FM and DM issues

B

Bonestorm

Guest
Anyone else experiencing this?
Upon taking a hit, the merest few bullets, it always seems to knock out ailerons nearly completely; control can only be maintained by brutal use of rudder, to 'throw' the plane round and generate some secondary roll that way :( . Is it the FM / DM, or just me being a sore loser:faint:?
Is it a CFS3 limitation, or can it be changed?

Roll does seem very ponderous in all the rotaries btw, it seemed sharper in RB3D, FE, the FSX DR1 model, WoH series, FC.

Is their a way to adjust it in Airwrench to suit personal taste; all my attempts with it so far just make the plane 'unavailable'...?

Loving the game, just wanting to tweak it to my taste ( like add more sugar to coffee eh? )

I feel unable to play in DiD settings with the current FM roll-rates :(
 
I think, in general terms, that if your plane has been hit sufficiently to reduce it's roll-rate it's time to run and get down on the ground asap. It's the sim's way of telling you "Your plane has taken critical damage".

Personally I'd prefer to see a gaping hole in my wing and know that it's complete structural failure was only a couple of hard turns away, but I guess the engine can't model that.
 
Yeah as with any sim eventually it always comes down to FM DM etc and I guess we are there now....got there in P1 and P2 and now P3 - sure nothing has changed in that regard..:wiggle:

There will again be long lengthy debates re FM DM etc I am sure... and many 'experts' will be adding their bit.

What we do as Devs will be to monitor and discern whether changes are required and how/when ...

Cheers

WM
 
Ailerons in early designs are relatively poor, use rudder in most WW1 bi-planes to aid roll is essential as the design of ailerons tend to cause other issues when trying to roll. Try a different craft some are much better than others. Try the DVII for example. We did extensive testing on the performance and feel of the craft, and did not fly other sims to see what they thought ;) but went on data and pilot reports and real feedback.

Watch your angle of attack, and speeds, too fast or acute angles and you loose authority or cause other issues too as a general rule.

DM has small specific separate areas for ailerons, and small thin damageboxes even for cabling, but if you are being peppered across wings then likely they will be hit or cables etc. Also yes we don't have big wing holes etc but you do see some damage depending on where and how bad. So sometimes that could be your problem.
 
Bonestorm said:
Anyone else experiencing this?
Upon taking a hit, the merest few bullets, it always seems to knock out ailerons nearly completely; control can only be maintained by brutal use of rudder, to 'throw' the plane round and generate some secondary roll that way :( . Is it the FM / DM, or just me being a sore loser:faint:?
Is it a CFS3 limitation, or can it be changed?



I feel unable to play in DiD settings with the current FM roll-rates :(
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I agree with what you say re the bullets etc. I think Winder has changed it ,ie. made it scaleable in the next patch, if I have understood his post re this properly.

And I would like to see some planes roll better.

You know, there have been several points made by players since OFF 3 came out - not that long ago - and already a lot of these issues have been addressed. In patches and forthcoming patches.
I haven't seen such support from a sim developer to this extent and so promptly, in any other sim before this one - and i've bought most of em.
Thank you Winder et al for this continued interest. It is keenly appreciated.
 
Looking at the DM from the other angle - bringing down the enemy - is there such a thing as a pilot "kill shot" modeled in OFF? Or other type of catastrophic damage? If so, I've never seen it.

All my kills in OFF are the slow, crashing-landing variety. I've had a few flamers, but even they seem to go on forever, like a flying torch. And I've put dozens of rounds into canvas-lined cockpits, just to see the bad guy keep flying along like he's wearing Kevlar underwear.

In RB, there were pilot head shots and wing losses - which resulted in planes dropping like a rock. Didn't happen often, but enough to provide some variety and realism.

Does that happen in OFF? Am I missing something? (Maybe I'm just a bad shot.)
 
Queeg said:
Looking at the DM from the other angle - bringing down the enemy - is there such a thing as a pilot "kill shot" modeled in OFF? Or other type of catastrophic damage? If so, I've never seen it.

All my kills in OFF are the slow, crashing-landing variety. I've had a few flamers, but even they seem to go on forever, like a flying torch. And I've put dozens of rounds into canvas-lined cockpits, just to see the bad guy keep flying along like he's wearing Kevlar underwear.

In RB, there were pilot head shots and wing losses - which resulted in planes dropping like a rock. Didn't happen often, but enough to provide some variety and realism.

Does that happen in OFF? Am I missing something? (Maybe I'm just a bad shot.)
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I think I was shot in the head one time, by a rear gunner. I was already headed for the deck but had a way to go when the screen suddenly went black.
 
Well I've heard two different "grunts" from the AI when I've hit the pilot...one small "ugh" and he keeps flying, while the other "AAIIIEEEEE" which I think means he's dead.
 
tn_prvteye said:
Well I've heard two different "grunts" from the AI when I've hit the pilot...one small "ugh" and he keeps flying, while the other "AAIIIEEEEE" which I think means he's dead.
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I have "realistic" sounds set so all I hear is my motor. I don't hear my own guns, let alone when I'm being hit myself, and I sure don't hear any voices from other planes. So I figure I've hit the pilot when the plane suddenlly goes completely out of control and crashes :).
 
I remember that I could barrel roll in an Se5 back in P2...now I cant :crybaby:
 
i can add that i have been beamed in the head by a bullet with one of my pilots. I was in a tight turn with an enemy on my six, i was looking back at him and saw a few tracers hit my plane and then the screen went black. I had plenty of altitude so i know it wasnt the ground.

And on the other side of the firing cone, i have put shots into an enemy cockpit to see the plane violently list to one side, turn over on itself and drop like a stone. On the other hand, i have put bullets into the cockpit of an enemy and watch as he slowly without any change in direction soflty glide straight into the ground.

what i cant tell you is if ive notice that i have been wounded and been able to keep flying, ive never seen a slow fade to red with major problems controlling the plane, and i have know way of telling if i did that to any enemy planes.


but i do see where you are coming from where i too have put bullets into a cockpit almost positive i had to hit the pilot with no such luck. I strike that up to those tails you hear about pilots returning hom and finding there jacket had been pierced straight through without taking a dime of flesh off the pilot. Also, i just got finished reading the part in Udets book where his goggles were actually shot off his face! i dont think it gets any closer than that.

and i also have to agree that there have been times when ive been plunked with maybe 2 or 3 bullets from a lucky shot and my plane loses 75% of its control and what seems like a MAJOR energy loss as well. but there is no real way of knowing if ive ever done the same to the enemy.

most of my combat has been done early war so the crates back then were dodgy even without being riddled with bullets so its hard to say.
 
Queeg said:
Looking at the DM from the other angle - bringing down the enemy - is there such a thing as a pilot "kill shot" modeled in OFF?
Does that happen in OFF? Am I missing something? (Maybe I'm just a bad shot.)
Click to expand...

I experienced exactly a head shot in Phase 2 me in a DH2, him in an EIII, as the EIII ran like a yellow dog, ( I later realized there was a flight of 8 DH2's behind me). I threw a short burst his way, no more than 2 or 3 at 200+, he nosed down and augered in.

Also I'd say it was an unrealistic FM in RB3D, they had a Roll Rate like they had a 700 HP Engine. These were actually boxkites with engines :sheep:
 
gimpyguy said:
Also I'd say it was an unrealistic FM in RB3D, they had a Roll Rate like they had a 700 HP Engine. These were actually boxkites with engines
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+1. I remember the SE5 in RB3D (hell I was playing it with an old pac man joystic! like THIS). It was more manueverable than a triplane. It could barrel roll like mad and loop indefinently.
 
Gousgounis said:
No you didnt. How?
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In QC FreeFlight ( Z ) SE5 full power dive from 15,000, you'll hit 275 mph

Pull out at 700 feet and Live

The SE5 & the Bristol Fighter can do it, EVERYBODY Else Dies

For when you absolutely, positively have to Escape

Or to clear your sinus condition

Strong Birds . . The Contract called for 300 mph servivability

Probably Kill Yourself with Battle Damage

But the chance EXISTS :applause::applause::applause::applause:
 
Queeg said:
All my kills in OFF are the slow, crashing-landing variety. I've had a few flamers, but even they seem to go on forever, like a flying torch.
Click to expand...


This happens to me ALL THE TIME flying my Nieuport. Switch to the Germans or a later war Camel and you will light them up light a Christmas tree to the point where the pilot pulls a Raoul Lufbery rahter than burn. The twin, high rate of fire guns like the Spandaus and the Vickers make a huge difference.

RR
 
I've gotten the message "Your Pilot was hit" in the uh, the text where hits are written out, without blacking out or dying. I'm fairly sure that I wasn't immortal (and definately not invulnerable) at the time. So it seems possible you can get hit in non-vital areas. This was during QC and I didn't fly around and see whether I would lose consciousness from blood loss or not.

I think both FM's and DM's of the AC I've flown (all Albatri) are fine. no, not fine, brilliant. The two things I feel could be enhanced (as opposed to "fixed") are low level AI for at least the Alb series and rear gunner accuracy, which I feel is slightly too good. For amazing survivability at low level against Albs I point (heeeere it comes again) to the N17. They fare way better than Pups, Camels, SE5's and Tripehounds. Not that they shoot your wingmen down, they just manage to stay airborne until the Albs hit fatal stalls.

Also, please advise why Wide Gunnery for rear gunners nets a higher Realism value? Is it because it becomes harder IF you play as a gunner yourself or because two-seaters becomes deadlier when you attack them?
 
I have positively killed AI pilots by headshots in P3. So no complaint necessary. Also I go exclusively for pilot and engine and I am closing in as near as I can before firing.

RB3D is no comparison. For example the pilot's head hitbox of the Pfalz D.XII has the size of a colour TV. You simply can't miss it. As badly as I wanted to fly the Pfalz D.XII it was too frustrating.
 
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