edwardian type design philosophy that pre and during war designs were created with. i.e. higher sides ( more freeboard ). it wasnt untill S-38 that they reduced the amount of freeboard on these boats to give them that classic shark like profile in the water..
You did fine.. :)
But i'll stll upload this completely new fde :)..

A warning to all who fiddle with FDE's.. i GUARANTEE that if you change things in the contacts entries, the boat WILL fly into space ( sometimes amusingly, sometimes not so amusingly ), SO PLEASE make a backup of your config files before you make any changes. This is an entirely new FDE. Except for the fact that i used the pt FDE as the original basis to create this one on there is no relationship between them. Please treat it as such..
 
lazarus said:
Hmm. Can a float point have compression and rate defined?
Click to expand...

:salute:

Whyyyyyy YES!!.. it can :) :) :)

Let me rush this through and upload it so you can play :) :) :) will look forward to see what you can do with it, and hear your experiences.. :)..
 
GOT IT!!!. Lazarus. your a genius.. Copy the two sections below into your aircraft.cfg file overwring the existing sections, BUT only IF youve downloaded and installed the S-15 FDE i just uploaded above.. otherwise, forget it.. you'll be in space ( i guarantee ).


[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight =226000
empty_weight=186000
reference_datum_position=0.0, 0.0, 0.0
empty_weight_CG_position= 0.0,0.0,2.35
max_number_of_stations = 5

station_load.0 = 200, -38.475, -2.4, 10.793
station_load.1 = 200, -38.475, 2.4, 10.793

empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 12540000
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 6800000
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 14500000
empty_weight_coupled_MOI = 2048.0


CG_forward_limit= 0.0
CG_aft_limit= -0.00



_________________________


[contact_points]
;/0 Class
;/1 Longitudinal Position (feet)
;/2 Lateral Position (feet)
;/3 Vertical Position (feet)
;/4 Impact Damage Threshold (Feet Per Minute)
;/5 Brake Map (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)
;/6 Wheel Radius (feet)
;/7 Steer Angle (degrees)
;/8 Static Compression (feet) (0 if rigid)
;/9 Max/Static Compression Ratio
;/10 Damping Ratio / Water Rudder Effectiveness (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped) / 1.0 = normal
;/11 Extension Time (seconds)
;/12 Retraction Time (seconds)
;/13 Sound Type
;/14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)
;/15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)

// 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
point.0=4, 49.0, -1.850, -3.825, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 60.0, 2.2, 20.0, 3.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.1=4, 49.0, 1.850, -3.825, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 60.0, 2.2, 20.0, 3.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.2=4, -57.0, -8.350, -3.825, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 60.0, 2.2, 20.0, 3.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.3=4, -57.0, 8.350, -3.825, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 60.0, 2.2, 20.0, 3.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.4=2, 53.365, -0.5, -1.698, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.5=2, 53.365, 0.5, -1.698, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.6=2, -30.365, -7.37, -1.698, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.7=2, -30.365, 7.37, -1.698, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.8=5, 53.235, -2.32, -3.932, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 60.0, 0.0, 0.0, 20.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
point.9=5, 53.235, 2.32, -3.932, 9600, 0.0, 0.0, 60.0, 0.0, 0.0, 20.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0

max_number_of_points=8

static_pitch= 0.000
static_cg_height= 2.349
gear_system_type=1


________________________

Now, some of you arent going to like the roll. after airplanes it seems weird, but, its behaving correctly. previous images ive posted of ships rolling show this to be true. is it accurate ( in relation to degrees per radii per km/h?? ) no idea yet.. ths is a rough..
enjoy
pam


EDIT:: But it really messes with dead slow maneuvering.. cant get it below ten knots again without stopping now..
 
I'll be trying those out a bit latter. Baking dog cookies ,and the hounds will not let anything else happen in the house untill thats done! I'd never thought of float points as landing gear before reading your explanation, allways just defined the vertical and logitudinal position and left a bunch of zeros in the rest of the definitions. Score another one for the insomniacs! If any one wants dumb ideas, I'm your boy.
 
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