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Flying Backwards in Helicopters - Speed Display?

R

razor61

Guest
Hi,

Is it possible to have the information display (Shift Z) to show mph in backwards motion?
Currently when flying helicopters it only shows the speed in forward motion but if you require to fly backwards it only shows "0" as the speed.

Thanks
 
I do not think so, in fact on the real thing (at least through the pitot-static system) you will not get anything either. The pitot tube (that gives IAS) is pointed forward.

If you are flying backwards any more than a slow walk, you will be in trouble!
 
The GPS should give you your ground speed no matter which way you're going.
I've used it in real life on check test flights to make sure we could get 30kts left, right and backwards, that or TANS but that's a Dopplar nav computer something FSX doesn't do.
 
Many thanks for the replies, never thought of using a GPS for doing this.

thanks
 
We didn't have GPS in the eighties, skippy! I should have guessed that you could use it for that nowadays, our old doppler nav was not up to much either then!
 
I think you're still supposed to use the Doppler readout according to the instruction manual, but I find the GPS more reliable, or at least it reads 30kts sooner which is nice when you're going backwards across the airfield!
 
I guess I'll show my ignorance and ask this since no one else has. . .in what instance would you need to fly backwards and beyond that. . .backwards, so fast that you'd need to have a speed readout? lol.
 
I guess I'll show my ignorance and ask this since no one else has. . .in what instance would you need to fly backwards and beyond that. . .backwards, so fast that you'd need to have a speed readout? lol.

Well, for me, I think a backwards ASI would be useful when hovering/landing. FS helicopters, for some reason, like to fly backwards when attempting to over. I often have a hard time "sensing" this backwards movement until it's grown to dangerous proportions. I think some sort of "HUD style" gauge displaying movement direction and speed would be useful for FSX helo operations.
 
Gotcha, I had envisioned some reason that someone might need to fly 50 or 60kts backwards, lol. I would think that the slight backwards speed while landing or hovering wouldn't even be enough to register.:salute:
 
Okaaaaaaaaay.
I'm going to have to comment now.
I just can't stay silent any longer. :icon_lol:

Let's start with a quote from the training material over at HC so you understand why I'm commenting:

"
Managing Aft movement in the hover will be a little more challenging and dangerous. Essentially, backward movement is achieved the same way that forward movement is, but a couple factors keep it from being as simple, or safe. This first is that your helicopter does NOT want to fly backwards, every principle of its design make it want to fly forward. The second important factor in backward movement is the fact that you have greatly decreased visibility, increasing the chance that you will strike ground objects, and or lose control of the aircraft.

Practice moving backwards for short distances in the hover by lifting your nose slight above the horizon until you begin to see the ground move below you just slightly. You must keep your velocity from building too high, or you will crash, or be violently flipped around. As always, using your anti-torque and collective inputs to maintain your hover altitude and heading will be very important. You do not want to lose altitude while moving backwards and push your tail into the ground. This will most certainly cause the destruction of you and your aircraft. The key to successful backwards movement, will be slow controlled flight, and lot of practice in safe conditions.

Backwards movement is not a maneuver that is very practical, it will rarely be used in a useful way, but is one of many skills that can come in handy when called for. Under most circumstances, instead of flying backwards, you would simply turn around in the hover and/or re-approach your maneuver all together.
(Most important part ---->) You should never land backwards or with backwards movement, as this will certainly cause loss of control and/or aircraft and passenger damage."

In short, there is no need to fly backwards fast enough that you need to know how fast you are going.
Period.
There is no need to have a gauge.
You should be judging your ground speed by sight, not instruments.
Using two reference points and peripheral vision.
Watching the ground move.

If you are going faster than normal taxi speed, it's too fast.
Best advice I give often here, learn to transition to and hold a hover before landing.
That is the greatest skill you can develop for helicopter piloting, ever. (Yes even in sim)

Land/hover pointing directly into the wind.
If you miss your landing spot, continue on until you can get into the hover.
Then slowly turn in place, and/or circle back to the landing spot.
It's like fixed wing operations in that regard, you over shoot the runway, you don't get to back up the plane, right?
You go around and try it again. ;)

Only time I ever fly backwards is if I am trying to land on the smallest remote landing pads at the firetowers in the Orbx PNW scenery.
(EDIT: Okay slight fib. I've been known to take the Bo-105 out for a little "Red Bull" action from time to time...)
Then it's to make a small adjustment, over the pad while hovering.
And I always, always, make sure I have slight forward momentum when touching down.

Haha, sorry, I had to get that off my chest.
Please understand, I'm a purist. :icon_lol:
 
Well, for me, I think a backwards ASI would be useful when hovering/landing. FS helicopters, for some reason, like to fly backwards when attempting to over. I often have a hard time "sensing" this backwards movement until it's grown to dangerous proportions. I think some sort of "HUD style" gauge displaying movement direction and speed would be useful for FSX helo operations.

Even going forwards the ASI doesn't register much below 20 kts, trying to read airspeed while hovering is counter-productive, peripheral vision provides the best cues (which is very limited on a single screen display). Even going to some degree sideways means that the pitot isn't getting pressurized sufficiently, so underspeed is registered there too. Also air instruments suffer from lag which would cause PIO as you chase the needle. Add to that you're trying to move relative to the land and the ASI is showing Airspeed i.e. Aircraft movement relative to the wind, it would show a 5 kts forward speed when flying backwards at 15 kts in a 20 kts headwind. Ouch!

Groundspeed via GPS/INS/Doppler is what you'd need for a display.
 
I guess I'll show my ignorance and ask this since no one else has. . .in what instance would you need to fly backwards and beyond that. . .backwards, so fast that you'd need to have a speed readout? lol.

When we do it as part of the check test flight, as I understand it, it's to check control authority i.e. that everything is set up to give sufficient movement of the disc in all directions.
 
Flying/landing a helicopter is about using visual cues, not displays or instruments.
Keep your eyes outside of the cockpit.
It helps by having the zoom set at about .70 or less, you gain a bit of peripheral vision in sim. :wavey:
 
Thanks Dain, your lengthy answer above just qualifies what I had banging around in my head about the original question. . .Why? lol. I couldn't figure out why anyone would need a gauge to tell how fast they were going backwards in a heli, lol. . . .bottom line is. . .if you're watching a gauge, you're missing the important stuff, which is outside, lol.:salute:
 
I can think of a coupla `military` reasons why one might need to go back faster than walking pace.
But outside of that and the airshow circuit the only time I've seen a helo flying backwards at more than a snails pace was to lift from a position in front of a hangar when it wasn't safe to turn, and then the observer was hangin` his arse out of the main door watching the tail, and once in a narrow side street in Croydon when one of the London Air Ambulances had to land close to a casualty who'd jumped off a multi-storey car park and stupidly failed to kill herself, where the road was so narrow they couldn't turn round, even in a MD900 NOTAR, there were overhanging trees and wires preventing a vertical lift straight up and they had to back out UNDER the overhang of the street lights.

Probably the most precise helo flying I've ever seen, certainly on a par with the precision flying competitions I used to go and watch.:salute:
 
Taking off backwards is actually pretty sensible on a rooftop landing pad in a built up area, that way if you suffer an engine failure you can 'just' put it back on the roof.
Backwards flight, or hovering with a strong tailwind can be easier than working with a sidewind from the wrong side which puts the tail rotor into vortex ring state (settling with power for the Americans) and you lose any authority. FSX doesn't simulate that, although the Dodo Sim Bell 206 might I'll have to take it up for a spin later!
 
Okay.

Well, the advice I was taught was to avoid tailwinds and out of ground effect hovers when maneuvering below 20kts, the yellow area on a helicopter airspeed gauge, to avoid LTE.

I have found the information on this page about Loss of Tail Rotor Effectiveness (LTE) to be pretty good:
http://www.dynamicflight.com/aerodynamics/loss_tail_eff/

I'm not sure about the tail rotor vortex ring with the Dodo, I've never experienced it.
I have encountered LTE with the Dodo.
 
Well, the advice I was taught was to avoid tailwinds and out of ground effect hovers when maneuvering below 20kts, the yellow area on a helicopter airspeed gauge, to avoid LTE.

That's pretty much advice to live by, in training though we did sorties where we'd deliberately experience LTE so we'd recognise it and be able to cope. We also did down wind circuits which are pretty interesting...
 
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