For Talon, Shadow Wolf 07, and Cody Coyote...Advanced MB editing

[Rami]

For Talon, Shadow Wolf 07, and Cody Coyote...Advanced MB editing

Good afternoon, my fellow sim friends...

Something that we discussed in passing last night really stuck in my memory, and I wanted to ask you about it. We had a conversation last night about Mission Builder and hand-editing missions so that you are a wingman instead of the lead pilot.

Especially for bomber missions as a Stuka (and later a level bomber) pilot, am I to assume that if you hand-edit the missions so that you are a wingman, rather than a lead pilot, that the flight will attack the desired target? This is one thing I struggle with in the Stuka missions. I have included a extra flight of Stukas to "show you the way" to the target, but the problem is how to get the AI to attack properly.

If so, am I to assume that this is found in Cody Coyote's MB handbook?

 

[Talon]

Rami,

I'm not sure if it was in Cody's tutorial. It's a simple process and I will explain to you next time on skype. The AI planes in your flight will attack the target even if you are a wingman and not the leader.

Talon

 

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Talon answered the question of attacks, but keep in mind, the other members of the flight will not obey radio commands like "split" or "attack." See page 135 of CC's old handbook for "how to."

 

[bearcat241]

And they don't linger in the target area for repeated attacks on the designated target(s) either, as they would with you as the leader. Depending on their initial results, sometimes this may require that you set up your attack run last in order to finish their business. I do appreciate the way that the flight promptly reforms on the AI leader and stays in formation much more vigorously for egressing the area, rather than the often annoying "wandering" you get as the player-leader trying to manage the stragglers.

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Hello,

Wow! I tried this on a few of the Stuka missions, and what a difference! You can now play "follow the leader" with the lead pilot, and all of the planes attack together. I can't believe how much easier this will make designing bomber missions, it's literally like night and day.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Talon]

Hello,

Wow! I tried this on a few of the Stuka missions, and what a difference! You can now play "follow the leader" with the lead pilot, and all of the planes attack together. I can't believe how much easier this will make designing bomber missions, it's literally like night and day.

Thanks for the tip!

And I know nothing about mission building. Was a lucky guess.

 

[Rami]

Reply...

And I know nothing about mission building. Was a lucky guess.

Talon,

Lol...it's a good thing I'm wearing my hiking boots, 'cause the *hit's getting deep in here!

 

[Talon]

Talon,

Lol...it's a good thing I'm wearing my hiking boots, 'cause the *hit's getting deep in here!

Isn't that what SOH stands for=*hit's overly high?

 

[P51FAN]

Hello,

Wow! I tried this on a few of the Stuka missions, and what a difference! You can now play "follow the leader" with the lead pilot, and all of the planes attack together. I can't believe how much easier this will make designing bomber missions, it's literally like night and day.

Thanks for the tip!

Would you mind my requesting a few more details? I would be interested in giving this a try.

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Isn't that what SOH stands for=*hit's overly high?

Possibly, but I have another question. How does it work if you take off from a carrier, O mighty one?

 

[Shadow Wolf 07]

From the "Handbook"

Flying as a Wingman​

Have you ever wanted to fly as a wingman? Staying in formation can be tricky, especially when flyinga heavy bomber. Not only does it add a new and challenging dimension to your missions, but it’ll helpyou develop your piloting skills as well. Switching places with your wingmen is one of the quickestand easiest hand-edits you can make in CFS2. Here’s how.Open up the​

mis file and scroll down to theplayer’s formation, it may or may not be​

[formation.0]​

but it will say​

players_formation​

on the sixth line (see theillustration). You’ll recall from ChapterThirteen, the player’s aircraft is listed first,9078 in this case. To swap positions with anyother plane in the flight simply copy theplayer’s number to the position you want to flyin and copy that aircraft number to the firstposition.For example, if we wanted to fly in the sixthposition, simply replace 9083 with the player’snumber 9078 and vice versa. Save themission and you will now be flying in the sixthposition instead of leading the flight.There are four things to keep in mind whenflying as a wingman. First, your callsign won’tchange unless you also edit the callsigns atthe end of the mis file. In this example wewould still show as Agate instead of Agate-5.Second, even though you are flying as awingman you are still in control of the radiocommands. The new flight leader will not givethe commands “Split”, “Attack”, etc. Althoughonly you can give these commands, thewingmen won’t obey them. So, if you areflying in the sixth position and give thecommand to “Split” nothing will happen.Third, if you make any modifications to themission in Mission Builder the game will resetyou to the lead position and you will have toedit the mission again to return to yourwingman’s slot.Finally, if your mission starts with your flight taking off, don’t waste any time getting airborne. Whenyou are the flight leader no one moves until you do, so you can take your time getting started. Whenyou are flying as a wingman the flight leader’s engine is running and he is ready to go. As soon as hestarts to move, the remainder of the flight begins to roll. If you have an aircraft behind you and youdon’t get started on time they will run into you and both of your planes will explode, killing you andending the mission. When flying as a wingman get your engine started right away and roll off the line​

as soon as it’s your turn.

[formation.0]​

id=6000type=airwaypoint_path_id=5000directive=8​

players_formation​

=1formation_type=1
points=2
unit_id_position.0=9078,0,0.0,0.0,0.0
unit_id_position.1=9079,0,-300.0,-600.0,0.0
unit_id_position.2=9080,0,300.0,-600.0,150.0
unit_id_position.3=9081,0,600.0,-1200.0,150.0
unit_id_position.4=9082,0,1200.0,-1200.0,300.0
unit_id_position.5=9083,0,900.0,-1800.0,300.0
unit_id_position.6=9084,0,1500.0,-1800.0,450.0
unit_id_position.7=9085,0,1800.0,-2400.0,450.0

[formation.0]
id=6000type=airwaypoint_path_id=5000directive=8
players_formation=
1formation_type=1
points=2
unit_id_position.0=9083,0,0.0,0.0,0.0
unit_id_position.1=9079,0,-300.0,-600.0,0.0
unit_id_position.2=9080,0,300.0,-600.0,150.0
unit_id_position.3=9081,0,600.0,-1200.0,150.0
unit_id_position.4=9082,0,1200.0,-1200.0,300.0
unit_id_position.5=9078,0,900.0,-1800.0,300.0
unit_id_position.6=9084,0,1500.0,-1800.0,450.0​

unit_id_position.7=9085,0,1800.0,-2400.0,450.0

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Cody's points are true, but the biggest advantage is that the AI aircraft in the formation actually attack the target if they are bombers!

 

[Talon]

Possibly, but I have another question. How does it work if you take off from a carrier, O mighty one?

Still only the player aircraft is on the carrier.

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Still only the player aircraft is on the carrier.

Yeah, and it's also nice because the AI planes don't circle around and slam into each other.

 

[bearcat241]

Yeah, and it's also nice because the AI planes don't circle around and slam into each other.

As player/leader, the solution with that is easy - hit the "split" command key the moment your plane loads onto the flight deck, before you do anything else. This will separate the pack temporarily with more distance than normal and bring them back together on you as you climb out, instead of on each other as a group.

 

[Cody Coyote]

Obviously I'm very late getting to this party, but the topic has been covered very well indeed.

As mentioned, flying as a wingman is a simple mod and offers a new perspective to the mission. The biggest downside I've seen is not being able to give commands (not that the AI ever did what I told them anyway). On the other hand, flying as a wingman in a bomber formation is a test of your piloting skills. As I mention in the Handbook, watch out for those ground starts or you'll get run over, ending the mission on the spot. Get your engine started and go when it's your turn.

I have seen one other bug when flying as a wingman in a B-24. Even at full throttle I could not keep up with the AI formation. Coming out of warp I was right where I belonged, but over time they pull away and I cannot catch them. I suspect it may be some obscure difference in weight or power between the player aircraft and the AI, but I've never fully understood the intricacies of the air file so I don't let it bother me (unless I end up as Tail End Charlie with the 109's on my butt).

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Cody,

I kept that in mind, and I made sure to place your aircraft at the back-left or back-right of the formation on the runway, that way you don't have to deal with another aircraft running into your tail section as you roll down the runway.

As for the B-24 Liberator, I use the Alphasim and K.Malinowski models, so I'm not entirely sure how that problem with maintaining formation would work out.

I'm limiting my use of this to fighter-bomber or bomber-based missions. When you are leading fighter sweeps, transferring from one airbase to another, and escorting bombers, I leave those missions alone, no modifications are necessary. My goal is to allow for the AI of the bomber flights to attack the targets as directed.

 

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Hmm...

I think I'll edit some of the strike missions in my recent campaign, ie: the divebomber and torpedo plane variants. In a few of the Avenger missions, there are secondary/alternate targets for the player flight, in case the primary is sunk by the divebombers. It will be interesting to see if the AI led torpedo planes switch and attack the secondary target.

 

[Shadow Wolf 07]

I think I'll edit some of the strike missions in my recent campaign, ie: the divebomber and torpedo plane variants. In a few of the Avenger missions, there are secondary/alternate targets for the player flight, in case the primary is sunk by the divebombers. It will be interesting to see if the AI led torpedo planes switch and attack the secondary target.

I tried it with a divebomber mission and all went well except... 1. Two of my wingmen collided before I could clear the flight deck and... 2. After dropping my bomb I circled to the right after pulling up and going full throttle, while my flight circled away to the left. I continued to circle right and watched the torpedo planes attack the target. I had a waypoint remaining at 3.5 miles and my "return waypoint" 10 miles from there. By the time I reached the return wp my flight was already out of sight and warp was disabled = not working.

I will open the mission in MB and check from the unchanged Campaign folder mission to assure warp was set up originally for that mission. I tried to run this mission earlier with the wrong wingman settings, hand edited in. This left me in command of the flight as normal... return warp worked then.

 

[Shadow Wolf 07]

False alarm... I fixed it. I had switched flight leaders in the wrong flight in an earlier attempt and forgot to switch them back when I made the changes in the player flight. This time I hit WP4 before following my flight in on the attack and I didn't loiter so long before heading to the return/warp home WP.

Gonna do the same with the torpedo plane version of the same mission next.

One thing I noticed is that before reaching the last before attack waypoint (WP4), the others in the flight peel off in formation and descend to a point of about 9000 ft AGL and then level off and start their bomb run. This is despite the fact that I plotted them at waypoints to dive bomb attack from 12,500 ft. Hmmm...