FSX on a MAC

[txnetcop]

I don't think it's about deciding which is better. I think it's more likely an issue of 'I'm stuck with a mac, can't afford two computers but still want FSX' in most cases.

Sorry I was unclear. I am not throwing rocks at MAC...it is exellent for what it was designed for but it was never meant to be a gamer unit...now maybe with the easy interface it has that will happen but they have some internal changes to make to put it up there with a good, well-built Windows Gaming Machine. Like I said I play with a MAC Pro when I get bored baby-sitting a bunch of servers. But the gamer I built for less than $1100 runs circles around the fastest MAC and runs FSX nearly flawlessly(Everyone I have built for would testify to that). I would love to see the day that Steven Jobs opens up MAC for third party hardware product developers. It would lower the cost of MACS and open the gaming market for it. But if someone is buying a MAC just to run FSX that is insane.
Ted

 

[Bjoern]

Ok, that pretty much made up my mind, thanks

No problem.

By the way, I could be very much alone with that opinion. I think most people have no problem at all with x64 OSes and XP64 in particular.

Man Bjoern,

I could truly shed a tear there.. I know the struggle. We have trully tried to run this thing.... Every single trick, adjustment, tweak, niggle, jiggle, prayer, tap, smack, clobber, GC, PSU, CPU, RAM.......

:friday: :faint:



arrghhh

If it wasn't for the money spent, I would throw this thing off the next highrise building.


Off to install XP32.

 

[kilo delta]

I can confirm that I've had no issues with Vista Ultimate 64bit...especially since SP1 was released. I'm running this OS on all of my desktop systems.

 

[kilo delta]

oops. double post

 

[beatle]

I'll throw my vote in with Kilo's, I've never had any problems with FlightSim, Visual Studio, or Office on my Vista 64-bit systems, and I've been using that on my primary dev machines for more than 2 years now (so SP2/XPack and ESPv1 developement timeframe).

The main source of issues with using a 64-bit OS are those wierd gadgetty peripherals made by companies no one ever heard of (things like serial or USB text displays, graphic displays, etc) and certain older printers that were abandoned by their manufacturers - these only had 32-bit drivers written for them, and the company is either no longer around or just has written off the particular device, and no 64-bit driver will be forthcoming.

Any hardware purchased in the last couple of years (except maybe for some of the fly-by-night gadgetty stuff still, and certain TV tuner devices (ya hear me Pinnacle? :-> ) ) will have both 64-bit and 32-bit drivers available, or will be designed to work with existing class drivers and thus require no custom drivers at all.

There may still be certain 3rd party addons that aren't 64-bit compatible for one or more reasons (including building a Managed client using the Any CPU setting instead of the x86 specific build setting, assuming certain paths instead of looking them up in the registry or querying for System Folder paths, etc).

Tim

 

[Lionheart]

Hey Ted,


If I might humbly add to that.

On this computer (new iMac aluminum 24inch flat panel), it is running with an ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro, store bought 4 Gigs of DDR2 Ram, store bought 1 TB HD, and features an Intel dual core 2.8 mhrz chip.

Its the first time I have seen FSX run this smooth. I even have ground traffic now, and GA AI is up to 100%. The parts for Macs can be purchased at Frys and at NewEgg, and the parts are inexpensive. My 'sodium' 4Gig sticks were $49.00.

And.. I am now considering the G5 tower with a twin quad core, perhaps 12+ gigs of RAM, and a Sli.

I think Macs have taken a turn for what the people want, and gaming 'is' a main factor here. For instance, the newest edition of Call of Duty is available in Mac format, which would enable use of tons of RAM, as much as you could get. :d (OSX presently is limited to 32 Gigs of RAM).


So in defence of Mac, I offer that humble bit of info on them. I know you are in the business of building and maintaining super computers though, so surely I am missing some facts, but from what I am seeing here in front of me, this is one of the most powerful computers I have had yet. (and it looks cool :d This screen is simply amazing. You have to see it to believe it. Reminds me of a small plasma tv screen).

One last note... No one in all the stores I went to would help me to get XP running in a computer. I had to pay Techs to install it into my lappie. That was $400.00. With HP, I tried desperately to get a 'drivers' disc from them for XP. I did all I could aside from having the techs install XP. I even tried it myself to install XP on the last media center I purchased and lost all my data on that HD.

But... on this Mac, it runs XP like lightning... XP installs on it with no problems. I now have a computer that I can load XP on in an emergency, myself, without having to go to the techs at BB. That is one of the main things I was looking for months ago and no computer company was offering it directly to the public except Apple. (EDIT: They (such as hp) do offer XP but on specially ordered business computers, not available in stores, not advertised, and not supported).



Bill

 

[kilo delta]

Bill.......was it Apple's MacPro that you were checking out? If so, that system runs dual Xeon procs, 800mhz DDR2 memory and a poor range of Graphics cards for a whopping $2,800! Definitely not value for money and definitely no match for a modern good spec Intel 45nm quad core or mid spec Nethalem based system running a single ATi HD48xx series card for a substantially lower price.
If you are willing to spend that amount of money...and do not want the hassle of a self build then I'd recommend that you look at Dell's XPS desktop range. Contrary to what a lot of people will tell you, the modern Dell desktops are extremely reliable and are relatively very good value for money.

 

[Lionheart]

Bill.......was it Apple's MacPro that you were checking out? If so, that system runs dual Xeon procs, 800mhz DDR2 memory and a poor range of Graphics cards for a whopping $2,800! Definitely not value for money and definitely no match for a modern good spec Intel 45nm quad core or mid spec Nethalem based system running a single ATi HD48xx series card for a substantially lower price.
If you are willing to spend that amount of money...and do not want the hassle of a self build then I'd recommend that you look at Dell's XPS desktop range. Contrary to what a lot of people will tell you, the modern Dell desktops are extremely reliable and are relatively very good value for money.

Thanks Kilo Delta,


I got the iMac Alum Flatscreen, not the laptop. Investment of $1600.00. I did upgrade the HD and RAM though.

Ive heard to many good things about them, and had been hanging out at the Apple website every night for an hour at a time, going through tutorials and things, watching their prices at Ebay, (which hold quite well, darnit). I was planning the jump to Apple for a while now. vista really sizzled me with MS. I need options.

Also, learning the new OSX is a bit like getting a new car, lol.. New controls, etc.

Its not the 'best' available. Its by my standards, one of the best computers I have ever owned. My last one was about 2 to 3 years ago, a hp Media Center. (Loved that one... regretted losing it).


EDIT: You know, I have to say that I dont think Apple is totally for people that like to go into their computers and upgrade everything. Now I am seeing that they are more open to this now, but they keep a high quality/reliability grade on their equipment, so putting in cheap parts is supposed to be a 'no no'. But putting in powerful upgrades I think they are pretty much doable to an extent now these days, (such as RAM, HD's, etc). I would be curious if this graphics card can come out, just out of curiosity.

So, for guys that like to play around by souping up parts, get a PC. For guys like me that need a computer out of a box, to run fast and be reliable, well, I chose this. I cant even install a darn GC or PSU without losing the darn thing... arrghh..



Bill

 

[kilo delta]

"I would be curious if this graphics card can come out, just out of curiosity. "

I've no experience of Macs but I'd imagine that changing the GFX should be no difficult than on a PC.

"For guys like me that need a computer out of a box, to run fast and be reliable, well, I chose this."

...or go with a good prebuilt PC

 

[Kiwikat]

"For guys like me that need a computer out of a box, to run fast and be reliable, well, I chose this."

...or go with a good prebuilt PC

 

[txnetcop]

Bill I doubt that whatever facts I could quote you, it would change your thinking about PC units because of what you have experienced. I am honestly glad that you finally can enjoy FSX after all the things you have been through, even though I think many of the problems people suffer is self induced by buying inferior products to run a very complex and quirky software such as FSX. Amigo, unfortunately there are a lot of people out there like you who have suffered at the hands of poor off the shelf PCs and bad Tech advice or assistance. For that I am truly sorry for ya. I do believe that the more stable MAC platform is a big help for those who are not wanting to get a little techy with their PCs.

I have to deal in real facts when it comes to helping people with gaming units, not starry-eyed MAC hype. Someday MAC will have to address it's own limitations in power gaming if it wants the lion's share of the market. I don't know that is the road they are heading down...based on what is happening this year at their MACWorld Expo. There really is very little new gaming technology being introduced at the show according to Apple Insider. One thing MAC has done right recently was moving to the new Intel CPUs. I am waiting to see what benefit the new i7 Core brings to PowerMAC. I was hoping that would introduced this year but unfortunately all is quite.

Using 128 bit video cards is a no no if you want to get the absolute most out of FSX even if it has 1GB of RAM you are still crippling yourself. HP Interface is slow but with the advent of Blackbird it certainly got better, except for all the bloatware they put in it. MAC uses the ATI HD2600 video card which is good but not great for using FSX...now the thin 256 bit HD3870 for MAC is available but they charge and arm and leg for it. However it is a step forward. I still wonder why Apple walked away from Nvidia completely. the new i7 Core boards will allow for either ATI or Nvidia so I am looking forward to seeing that in the new MAC desktops.

Though MAC OS does allow 32GB so does Vista64 and so will Windows 7. In fact with Vista Ultimate I can use 128GB +, but that 32GB has no benefit if the application can't properly use it.

Currently COD4 on a PowerMAC is less than exciting compared to a decent, less expensive gaming PC. These games are GPU dependant not CPU like FSX although it does take a powerful CPU to push that memory useage.

I am a member at BAREFEATS, which is a MAC Site because I now do MAC repairs. I am hoping for a day when the bigger, better ATI and NVidia cards can be used in MAC desktops...even as an external unit. I have a very interesting design for a MAC Gamer that I think would sell like hotcakes at breakfast club.

For now MAC still doesn't cut it for the absolute best gaming, but I am hopeful that the day comes when it does. It will only expand my business interests.
However, sincere congrats on being able to finally run FSX.
Ted

 

[Lionheart]

Thanks Ted,


Its so awesome to be coming in on approach and see cars driving on the roads now. :d Just like real world flying. Finally I have this in FSX. (Ive had that option off since the release of FSX or I couldnt fly it).


Bill

 

[Ghostrider]

Hi guys, looks like I'll be answering my own question soon enough. I posted this over on NewsHawks in response to another thread:

Hi Bill.

After hearing me complain about Windows for the past few years, Santa (my Wife) surprised me with a MacBook Pro! My first Apple computer!!

Guys, I have to agree with Bill. The workmanship, look, feel and overall quality is way beyond any PC I have ever seen!! Including the custom, 'best of everything' (at the time) PC I built myself several years ago.

She (bless her heart!) made sure it was the newest version of Apples Macbook Pro series currently available and it has all the upgrades. This thing puts my ol' custom homebuilt PC to shame! I'm blown away a 'laptop' could be such a powerful little computer. It has an Intel Core 2 Duo 2.8GHz 1066MHz frontside bus with 6MB L2 Cache, 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM, Nvidia GeForce 9600 GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory, 320GB Hard Drive and Apples newest OS X Leopard operating system, sheesh!

She even included a 500GB Time Capsule 802.11n Wi-Fi Hard Drive and a copy of made for MAC Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare! (I gotta give the Sales person at the Apple store a big hug for suggesting to my wife that a video game would be good for learning about the new OS!) Which I promptly loaded up and watched in absolute amazement!! Cant wait to see FSX via Bootcamp on a remote widescreen monitor!!!

If anyone out there has thought about going the Apple MAC route rest assured you will not be dissapointed!


Codeseven
<!-- / message -->

Hi Codeseven,
Congratulations on getting a real computer! After being a PC man until about 2-1/2 years ago, I finally got sick of PC crap - you all know what I'm talking about errors, lockups, blue screens of death, and all of the other BS, I realized how many MONTHS of my life I had spent trying to get PCs to do what they should do without my intervention.

I run a Mac Pro with Boot camp - (included on OS Leopard) which I use to run Windows XP for one purpose only - games. Anything else - anything important or meaningful to you - use your Mac. Even on my "old" Mac Pro - I still get great framerates on FSX and all of the other 3-D games I run. Guess how many times I have had to "upgrade" my Mac Pro - Zero. How many times have I called tech support? Zero. Guess how much time and money I spend trying to ward off malware - Zero. That's on a 2-1/2 year old machine that I use for everything from flight sims to editing video/burning DVDs, web publishing - on and on.

Everything about the Mac is SOOOOO much better, smoother, more reliable. Stuff that would take hours/days/weeks with no success at the end on the PC takes 10 minutes and have a nice day on the Mac. I'd set up XP on your Boot Camp Virtual machine - Vista is crap, wanna-be a Mac OS. (I have to use it at work) Use that to run your games - everything else - forget Windows. You have gone from a beat up old Yugo to a Mercedes, my friend. I'm sure that like me, you'll never look back. People who talk junk about Macs have never used one for the most part, or if they did, it was long ago, before Intel chips could run Windows faster than most, if not all PCs for your games. OK, maybe (emphasis on maybe) Macs cost more than PCs. It's not a huge difference - the real question is this: How much is your LIFE worth? Is it worth an extra grand, say, to NOT spend the next 4 years of your life as a slave to a piece of crap machine that requires your constant tweeking, intervention, and babying just to get it to WORK PROPERLY? There's no question in my mind!

Good Luck and congrats!

Ghostrider

 

[Kiwikat]

I just don't know how to follow that... ROFLMAO

Maybe when I can breathe again... I'm just laughing too much.

Thanks for that bit Ghost...

 

[Ghostrider]

Glad you enjoyed it, Kiwikat! Here's some more food for thought: Let's take the example of burning video onto DVDs to play in a DVD player. (Slightly OT, yes, but indulge me - my point will become clear) I spent literally years trying to do this on three different PCs from reputable manufacturers - (Dell and HP) and two different OSes. I got inside the boxes. I have 15 years of experience doing this on PCs - have upgraded, replaced or repaired every piece inside a PC in some form or another. I spared no expense, made every upgrade, bought every new software package and hardware peripheral that came out, to the tune of a couple grand, and guess what - I think I successfully burned 1 (ONE) DVD. (After the machine ran all night to do it). Normally, the next morning I would run downstairs and find an ejected DVD-R, and an "Unknown Error" message on the screen. This DVD-R is what we would call a "coaster" because it's only use is now holding cold drinks.

Fast forward to Mac Pro. As a 100% Mac virgin, within minutes, I had my video edited, and was putting my blank DVD-R into the burner. Ten minutes later, out pops perfection. A DVD that looked much more professional, and worked perfectly the first time, and every time thereafter. I was so happy I could have s$%t myself. Then I reflected on the money, and more importantly the TIME (I keep coming back to that) that I had WASTED on PCs, and it made me angry. What was that big "savings" with PCs? You saved a few hundred bucks, maybe? At what cost in lost time with your family, or doing other things that are important, meaningful and fulfilling to you? Just to make the damn thing work like it's supposed to? Am I missing something here? Computers should make your life simpler, not more complex. That is the paradigm that one must grasp to get one's head around adopting a Mac. Now that Macs can run windows (for games, the only thing Windows is worth owning for) I cannot imagine ever purchasing another PC for any reason.

Here's another tidbit: I have never opened the case of my Mac. Never had any desire to. In my world, when you open the case, it's for one reason: there's a problem. Framerates are getting too low, or something is broken. I guess if a person genuinely likes tinkering with PCs, and it's a hobby, go for it. Like I said, my Mac makes my life easier, more efficient and productive (and fun). We all know that PCs make life more complicated. If you want to drive a Mercedes - fast, strong, and reliable - get a Mac. If you want to drive a jalopy that you're always fixing - get a PC.

OK, I'll shut up now -

Ghostrider

 

[Butcherbird17]

Most problems with any PC or Mac are from the person behind the monitor.:typing: I know if I owned a Mac i'd find a way to break it. But that's me, I like to tinker.

Joe

 

[kilo delta]

Let's take the example of burning video onto DVDs to play in a DVD player. (Slightly OT, yes, but indulge me - my point will become clear) I spent literally years trying to do this on three different PCs from reputable manufacturers - (Dell and HP) and two different OSes. I got inside the boxes. I have 15 years of experience doing this on PCs - have upgraded, replaced or repaired every piece inside a PC in some form or another. I spared no expense, made every upgrade, bought every new software package and hardware peripheral that came out, to the tune of a couple grand, and guess what - I think I successfully burned 1 (ONE) DVD. (After the machine ran all night to do it). Normally, the next morning I would run downstairs and find an ejected DVD-R, and an "Unknown Error" message on the screen. This DVD-R is what we would call a "coaster" because it's only use is now holding cold drinks.


Ghostrider

Funny you should mention this. I'm an avid PC enthusiast and dabble from time to time in video editing. I recorded my youngest childs school Nativity play just before Christmas (by request of her teachers), uploaded it via firewire to my PC, edited it in Pinnacle Studio 12 with lots of transitions, dubbed on some music, made custom DVD menus and burnt off 25+ DVD's (without getting even one coaster) and all within one day! Each disc burnt off in less than 4 minutes.
If you had a problem burning off DVD's the issue was down to poor quality media (DVD-R) or a poor quality burner.

 

[Ghostrider]

Funny you should mention this. I'm an avid PC enthusiast and dabble from time to time in video editing. I recorded my youngest childs school Nativity play just before Christmas (by request of her teachers), uploaded it via firewire to my PC, edited it in Pinnacle Studio 12 with lots of transitions, dubbed on some music, made custom DVD menus and burnt off 25+ DVD's (without getting even one coaster) and all within one day! Each disc burnt off in less than 4 minutes.
If you had a problem burning off DVD's the issue was down to poor quality media (DVD-R) or a poor quality burner.

Like I said, my experience was over years with multiple PCs, OSes, burners, DVD-Rs, and every piece of software Pinnacle put out during that time. None of them was worth a crap. I have quite a collection of pinnacle software, add-ons, and hardware peripherals - you are more than welcome to all of it. Maybe they finally made it work. But they got all of of the time and money they're gonna get out of me. :wave:

Ghostrider

 

[Bjoern]

FSX - smooth, no stutters, 20FPS straight.
Cold start bug - gone (so far).
Blackbox - up and running again.
The lost 600Mbytes of Ram - screw them!


A clear case of taking the cute, nice girl next door over the hot, touchy super model from across the street.


*Hugs his customized XP x86 SP3*


Next stop: Windows 7.

 

[kilo delta]

@ Bjoern Glad you've managed to get your FSX up and running again.....now tweek it some more till it's broken again!:caked::kiss:


@ Ghostrider Hmm, I too have several years of experience of video editing with multiple PCs, OSes, burners, DVD-Rs, and every piece of software Pinnacle put out during that time as have a number of my colleagues and thousands of others who have not suffered in the same manner that you have.
If your problems weren't hardware or software related then I guess Butcherbird17 is right...........it must be pilot error.