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The Staff of SOH
For all you Apple happy users ...
- Thread starter Snuffy
- Start date
Cratermaker
Charter Member
Isn't this the same news from a couple months ago? Attacks on Macs are so infrequent, they have to repeat the same story. 
http://macs.about.com/b/2009/04/16/symantec-discovers-ibotnet.htm
http://macs.about.com/b/2009/04/16/symantec-discovers-ibotnet.htm
Yes I saw that yesterday and noticed it was old news just being rehashed but never fear as MAC and Linux grow in popularity they will continue to be attacked more regularly with most likely less resources to detect it.
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Hey Snuffy and all,
Yes, this is old news. Amazingly, it was a Trojan put into a pirate copy of iWork 09, the Apple version of Windows Office. (Amazing software, I should like to add. iWork that is, not the trojan).
The totally wacked part about all of this is that Apple/Mac iWork only sells for $79.00. These people would rather steal software, risk virus' getting into their Macs to save some dollars. I know its rough times, but man.. There must be a way that is 'right'.
In the mean time, yes, the interest in 'computer terrorism' is spreading to Apple and Linux, unfortunately.. Sad.
Bill
Yes, this is old news. Amazingly, it was a Trojan put into a pirate copy of iWork 09, the Apple version of Windows Office. (Amazing software, I should like to add. iWork that is, not the trojan).
The totally wacked part about all of this is that Apple/Mac iWork only sells for $79.00. These people would rather steal software, risk virus' getting into their Macs to save some dollars. I know its rough times, but man.. There must be a way that is 'right'.
In the mean time, yes, the interest in 'computer terrorism' is spreading to Apple and Linux, unfortunately.. Sad.
Bill
Also notice the exploit requires, as Bill pointed out, that you download and install pirated software -- that's not an indication of a basic flaw in the OS X architecture
The difference between a flight sim program on a disk, and a "virus" or "trojan" on a disk (or download) is just the intent of the program -- from the computers perspective they're just bits and bytes. The computer does what the program instructs.
The trick from a hackers perspective is getting the program onto a victim's computer. The method above requires intervention -- and a monumental level of stupidity -- by the end user. Pretty ineffective when trying to build a network of infected machines (a robot network, or "botnet").
I'd also say, that from a "networking" perspective, if someone asserts that OS X and Linux have a limited support network they should take another look at the Linux developers forums, or at Apple's record of timely security patches.
For those who can get to a terminal window in OS X you'll see an operating system that looks remarkably like BSD Unix (because that's what its based on). Unix operating system architectures inherently partition privileges and "sandbox" processes so it is much more difficult for a compromise to take over a computer. This is the model that Microsoft is moving towards with Vista and Windows 7. Of course Unix has about a 35 year head start. On the Linux Ubuntu 8.10 system I'm on right now I run at a reduced privilege level as a regular user. I could bypass that but it would be more trouble that its worth, and I gain nothing as far as system usefulness or function. Linux and I manually elevate privileges when I need to do system maintenance.
Hence the need for end-user intervention to infect a system like OS X. Not a great way to build a 1,000,000 node "botnet" (if there are that many Macs on the planet... (sorry Bill
.
With so many "easy" Windows systems available throughout the world what would be the point of developing a virus or compromise for OS X or Linux? With OS X and Linux nominally more difficult to get into in the first place, and providing a smaller base of systems for building a botnet, developing malicious code for either is kind of a waste of time. I guess you could do it to prove you could do it ...or, that you like to FAIL!
The difference between a flight sim program on a disk, and a "virus" or "trojan" on a disk (or download) is just the intent of the program -- from the computers perspective they're just bits and bytes. The computer does what the program instructs.
The trick from a hackers perspective is getting the program onto a victim's computer. The method above requires intervention -- and a monumental level of stupidity -- by the end user. Pretty ineffective when trying to build a network of infected machines (a robot network, or "botnet").
I'd also say, that from a "networking" perspective, if someone asserts that OS X and Linux have a limited support network they should take another look at the Linux developers forums, or at Apple's record of timely security patches.
For those who can get to a terminal window in OS X you'll see an operating system that looks remarkably like BSD Unix (because that's what its based on). Unix operating system architectures inherently partition privileges and "sandbox" processes so it is much more difficult for a compromise to take over a computer. This is the model that Microsoft is moving towards with Vista and Windows 7. Of course Unix has about a 35 year head start. On the Linux Ubuntu 8.10 system I'm on right now I run at a reduced privilege level as a regular user. I could bypass that but it would be more trouble that its worth, and I gain nothing as far as system usefulness or function. Linux and I manually elevate privileges when I need to do system maintenance.
Hence the need for end-user intervention to infect a system like OS X. Not a great way to build a 1,000,000 node "botnet" (if there are that many Macs on the planet... (sorry Bill
. With so many "easy" Windows systems available throughout the world what would be the point of developing a virus or compromise for OS X or Linux? With OS X and Linux nominally more difficult to get into in the first place, and providing a smaller base of systems for building a botnet, developing malicious code for either is kind of a waste of time. I guess you could do it to prove you could do it ...or, that you like to FAIL!
AckAck
Charter Member 2015
"Success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm"
-Winston Churchill
Brian
My Apple laptop has been stable as ever and never has had a burp....thank goodness. They only have a update once in a while. One of the statements above is very true and that is there aren't no where near as many Apples as there are Windows systems.The trekkies can't do nowhere near as much damage to a Apple then what they can do to a Windows system..Mike
I think that java-2srv mistook what I said so I am going to break it down.
Forgive me if I am mistaken
This is not an implication of how secure the OS is but a simple statement of what will happen when MAC and Linux gain more market share. BTW I am all for MAC and Linux getting more market share. It can only help Windows Security.
This statement does not refer to Support for each respective community. Each community has a tremendous amount of support I know this very well. This really just points out there will be a lag in development of Anti-Virus programs when compared to the Windows OS. There are a ton of software developers to combat Viruses for Windows based PC. Once the number of MAC/Linux units becomes high enough and attacks increase owners of those PC will have less options to choose from.
Finally when you tie the two together the real point was that the article in question was not news at all rather it stemmed from a lack of available current news.
I disagree with the wording "Pretty ineffective" you need to look at this event from a tactical stand point. The exercise was not to build a network of 1,000,000 bots but to test the effectiveness of the Trojan in the MAC environment and how long can it go on undetected. Using P2P to distribute the Trojan is a guaranteed way to insure distribution. Since you are now infecting P2P users you are guaranteed that they will have their Computers running all the time. This will give the Trojan programmer time to test his Botnet and prepare for bigger and better developments in the future.
One thing I think we all need to understand. Computers no matter what the OS were made by man and man will find a way to corrupt it. Which will leave someone else to try and clean up the mess.
I agree and this should apply to Virus creators very easily. Imagine the Joy of a programmer when he completes his first piece of malware. Then to have it immediately caught by an Anti-Virus program because it has already been written. I doubt he will stop there.
Forgive me if I am mistaken
This is not an implication of how secure the OS is but a simple statement of what will happen when MAC and Linux gain more market share. BTW I am all for MAC and Linux getting more market share. It can only help Windows Security.
This statement does not refer to Support for each respective community. Each community has a tremendous amount of support I know this very well. This really just points out there will be a lag in development of Anti-Virus programs when compared to the Windows OS. There are a ton of software developers to combat Viruses for Windows based PC. Once the number of MAC/Linux units becomes high enough and attacks increase owners of those PC will have less options to choose from.
Finally when you tie the two together the real point was that the article in question was not news at all rather it stemmed from a lack of available current news.
I disagree with the wording "Pretty ineffective" you need to look at this event from a tactical stand point. The exercise was not to build a network of 1,000,000 bots but to test the effectiveness of the Trojan in the MAC environment and how long can it go on undetected. Using P2P to distribute the Trojan is a guaranteed way to insure distribution. Since you are now infecting P2P users you are guaranteed that they will have their Computers running all the time. This will give the Trojan programmer time to test his Botnet and prepare for bigger and better developments in the future.
One thing I think we all need to understand. Computers no matter what the OS were made by man and man will find a way to corrupt it. Which will leave someone else to try and clean up the mess.
I agree and this should apply to Virus creators very easily. Imagine the Joy of a programmer when he completes his first piece of malware. Then to have it immediately caught by an Anti-Virus program because it has already been written. I doubt he will stop there.