Gary Burns' airfields problem

Penn,

This is the Waypoint text for the mission [waypoint_path.0]
id=5000
waypoint.0=2,1,N51* 14.00',E1* 19.15',+0,,,,0,,9032,0,1
waypoint.1=1,0,N51* 22.34',E1* 31.83',+735,,,,224,,0,1,1
waypoint.2=1,0,N51* 17.04',E1* 38.79',+735,,,,224,,0,1,1
waypoint.3=4,1,N51* 14.00',E1* 19.15',+0,,,,0,,9032,0,1

But again, it's not just this test mission but any mission using GB's bases.
 
Col_Wolf, i'm gonna take a stab in the dark here and suggest that if your AI landing problem is limited only to the Burn's bases then what you may have is a mesh problem. The AI behavioral symptoms you describe seem to hint that the sim's AI engine is having trouble calculating approaches, which is usually symptomatic of custom, high-end mesh in Dem 7, 8, 9 and 10. Ever tried strafing a mountain or hill in high detail mesh? Its a weird thing, with ground hits producing dirt puffs in the air above the virtual terrain. And if you deliberately crash into a hill or mountain, the same happens with the explosion fireball and smoke -- it's not exactly on the surface of the terrain.

Burn's bases are a bit older than Achim's and Pen's and, IIRC, were produced using stock mesh, so their bgl coding may possibly be at odds with the coding of the newer Dem mesh bgl's in some hidden conflict. Try setting your Hawkinge altitude back to the original and temporarily disable all Dem mesh in layers 13 and 14 of the scenery library. Also, move the Dover cliff's bgl to a temp location outside of the Burn's scenery folder. Delete the ppath.log file and the following files from the main CFS2 folder:

AIRWAY_INDEX
ICAO_INDEX
INDEX_FILE
LAT_INDEX
STR_INDEX
WAYPOINT_INDEX

Delete all filelist.dat's from the airbase subfolders of the SCENEDB folder.

What you've now done is purged all addon mesh and reverted your theater back to the default CFS2 mesh of the SCENEDB\world\scenery folder, assuming that you haven't yet mixed in any addon mesh to this location. So now you're back to the same terrain environment that Burn's started with in his production. Fly your test missions and if all goes to plan, reinstall the Dover cliff's bgl's back to their original location and test again. Allow the AI to land with this landmark in place. If this goes OK then what you now have is a decision about what mesh to use -- Josiah Haut, Pietro Mauri, Rhumba's Dems or default.

You've already eliminated the aircraft as the problem and i thnk we all know from experience with the product that the bases themselves are not at fault, so the only thing that logically remains is the terrain mesh, which BTW is the reason for the floating cliffs.
 
Bearcat,

Would any of those mesh files work with GB bases and Achims? I currently have Achims bases and am using them alot so I would rather keep Rhumbas mesh and just get rid of GB's bases. However since GB's bases cover all the major British bases for my own BoB mission writing and Achims do not, unless there's something new in the D/L's that I dont know about (are you listening Achim LOL) it does not bode well for my BoB mission writing LOL. Someone mentined once before in the forum about standardizing scenery. I agree this is the best way to go since this would eliminate these problems. Just a thought.
 
And noteworthy thought indeed, but in the long run its my opinon that the complex solution would eventually deteriorate as the "one-size-fits-all" shoe being proposed. Seasoned campaign and mission builders tend to be a bit more computer savvy and comfortable with multiple addons and customizations than the average user. So while they might build their public domain projects within a restrictive "standardized" environment for easy user setup experience, they can't stay this course in mission building indefinitely without eventually yielding to the temptation of setting up privatized versions of their public works that somewhat expands on the standardized packages. So they'll end up building two versions of everything: one in a standardized ETO install built with all those easy 'non-conflicting' snap-in elements for example and another version in their private custom ETO install based on scenery and other complex miscellany that they REALLY love and they've worked out the inherent conflicts with tweaks and workarounds -- everything "hammered" into place...LOL. You might think i'm reaching for a bridge too far here, but its something that always comes to mind when i think of standardized mission-building and using products built on such a platform. Being the free-spirit i am, i can see myself hammering those types of downloads into my custom install by modifying the mission files to fit my preferred addons.

But honestly, regarding the ETO and MTO, i think we're much closer to standardization than ever before with all the popular scenery that's been universally accepted over the past few years. Unlike those early years with everybody going in different directions and new stuff constantly popping up all over that conflicted with the old, we all seem to be settled on the same things now, due to the diligent work of some very dedicated scenery designers and MB facilitators, ala Rami, SDC, Pen, Achim. Still can't say the same for the PTO though...

Getting back to your mesh question, i used Rami's suggestion (in his ETO installation doc) and put all of Rhumba's D5, 7 and 8 bgl's into the same location as my default CFS2 mesh in the SCENEDB\world\scenery folder, mixing the two. So there's basically nothing in the mesh category to activate or deactivate and move up or down in my library as you have with your's. Rhumba's mesh is permanently fixed at the same hierarchy level as my default mesh, but supersedes the default in the sim engine by reason of its higher DEM detailing. Something else you might try as well.

WRT the other mesh options besides Rhumba's, i believe that Haut's CFS2/FS2000/FS2002 Euromesh package may have a better compatibility edge on all of Mauri's work, which was specifically designed for FS2004. So there's that too...

My apologies for the lengthy post...
 
Bearcat

I have Rami's original ETO install DOC but I cant find anything about putting the DEM mesh LOD 7 and 8 files in the SceneDB/World/Scenery folder. Just how to put them into SceneDB with thier own folders and a scenery folder inside that. Only the LOD5 Files are in SceneDB/World/scenery. Did I miss something or is this a new Doc?

Also, I've noticed that the base icons, whether in mission builder or free flight for GB's bases are in the middle of the field and not at the take off point like Achims are. Maybe that's why they're landing too soon.
 
Guys,

I think I've solved the problem. I'm using Rami's master airbase DAT file. This put the base icons in the middle of GB's bases. Took note of the end of the runway Lat and Lon, rewrote it in the airbase DAT file to match, changed the start stop etc... positions to match Achims Bodney and it works! Planes takeoff and land at the right position...well Biggen Hill anyway but it's a start. Gonna try Tangmere next I'll keep you informed.
 
Got all nine of GB's fields working correctly now with one exception. My Hurricane MK1A still nosedives before the runway and crashes. However, if I switch it's AIR file with a plane that does work, it's fine. So the problem was actually two fold. Bases are now correct but one AIR file does the same thing. Anyone know why one specific AIR file does this on AI landing?
 
CW;

I've seen a lot of A/C with high Flap Lift when used as AI's do very wierd things landing. You might try dropping the Flap Lift down and see if that helps. That goes for very high Flap Drag too.
 
_486_Col_Wolf said:
I have Rami's original ETO install DOC but I cant find anything about putting the DEM mesh LOD 7 and 8 files in the SceneDB/World/Scenery folder. Just how to put them into SceneDB with thier own folders and a scenery folder inside that. Only the LOD5 Files are in SceneDB/World/scenery. Did I miss something or is this a new Doc?
Click to expand...

Glad you found the handle Wolf. Another lesson learned and obstacle overcome. Sorry i mispoke regarding the mesh installation. I should clarify that the install doc that i have actually suggests using Haut's mesh and states that it all should be put into the world\scenery path. Since i preferred Rhumba's mesh, i simply applied this method to his LOD 5,7 and 8 packages. Probably could've gotten by just fine with LOD 8 only, but i figured that i'd just dump them all in and let the sim sort out which to use on the fly.
 
Hi Bearcat,

Sorry in advance for any ignorance! I'm new to this side of things. But could you explain what the pro's and cons of that method of mesh installation are?
 
Reply...

Ian Astill said:
Hi Bearcat,

Sorry in advance for any ignorance! I'm new to this side of things. But could you explain what the pro's and cons of that method of mesh installation are?
Click to expand...

Ian,

The benefits are that the you have greatly enhanced elevation in many areas of CFS2, as well as enhanced coastlines and other improvements. The problems with it are that it takes a long time to set up, which is why I created installation guides.
 
Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear

I installed the mesh as per your tutorial Rami and the effects are brilliant, I was just wondering what was the difference between installing them your way and installing them Bearcat's way
 
Ian, i think you misunderstood me. My "way" is actually Rami's way as outlined in his guide. I followed the same procedure that you did if you installed your mesh exactly per his instructions using Haut's Euromesh. I only substituted Rhumba's mesh in lieu of Haut's mesh...that's the only difference. Rhumba's LOD 7 and 8 mesh provides a little more terrain detail than Haut's in some places, but the difference its not worth sweating over if you're happy with what you have. They both provide marked improvement over stock mesh, so there you go...
 
Ah right, I used his guide which uses Rhumba's mesh. If putting the DEM's into the Scenery folder makes little difference compared to putting them in seperate Scenedb folders then I have nothing to worry about
 
OK, changing the flaps derag and lift to a known good setting did not work. The plane touches down slighty nose down then seems to stop short flipping onto it's nose. Braking strength is slightly below normal value of a known good plane and auto spoiler and braking is is set to false in AIR file. Anything else I can look for?
 
Wolf, its much more complicated than a few ticks to the flaps and brakes. When you start tweaking air files specifically for better AI landing you wade into some very deep waters. Unless you've already spent countless hours in the "dark art" of flight dynamics, you can easily drift into the "cascade zone" where every little change you make for the positive creates an equally negative side effect. Tell me which Hurricane model you're working with and post the *air and aircraft.cfg files here in this thread. I'll take a run at it. I've had some successes in the past with this sort of problem so maybe i can get it done for you.
 
Bearcat,

I really appreciate the help. The AIR file is definitly the problem since switching it out with another known good AIR file solves it. But this is impracticle since then I'd have a Hurricane that flies like a Spit or someting else LOL. I'll post the air and config files for it though. I'm using the 1GB Hurricane MK1A model, and config ect... with an air file from Thicko's Hurricane MK1. OK wait, the file upoad manager is telling me they're invalid files. Well here's the CFG from the 1GB Hurricane. Dont know how to get you the AIR file. Let me know how you want to continue.

//////////////////////////////
// 714th 1% Hurricane MkIa //
//////////////////////////////
[fltsim.0]
title =Hurricane MkIa 56th Squadron
sim=HurricaneMk1a
model=
panel=
sound=
texture=
KB_checklists = CheckList_Hurricane MkIa

[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
empty_weight = 5031
reference_datum_position = 0.0, 0, 0 // (feet) distance from FlightSim Reference position: (1/4 chord, centerline, waterline)
empty_weight_CG_position = 0.12, 0, 0 // (feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical distance from specified datum
max_number_of_stations = 50
station_load.0 = 200, -3.95, 0.0, 0.0 //Pilot Weight (lbs), longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum (feet)
;Moments of Inertia
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 5195
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 4667
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 9134

[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar = 1.0
parasite_drag_scalar = 1.0
induced_drag_scalar = 1.0
elevator_effectiveness = 1.0
aileron_effectiveness = 1.0
rudder_effectiveness = 0.6
pitch_stability = 1.0
roll_stability = 1.0
yaw_stability = 1.0
elevator_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
aileron_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
rudder_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
[piston_engine]
power_scalar = 1.0
[propeller]
thrust_scalar = 1.0
[exits]
number_of_exits = 1
exit_rate.0 = 0.4 ;Percent per second
[electrical]
max_battery_voltage = 24.0
generator_alternator_voltage = 28.0
max_generator_alternator_amps = 60.0
[contact_points]
//0 Class
//1 Longitudinal Position (feet)
//2 Lateral Position (feet)
//3 Vertical Position (feet)
//4 Impact Damage Threshold (Feet Per Minute)
//5 Brake Map (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)
//6 Wheel Radius (feet)
//7 Steer Angle (degrees)
//8 Static Compression (feet) (0 if rigid)
//9 Max/Static Compression Ratio
//10 Damping Ratio (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped)
//11 Extension Time (seconds)
//12 Retraction Time (seconds)
//13 Sound Type
//14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)
//15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)
point.0=1,-17.39,0,-3.5,3200,0,0.30,012.0,0.40,1.8,0.80,6,11,0,130,165
point.1=1,2.46,-4.59,-7.65,2200,1,1.05,0,0.50,2.9,0.78,10,9,2,130,165
point.2=1,2.46,4.59,-7.65,2200,2,1.05,0,0.50,2.9,0.78,11.5,10.2,3,130,165
point.3=2,0,-20,-1.25,1200,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,5,0,0
point.4=2,0,20,-1.25,1200,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,6,0,0
point.5=2,-20.25,0,1,2400,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,9,0,0
point.6=2,2.41,0,-2.08,1200,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,4,0,0

static_cg_height = 6.58 //(feet) altitude of CG when at rest (altitude when loaded on ground)
static_pitch = 11.65 //degrees (pitch when loaded on ground)
[flaps.0]
type=1 // 1 - tail, 2 - lead
span-outboard=0.12 // 0.0 .. 1.0
extending-time=5 // seconds
flaps-position.0=0 // degrees, KIAS
flaps-position.1=15,173 // degrees, KIAS
flaps-position.2=25,162 // degrees, KIAS
flaps-position.3=35,131 // degrees, KIAS
flaps-position.4=45,110 // degrees, KIAS
damaging-speed=175 // KIAS
blowout-speed=200 // KIAS
[Views]
eyepoint=-1.28,0.0,2.067
[LIGHTS]
panel=-0.01, 0.00, 1.60, fx_vclight
[forcefeedback]
gear_bump_nose_magnitude=6000 ; 0 - 10000
gear_bump_nose_direction=18000 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
gear_bump_nose_duration=250000 ; in microseconds
gear_bump_left_magnitude=6000 ; 0 - 10000
gear_bump_left_direction=35500 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
gear_bump_left_duration=250000 ; in microseconds
gear_bump_right_magnitude=6000 ; 0 - 10000
gear_bump_right_direction=00500 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
gear_bump_right_duration=250000 ; in microseconds
ground_bumps_magnitude1=3250 ; 0 - 10000
ground_bumps_angle1=8900 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
ground_bumps_intercept1=5.0
ground_bumps_slope1=0.48
ground_bumps_magnitude2=750 ; 0 - 10000
ground_bumps_angle2=9100 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
ground_bumps_intercept2=0.075
ground_bumps_slope2=1.0
crash_magnitude1=10000 ; 0 - 10000
crash_direction1=01000 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
crash_magnitude2=10000 ; 0 - 10000
crash_direction2=9000 ; 0 - 35999 degrees
crash_period2=75000 ; in microseconds
crash_duration2=2500000 ; in microseconds
 
OK, if you're using Thicko's air file along with the 1% cfg, then right away it looks like you may have a balance problem. That could account for the AI struggling to maintain level flight at low landing speeds. No need to get too technical here, but i think i have a handle already. Since i have both models, along with their respective FDE files, i can sort it out from my own downloads. I'll get back to you with an answer tomorrow...
 
OK Wolf, here's my version of the 1% Hurri. Now, keep in mind that i only tested these at the Hawkinge location (defo altitude), no other Burn's bases were used. I ran a flight of six (incl self) in a test CAP mission over the Channel that took us out to the coast of France and back. Final approach from the last waypoint over Channel to Hawkinge began at about 11 miles out, altitude 2500 ft. My wingies landed smoothly, stopped amazingly short after touchdown and turned quickly in taxi to park. You might even find these realistically better in a dogfight as well.

Thanks for letting me lend a hand...i must say that i enjoyed this little distraction. I've been collaborating with Morton in a MiG-21 project lately and after pounding away at multiple Mach 2+ flight profiles, this was a piece of cake by comparison :icon_lol:
 
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