Fueling the discussion...

[hubbabubba]

Bonjour Ivan,

Yes and no.

When I made precise conversion of the Mosquito tanks, I noted the rounding-off. But I did not investigated further.

Any idea on how I could test this?

 

[Ivan]

Hi Hubbabubba,

So I am not imagining things and you have seen it too.

To test: Make every tank on the plane under a gallon and see if it can run. That's what I would do.

- Ivan.

 

[hubbabubba]

Hi Hubbabubba,

So I am not imagining things and you have seen it too.

To test: Make every tank on the plane under a gallon and see if it can run. That's what I would do.

- Ivan.

Just tried it. I made all tanks, except tip tanks, to 0.9. Engines never started, telling me I was out of fuel! Jerry Beckwith's gauge only registered the presence of tip tanks. The fuel switch I'm testing now (more on that later) showed no fuel.

So this mean that all my precise calculations to convert imperial gallons into US gallons were done for nothing. This also means that capacity should be rounded to the closest full number of gallons if we don't want the AIR file to do it for us and round to the first integer.

A 1.9 gallons would equal one gallon in fact.

 

[Ivan]

Yup....

Sounds like a pretty cool flight model. The only tanks on the aircraft are the tip tanks and they are not useable.

Now don't WE all feel stupid. I did the same thing with the last few flight models. The conversions were carried out to about 8 decimal places precision and just rounded to the tenth in the AIR file. The 5.8 gallon "Reserve" tank in my Fokker E.III Eindecker just became a 6.0 gallon tank!

Looks like I need to revisit the A6M Zeros, P-40, and just about everything else back to the Hellcat though I don't suppose it makes all that much difference when the tanks are large.

So much for precision.... Sheesh!
- Ivan.

 

[hubbabubba]

Yup....

Sounds like a pretty cool flight model. The only tanks on the aircraft are the tip tanks and they are not useable.

Now don't WE all feel stupid. I did the same thing with the last few flight models. The conversions were carried out to about 8 decimal places precision and just rounded to the tenth in the AIR file. The 5.8 gallon "Reserve" tank in my Fokker E.III Eindecker just became a 6.0 gallon tank!

Looks like I need to revisit the A6M Zeros, P-40, and just about everything else back to the Hellcat though I don't suppose it makes all that much difference when the tanks are large.

So much for precision.... Sheesh!
- Ivan.

Actually, your 5.8 gallons were most probably rounded at 5 gallons, not 6. The AIR files are rounding to the integer, disregarding any number after the decimal point!

The gauge I'm testing right now is also showing the remaining fuel in percentage, so it should have shown 100% on all tanks. It did not; all were at 0%. The tip tanks were the only one to show on Jerry's gauge because I left them at 1 gallon (they're not showing on the gauge under test).

In short, if you were to convert a 450 Imp gal to US gal, it would give 540.4277, rounded at 540 gal by the AIR file. But a 457 Imp gal would give 548.8344 US gal, rounded to 548 gal by the AIR file. In the latter case, better enter 549 ourselves. No?:mix-smi:

 

[Ivan]

Regarding 5.8 gallons as the reserve tank on the Eindecker, what I had meant to say was that I just finished changing the AIR file so it now reads 6.0 gallons. That lost 0.8 gallon was what got me to looking to begin with. I also changed the places for the two tanks so that they act as main and reserve. The Eindecker panel isn't anywhere close to the actual thing. It already has too many instruments. I don't really want to add a fuel selector.

My P-40C loses 0.65, 0.25, and 0.35 gallons from each of three tanks. On THAT AIR file, I may just leave things as they are because those are all reasonable values for trapped or unuseable fuel. On a side note, I just finished taking the plane up for a test of terminal velocity. From 35,000 feet, I never went faster than about 550 mph TAS.

- Ivan.

 

[hubbabubba]

Hello Ivan

Just a bit of confusion ; isn't the first time and won't be the last!

Feeling stupid you say? Duh...:isadizzy:

 

[hubbabubba]

Name of the gauge: TANK5S.GAU
Internal name: none
Organization: none
Version: unknown
Copyright: none, from Chuck Dome

Size at 1/1 ratio; 93 width, 140 height

View attachment 20716

Visual: 12 bitmaps, bitmap #1 is the background. Bitmaps #2 to #11 are representing vertical green slider indicators and their masks. Bitmap #12 represent the "button".

Audio: none

Functioning: The button is on the ALL position and, if moved before start-up, will return automatically on that position upon start. Position are, from left to right; OFF - A - L - C - R - A - ALL.

Effect: On ALL position, all tanks (with the exception of wing tips tanks) are emptying according to the "no gauge" pattern already described in previous posts. In OFF position, engines starve and no fuel is spend.

On L position, left auxiliary tank is emptied. Once empty, main left tank is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

On R position, right auxiliary tank is emptied. Once empty, main right tank is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

On A to the left position, left auxiliary is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off.

On A to the right position, right auxiliary is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off.

On C position, center #1 is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

CONCLUSION

I included this tank selector in my review for two reasons;

1- It is a very useful gauge in a test panel. Not only does it switches, but you have a general view of your fuel status in an instant. Too bad it does not cover all CFS1 tanks.

and;

2- Chuck Dome's commentary in an accompanying document entitled UNITANK.TXT are revealing;

You should be aware that FS98 aircraft obey certain rules regarding tank
usage. If ALL tanks are selected, the two aux tanks and the center tank will
all drain together until empty. At that point, FS98 automatically switches
to the left and right main tanks, which then drain together. If there are no
aux tanks, or if they are empty at startup, the left main, right main and
center tanks will all drain together. If the center tank is selected, it
will drain by itself until empty. There is no automatic switch when the
center tank is empty. If either the left or right main tank is selected, its
auxiliary tank will drain first. Like the center tank, the left and right
main tanks do not trigger an automatic switch when empty, if chosen
separately. Because of the way the aux tanks are connected to the main
tanks, I'm not sure if it makes any difference to have separate switch
settings for the aux tanks. I have, however, included them anyway.

This confirms my own deductions. Next time, I will start reviewing CFS1 stock fuel switches gauges.

 

[Ivan]

I hit a strange situation last night. I was test flying my P-47D-27 to check trim and after about 20 minutes or so noticed that the Aux fuel tank was down to about 75. THEN I noticed that the fuel selector was set to the MAIN tank.... I wonder what happened? The engine didn't cut when I switched tanks, so I believe it was working. This plane is using the stock P-47D panel.

I will be looking at it tonight when I get a chance and will be checking again with a different gauge.

- Ivan.

 

[hubbabubba]

Name of the gauge: FW190a.gau
Internal name: none
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Version: 1.0.5020
Copyright: © 1983-1998 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

Size at 1/1 ratio; 20 width, 70 height at low resolution, 30 width, 105 height at high resolution.

View attachment 20910

Visual: 4 bitmaps for both resolutions, each complete backgrounds. Numbered 1 - 2 - 3 top to bottom.

Audio: none

Functioning: The "lever" is on the 1 position and, if moved before start-up, will return automatically on that position upon start. After each mouse click anywhere over the gauge, the "lever" goes to the next position in a loop following this sequence; 1 > 2 > 3 > 1. You can't click to go backward.

Effect: On initial 1 position, all tanks (with the exception of wing tips tanks) are emptying according to the "no gauge" pattern already described in previous posts.

On 2 position, center #2 tank is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

On 3 position, center #3 tank is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

On subsequent passage to 1 position, center #1 tank is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

If you want to "tap" on auxiliary-main wing tanks again, you must cut-off the engines, either by selecting an empty tank or by cutting the engines, en restart them by pressing the E key.

CONCLUSION

The Fw190A only has center tanks and this gauge will work perfectly on them. But you have to remember that, if you don't click on it, it will empty the tanks in the "no gauge" order and start with the center #3 or #2, whichever contains fuel, tank despite pointing initially to the number 1 position. You can also use wing tanks as long as you do not click on the gauge or, if you do, by restarting your engines as described above.

You can modify the appearance of the gauge but must remember that, being a "clustered" gauge, it will show on any other aircraft associated to that gauge. I strongly suggest that you rename it before starting modifications. All bitmaps appear to have transparency in them. Also remember to make the change for both resolution.

 

[Ivan]

Hi Hubbabubba,

I believe you just described what I confirmed this evening for the stock P47D fuel selector. The standard aircraft checklist should list a check for the fuel selector because it won't work until the switch is used for the first time.

BTW, Why are you trying to describe so many fuel selection gauges?

- Ivan.

 

[hubbabubba]

BTW, Why are you trying to describe so many fuel selection gauges?

I'm just doing something that should have been done eons ago. The discoveries we're making are proof of that.

I'm only describing genuinely original switches. They all have their own original solution to fuel management, but they also obey to basic rules. Knowing both should help designer. I know it will help me.

How long ago has this game been released?

 

[Ivan]

The stock fuel gauges for CFS seem like obvious choices to describe as would be the FS98 stock gauges. I am still missing what the selection criteria are for the other gauges you have described. BTW, shouldn't you also list the actual gauge inside the monster gauge cluster for the stock aircraft?

The FW 190A gauge is what I used for the P-40s with a slight cheat for the markings.

The Hurricane Mk.I fuel selector should be fun!

- Ivan.

 

[hubbabubba]

The stock fuel gauges for CFS seem like obvious choices to describe as would be the FS98 stock gauges. I am still missing what the selection criteria are for the other gauges you have described. BTW, shouldn't you also list the actual gauge inside the monster gauge cluster for the stock aircraft?

The FW 190A gauge is what I used for the P-40s with a slight cheat for the markings.

The Hurricane Mk.I fuel selector should be fun!

- Ivan.

Hello Ivan,

Just to clear things before going on;

The stock fuel gauges for CFS seem like obvious choices to describe as would be the FS98 stock gauges.

There is no FS98 stock fuel management gauge. All fuel switches gauges ever made for FS98, and often used in CFS1 third party panels, are custom made. This is why I wanted to study them in a "CFS1 style" AIR file. I was the first surprise to see them work, even when sections 302 and 1003 were removed. Apart from ignoring central tanks #2 and #3, which were new additions for CFS1, they worked quite well.

I am still missing what the selection criteria are for the other gauges you have described.

All the gauges I described, minus one, are original. They all act differently and give different results. But "trends" could be observed that are constant in each gauge. More on that in my final conclusion.

BTW, shouldn't you also list the actual gauge inside the monster gauge cluster for the stock aircraft?

Why? I'm only preoccupied with fuel switches within these cluster. I thought it was obvious. The bitmaps used are subsets of the .GAU file, the programming of the gauge is, likewise, a subset of instructions. If there is one thing these "monster" gauges are lacking, it is flexibility.

The Hurricane Mk.I fuel selector should be fun!

I was working on that one when you posted. We may have different perspectives on what constitute "fun", we'll see...

 

[Ivan]

I'm not quite sure what you mean about there being no stock FS98 fuel gauges. I figure that some of the stock aircraft that came with FS98 must have fuel switches. Are you saying that none of them do? I will go check tonight with my FS98 installation.

BTW, do you fly with Auto Mixture?

- Ivan.

 

[hubbabubba]

I'm not quite sure what you mean about there being no stock FS98 fuel gauges. I figure that some of the stock aircraft that came with FS98 must have fuel switches. Are you saying that none of them do?

Yep! That's exactly what I meant. I had to look into my FS98 CD to make sure before answering your post.

BTW, do you fly with Auto Mixture?

Again, yep!

 

[hubbabubba]

Name of the gauge: Hurricane_1.gau
Internal name: none
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Version: 1.0.5020
Copyright: © 1983-1998 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

Size at 1/1 ratio; 62 width, 65 height at low resolution, 98 width, 102 height at high resolution.

View attachment 21383

Visual: 4 bitmaps for both resolutions, each complete backgrounds. Backplate has the following inscriptions; PORT (9 O'clock); CENTER (12 O'clock); STBO (3 O'clock); RESERVE (6 O'clock, non-operable). Underneath, we can read FUEL TANK SELECTOR.

Audio: none

Functioning: The switch button is on the CENTER position and, if moved before start-up, will return automatically on that position upon start. After each mouse click anywhere over the gauge, the button goes to the next position in a loop following this sequence; CENTER > STBO > PORT > CENTER. You can't click to go backward.

Effect: On initial CENTER position, all tanks (with the exception of wing tips tanks) are emptying according to the "no gauge" pattern already described in previous posts.

On STBO position, auxiliary right tank is emptied. Once empty, main right tank is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

On PORT position, auxiliary left tank is emptied. Once empty, main left tank is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

On subsequent passage to CENTER position, center #1 tank is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

If you want to "tap" on auxiliary-main wing tanks again, you must cut-off the engines, either by selecting an empty tank or by cutting the engines, en restart them by pressing the E key.

CONCLUSION

I was a bit surprised to see the CENTER position only tapping the center #1 tank. Again, you have to remember that, if you don't click on it, it will empty the tanks in the "no gauge" order and start with the center #3 or #2, whichever contains fuel, and wings tanks despite pointing initially to the CENTER position. If center tank #1 is empty, you can still tap on center #2 and #3 by restarting the engines.

I wonder what would happen if I placed the FW190A fuel switch and this one on the same panel...

 

[hubbabubba]

Name of the gauge: P47d.gau
Internal name: none
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Version: 1.0.5020
Copyright: © 1983-1998 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

Size at 1/1 ratio; 61 width, 61 height at low resolution, 97 width, 97 height at high resolution.

View attachment 21394The dial was uploaded as a transparent GIF to mimic real rendering. The background is actually a black square.

Visual: 3 bitmaps for both resolutions, each complete backgrounds. Backplate has the following inscriptions; MAIN ON (12 O'clock); AUX ON (3 O'clock).

Audio: none

Functioning: The switch button is on the MAIN ON position and, if moved before start-up, will return automatically on that position upon start. After each mouse click anywhere over the gauge, the needle goes to the other position, switching from MAIN ON to AUX ON.

Effect: On initial MAIN ON position, all tanks (with the exception of wing tips tanks) are emptying according to the "no gauge" pattern already described in previous posts.

On AUX ON position, center #2 tank is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

On subsequent passage to MAIN ON position, center #1 tank is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

If you want to "tap" on auxiliary-main wing tanks and center #3 again, you must cut-off the engines, either by selecting an empty tank or by cutting the engines, en restart them by pressing the E key.

CONCLUSION

This switch acts like the FW190A switch, minus the center #3 tank, the "main" tank being #1 center and the "auxiliary" being #2 center.

 

[hubbabubba]

Name of the gauge: P51d.gau
Internal name: none
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Version: 1.0.5020
Copyright: © 1983-1998 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

Size at 1/1 ratio; 42 width, 38 height at low resolution, 68 width, 61 height at high resolution.

View attachment 21440 Again, the gauge bitmap was treated as a GIF with transparency to show the "shield" shape.

Visual: 4 bitmaps for both resolutions, each complete backgrounds. Backplate has the following inscriptions; FUEL TANK SELECTOR (12 O'clock, non operable); 92 MAIN tank L (7 to 9 O'clock); FUS. tank 85 GAL (5 to 7 O'clock); 92 MAIN tank R (3 to 5 O'clock).

Audio: none

Functioning: The switch button is on the FUS. tank 85 GAL position and, if moved before start-up, will return automatically on that position upon start. After each mouse click anywhere over the gauge, the needle goes to the next position, cycling from FUS. tank 85 GAL to 92 MAIN tank R to 92 MAIN tank L to FUS. tank 85 GAL in a loop.

Effect: On initial FUS. tank 85 GAL position, all tanks (with the exception of wing tips tanks) are emptying according to the "no gauge" pattern already described in previous posts.

On 92 MAIN tank R position, auxiliary right wing tank is emptied. Once empty, main right wing tank is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

On 92 MAIN tank L position, auxiliary left wing tank is emptied. Once empty, main left wing tank is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

On subsequent passage to FUS. tank 85 GAL position, center #1 tank is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

If you want to "tap" on center #2 and #3 tanks, you must cut-off the engines, either by selecting an empty tank or by cutting the engines, en restart them by pressing the E key.

CONCLUSION

This switch acts exactly like the Hurricane_1 switch. Again, FUS. tank 85 GAL (FUS. for "fuselage"?) only taps on center #1 tank, which means that no CFS1 stock gauge uses all tanks. I will try a "combo" with this gauge and FW190A gauge.

 

[hubbabubba]

Name of the gauge: Spitfire_MKI.gau
Internal name: none
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Version: 1.0.5020
Copyright: © 1983-1998 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

Size at 1/1 ratio; 32 width, 59 height at low resolution, 45 width, 88 height at high resolution.

View attachment 23815

Visual: 5 bitmaps for both resolutions, each complete backgrounds. Backplate is rectangular and has, on top, the inscription FUEL, two "levers" side by side are depicted with up ON and down OFF positions. The right lever is identified by the vertical inscription RESERVE and the left lever by the word MAIN

Audio: none

Functioning: The levers are on the ON positions and, if moved before start-up, will return automatically on these positions upon start. After each mouse click anywhere over the gauge, the levers go to the next position, cycling from ON ON to OFF OFF to ON OFF to OFF ON to ON ON in a loop.

Effect: On initial ON ON position, all tanks (with the exception of wing tips tanks) are emptying according to the "no gauge" pattern already described in previous posts.

On OFF OFF position, no tanks are emptied and engines cut-off.

On ON OFF center #1 tank is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

On OFF ON center #2 tank is emptied. Once empty, engines cut-off and no other tank is solicited.

On subsequent passage to ON ON position, all tanks (with the exception of wing tips tanks) are emptying according to the "no gauge" pattern already described in previous posts.

This is the only CFS1-specific gauge that covers all tanks (minus tip tanks) in a loop. It is probably due to the fact that it is the only CFS1 fuel switch with an all off position.

CONCLUSION

This is the "best" CFS1 fuel switch available because, no matter the combination, you can empty all tanks in a normal cycle of clicks.