FR B-24 Liberator Released
- Thread starter mike_cyul
- Start date
FlyingsCool
SOH-CM-2019
The way in which any aircraft/repaint looks in P3Dv5 can vary greatly, since there is a range provided of lighting/atmospheric options in P3D. If you have HDR lighting and advanced atmospherics turned off in P3Dv5, it still looks very much like FSX. However, with HDR lighting and enhanced atmospherics on in P3Dv5, it looks like a completely different sim. There is just a different level of contrast/colors, all dependent on individual settings, and a different level of power given to the diffuse alpha channels in P3D vs. FS.
Using the same files in both P3Dv5 and FSX, I like the appearance either way.
Here are the Collings Foundation's B-24J & Me-262 in FSX DX10 (unedited, with no shader addons):
This is same exact repaint in P3Dv5 (unedited, and with no shader addons, using P3Dv5's built-in HDR lighting and enhanced atmospherics).
Hi John,
Do you mind uploading your ME-262? I've been creating/collecting Collings Foundation paints. I'm working on someday working with them and helping them maintain a set of flight sim installs at their museum in Stow, one of the features of which will be to fly their planes.
Thanks,
Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
That is the Flight Replicas two-seat Me-262, with a repaint by JensOle available here: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=180&linkid=10023
Attached is a copy of the "Fuselage 3.dds" file, for that repaint, which I've modified so that the canopy textures are fully present. Speaking of Collings, I've heard that their second B-17G (ex-Evergreen) is supposed to be getting painted as "Outhouse Mouse".
Attached is a copy of the "Fuselage 3.dds" file, for that repaint, which I've modified so that the canopy textures are fully present. Speaking of Collings, I've heard that their second B-17G (ex-Evergreen) is supposed to be getting painted as "Outhouse Mouse".
FlyingsCool
SOH-CM-2019
Awesome.. Thanks!
That's great!. I hope they get to continue flying. I've only been out there once since my Dad passed in January, and then this Covid thing hit and the museum hasn't been opened, and I've been occupied with other stuff. But I need to get out there again in the next couple weeks, I imagine they'll be opening again in June or July I hope.
I was talking to Rob the day before the crash, and I asked if they'd had any further engine issues. They had to rush an engine out to California from the east coast in I think it was early March last year for the B-25, but didn't have any other major maintenance headaches after that. It had been a super record season for them last year. So sad.
tgycgijoes
Members +
We Are Looking For A Few Good Pilots
I'm wondering, where all the pilots are? The repainters are ALL here and doing fantastic work. Mike Cyul has already done his part by giving us this absolutely tremendous replica of the B-24 Liberator. Now its time for you to join us: the LIBERAIDERS, the 461st Bomb Group (virtual) and fly 'er like she was designed to be flown: in formation with other B-24's recreating history. The designer has done his part...the repainters have done their part, we've done OUR part recreating the scenery and the missions. NOW its YOUR turn. https://tgycgijoes5.wixsite.com/liberaiders What are you waiting for?
Attachments
Greenhouse357
SOH-CM-2023
Here's another one I'm working On.
tgycgijoes
Members +
Really Nice Job
Great job Dave.
Great job Dave.
Greenhouse357
SOH-CM-2023
...or Bob lol. Thanks, tgycgijoes! Not sure about the red rudders on the inside. Hard to tell with old b/w pictures, but it looks exactly the same as the outside. I like them like they are but will change them if someone knows if they weren't that way.
Greenhouse357
SOH-CM-2023
Taco, in my case I haven't bought it yet.
tgycgijoes
Members +
Red inside rudders
There are not many photos of complete aircraft in the air that are not old and far away. Crews mostly took photos with their noseart. The majority that I can CLEARLY see do NOT have red inside rudders. Only the outside of the rudders is painted. That goes also for the other BG's in the 15th AF. The one thing I DID notice in my repainting is that although AAF sent down marking directives, they were interpreted by the Crew Chiefs as to what they meant. Especially for the markings on the tails of the 461st BG. I have a Camouflage Publication quoting the different directives which btw were all text, not illustrated as they are now in the military services for aircraft and vehicles. There are a lot of variations of the tail rectangle markings. If you don't have a clear, definitive photo you are safe to NOT paint the inside of the rudder red. In almost all cases it was not painted. That went for other bomb groups too. I also originally painted the complete horizontal stab on my aircraft all red when in fact it was not until sometime in 1945 so I corrected all my original 10 repaints for the 764th BS. The natural metal ones I DID paint the stab all red as is directed by AAF.
The only photo I find of #24 Tulsa american has no marking at all on the tail just the serial:
Here is a nice, clear photo of another aircraft #36:
almost all others show no inside paint either. I don't want to be too critical but the layer of your rudder should be the same so that the reds are the same. You can change them since you need to delete the red layers on the inside. Jan Kees has corrected me a lot too and I learned from every correction.
The only photo of #24 Replacement Aircraft above shows no tail markings but this is probably just after it was ferried across. I apologize that I did not notice your all red rudders above but it was late and I was tired; but those are not correct at all. You can see the accurate way to paint the vertical stab and rudders outside only above. What did you use as your reference for how you painted it?
Here are two incorrect profiles from two different sources that are going to mislead a lot of modelers or repainters. That is a BAD thing. Howard Chappelle a past curator of the Smithsonian Institute said that if you can't do it right don't do it to paraphrase him on numerous occassions.
from Wings Pallette collection. I wonder if some photo they saw in b/w looked like white not red. Jan Kees corrected me on this in a different post for the "Checkertail Clan" of the nose of a P-51 that really looks white but that is a film error from 1944.
Here, the squares/numbers are reversed. Tail is correct for some aircraft but no definitive photo of Tulsa American with this tail. You can see above that the serial is NOT reversed out on #36 however it is on others.
There are examples of black numbers on natural metal; white squares/black numbers as on #26 Irish Angel/She Wolf that Mike cyul repainted and is above and then white numbers in black squares on a number of different aircraft in different squadrons.
Check this out for all kinds of examples: https://461st.org/765th Sqdn/765th_Sqdn.html
There are not many photos of complete aircraft in the air that are not old and far away. Crews mostly took photos with their noseart. The majority that I can CLEARLY see do NOT have red inside rudders. Only the outside of the rudders is painted. That goes also for the other BG's in the 15th AF. The one thing I DID notice in my repainting is that although AAF sent down marking directives, they were interpreted by the Crew Chiefs as to what they meant. Especially for the markings on the tails of the 461st BG. I have a Camouflage Publication quoting the different directives which btw were all text, not illustrated as they are now in the military services for aircraft and vehicles. There are a lot of variations of the tail rectangle markings. If you don't have a clear, definitive photo you are safe to NOT paint the inside of the rudder red. In almost all cases it was not painted. That went for other bomb groups too. I also originally painted the complete horizontal stab on my aircraft all red when in fact it was not until sometime in 1945 so I corrected all my original 10 repaints for the 764th BS. The natural metal ones I DID paint the stab all red as is directed by AAF.
The only photo I find of #24 Tulsa american has no marking at all on the tail just the serial:
Here is a nice, clear photo of another aircraft #36:
The only photo of #24 Replacement Aircraft above shows no tail markings but this is probably just after it was ferried across. I apologize that I did not notice your all red rudders above but it was late and I was tired; but those are not correct at all. You can see the accurate way to paint the vertical stab and rudders outside only above. What did you use as your reference for how you painted it?
Here are two incorrect profiles from two different sources that are going to mislead a lot of modelers or repainters. That is a BAD thing. Howard Chappelle a past curator of the Smithsonian Institute said that if you can't do it right don't do it to paraphrase him on numerous occassions.
There are examples of black numbers on natural metal; white squares/black numbers as on #26 Irish Angel/She Wolf that Mike cyul repainted and is above and then white numbers in black squares on a number of different aircraft in different squadrons.
Check this out for all kinds of examples: https://461st.org/765th Sqdn/765th_Sqdn.html
Attachments
Last edited:
Greenhouse357
SOH-CM-2023
Thank you tgycgijoes for all the great info! I had already started working on the rudders to remove the inner red because I hadn't seen that on any other aircraft. Here are the reference pics I was going off of.
tgycgijoes
Members +
Interesting
In looking at the actual photo and the illustration, I would think that Tulsa American actually had a really unique rudder and that as i mentioned in the reply above, the old b/w film didn't pick up the red all the time. I can see that whoever did that illustration interpreted it correctly. Remove the inner red and leave the full rudder red as shown. Quite a unique repaint. Nice job on the noseart too. Her crew took a liberty to do the tail as they did. And now I wonder...there are no other 461st BG aircraft with inner rudders painted BUT...neither are there any other aircraft painted with a full red rudder either. You have a real photo, so you make the call.
Richard
In looking at the actual photo and the illustration, I would think that Tulsa American actually had a really unique rudder and that as i mentioned in the reply above, the old b/w film didn't pick up the red all the time. I can see that whoever did that illustration interpreted it correctly. Remove the inner red and leave the full rudder red as shown. Quite a unique repaint. Nice job on the noseart too. Her crew took a liberty to do the tail as they did. And now I wonder...there are no other 461st BG aircraft with inner rudders painted BUT...neither are there any other aircraft painted with a full red rudder either. You have a real photo, so you make the call.
Richard
mike_cyul
SOH-CM-2025
Hopefully this isn't too nitpicky, but looking at the photo of Tulsa American, I can see that the red stripes on the US flag on the nose art have become the same shade as the tail (red filter on camera?) but the heavy curved stripe under the "The Tulsa American" is dark. Wouldn't that make it not red? Perhaps blue? I also note that the flag of Tulsa, Oklahoma at that time had blue and white stripes.
Just curious!
Just curious!
tgycgijoes
Members +
Noseart
There are some REALLY good photos of the Tulsa American Noseart at the 461st BG Reunion site which has a link in my reply above to check out.
mike_cyul
SOH-CM-2025
I had a look (thanks!) but didn't see any colour photos?
tgycgijoes
Members +
No Color
There are no color photos that I know of. Check out the two color plates that I found above and see what they did.
Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
Here is the highest resolution photo of the nose art that I've seen. This nose art was applied to the aircraft at the Tulsa factory, having been the last B-24 built there.
https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn....=b4ea8b5fec95a4659a5b4437ca2b88de&oe=5EDA0524
The letters would be red on a blue and white background of the scroll (the scroll outlined in black), based on the relationship to the tonal values as seen in the flag, where the red appears darker than the blue. That is the way it is depicted in Bob's repaint, and which I think is accurate.
There was a NOVA special on PBS a while back, about the discovery of the wreck of this aircraft in 2010.
https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn....=b4ea8b5fec95a4659a5b4437ca2b88de&oe=5EDA0524
The letters would be red on a blue and white background of the scroll (the scroll outlined in black), based on the relationship to the tonal values as seen in the flag, where the red appears darker than the blue. That is the way it is depicted in Bob's repaint, and which I think is accurate.
There was a NOVA special on PBS a while back, about the discovery of the wreck of this aircraft in 2010.
Greenhouse357
SOH-CM-2023
Hi guys...I think I'm done with it, or at least I'm tired of looking at templates lol. John, I replied to your mail. I actually have 2 color pics of the noseart.
