-
There seems to be an uptick in Political comments in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religious comments out of the forums.
If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.
Please note any post refering to a politician will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment among members. It is a poison to the community. We appreciate compliance with the rules.
The Staff of SOH
Helicopter drift?
- Thread starter rich12545
- Start date
Victory103
SOH-CM-2025
In what flight phase are you in? What model are you flying?
Just cruising. This is for the Pyro. There's a slider called Right Trim Wheel on the far left. I move it to the center but it's almost impossible to get it right on the center so the heli drifts. The RTW has to be moved with the mouse. So I'm looking for a way to trim it a bit left or right.
Pyro Lite?
The Pyro 'Lite' is a strip down version of the payware version. So you don't REALLY expect to get the 'registered' version's flight dynamics now do you? Of course not. I made my own FDEs, as a TurboProp (type 5 engine) and it will do Mach 1 (if you want it to). Otherwise, with gear down it cruises at 250 kts (it's 'souped up').
At any rate, you can use the keypad 'Enter' and '0 (INS)' keys to input trim. You don't have to use the VC gauge. Just be sure to hit Keypad '5' keys to center, or work the rudder, to re-set to zero.
Chuck B
The Pyro 'Lite' is a strip down version of the payware version. So you don't REALLY expect to get the 'registered' version's flight dynamics now do you? Of course not. I made my own FDEs, as a TurboProp (type 5 engine) and it will do Mach 1 (if you want it to). Otherwise, with gear down it cruises at 250 kts (it's 'souped up').
At any rate, you can use the keypad 'Enter' and '0 (INS)' keys to input trim. You don't have to use the VC gauge. Just be sure to hit Keypad '5' keys to center, or work the rudder, to re-set to zero.
Chuck B
I don't have the Pyro lite. I have the Pyro registered version. I've read about the keypad enter and zero but, for whatever reason, my default keys don't have those two and I have no idea what they should be. That's why I started this thread, to find out what trim I can use. I use the vc gauge but can never get it set right in the center so I need some trim.
Need Trim
Oh ok. Sorry. The other thing you can try is after you click on the RTW use the direction keys (on right, below your right shift key) to move the bug (increase/decrease value) with use of right (arrow) or left (arrow) key(s).
Any helicopter will drift with wind, etc to where you will be chasing the 'center' all day long. Try using a little bit (just 'think' of moving it) of aerlion input/nudge. You can do that and watch the result. 'Center' then might be 2 nudge of aerlion LEFT, then 1 nudge of aerlion RIGHT. Get my drift? (sorry for the pun).
Chuck B
Oh ok. Sorry. The other thing you can try is after you click on the RTW use the direction keys (on right, below your right shift key) to move the bug (increase/decrease value) with use of right (arrow) or left (arrow) key(s).
Any helicopter will drift with wind, etc to where you will be chasing the 'center' all day long. Try using a little bit (just 'think' of moving it) of aerlion input/nudge. You can do that and watch the result. 'Center' then might be 2 nudge of aerlion LEFT, then 1 nudge of aerlion RIGHT. Get my drift? (sorry for the pun).
Chuck B
I appreciate you trying to help but I'm just about ready to give up. I tried using the left right arrows and they didn't do what they should. I found a site that gave all the default key assignments so I set those up and they didn't behave as they should. I've learned how to land but just flying is a pain in the ass.
The Pyro is the only heli I've ever flown. I like it because it seems like the perfect VFR/bush aircraft but flying just seems very unstable compared to airplanes. Maybe that's the way all helis fly. I don't know. When flying an airplane, I can get it to height, then using the throttle and trin, it will be pretty stable unless there's a strong wind. The Pyro isn't like that. I can't get it to fly straight with the Right Trim slider. I can't get the speed to stay the same without drifting up or down. I can't get the altitude to stop drifting up or down. I copied/pasted the easy cfg thing from the Bell 206 while turning the aircraft realism settings to easy. I kept increasing the values up even to 50. That doesn't help. I tried moving FSX the sensitivity controls up. That helped a little bit but not much. The Pyro requires micro attention about every 10 seconds. Like I said earlier, maybe all helis are like that. If so, I won't be much interested in flying them. I'd like to write the dev to find out what I can adjust to help but there seems to be no way to reach him. Even his web site doesn't have an email address on it. I've been fooling with this for a few months. It's been frustrating. I don't care about high realism and just want to enjoy flying but the Pyro is not enjoyable. So I think I've reached the end of the line with it. <end rant>
The Pyro is the only heli I've ever flown. I like it because it seems like the perfect VFR/bush aircraft but flying just seems very unstable compared to airplanes. Maybe that's the way all helis fly. I don't know. When flying an airplane, I can get it to height, then using the throttle and trin, it will be pretty stable unless there's a strong wind. The Pyro isn't like that. I can't get it to fly straight with the Right Trim slider. I can't get the speed to stay the same without drifting up or down. I can't get the altitude to stop drifting up or down. I copied/pasted the easy cfg thing from the Bell 206 while turning the aircraft realism settings to easy. I kept increasing the values up even to 50. That doesn't help. I tried moving FSX the sensitivity controls up. That helped a little bit but not much. The Pyro requires micro attention about every 10 seconds. Like I said earlier, maybe all helis are like that. If so, I won't be much interested in flying them. I'd like to write the dev to find out what I can adjust to help but there seems to be no way to reach him. Even his web site doesn't have an email address on it. I've been fooling with this for a few months. It's been frustrating. I don't care about high realism and just want to enjoy flying but the Pyro is not enjoyable. So I think I've reached the end of the line with it. <end rant>
Alan_A
Charter Member
I can't speak to the Pyro since I don't fly it, but in general, all helos are like that - except, maybe, for a few of the bigger, more modern ones that have some form of stability assist. Those are the exception, not the rule. Helos are inherently unstable and the pilot's job is to balance all the forces, and the way they change in different phases of flight. Feels like balancing a plate on a stick. It's not everybody's cup of tea. I spent a year flying almost nothing else in FSX and X-Plane and learned a lot, and became a better pilot, but eventually moved on to other things.
If you want to get a good overview of helo flying, Hovercontrol is a great site - well worth a look.
Hope this helps.
</end>
The Pyro is a unique helicopter. It is fictional but flies like a real heli - plus. I like it because it's perfect for vfr and bush flights. Among other things, it can cruise from a very low speed to 300 kts, it has an excellent view front and sides, a ceiling of 25,000 feet. I modified it to float so it's an amphibian. It also does wild acrobatics but I don't care about that. Now that I understand it is behaving properly and there is no fix, I need to decide if I want to spend a lot of time flying it on that basis. Thank you for your input.
Victory103
SOH-CM-2025
Being a fictional aircraft as well, the FDE was up to the original designer who has answered some of his FAQs on the Pyro site. For your kind of flying, why not a proper bush plane?
New & Improved FDEs
I made some FDEs for it and it fly SOLID. The 'original' FDEs had it yawing and tiping all over the place and would not hold a steady course at any speed. I thought it might be the model. It wasn't. Just bad FDEs. No helio will drop like a brick from 10 ft up and do hard crash on gear (which had wrong values for compression in cnt pts). FAQ's? That don't 'fix' anything. I definitely like the looks of this model-very nice model. Very unique, too. This is why I decided to work on it. I don't have a pilot. Perhaps the registered version does?
I will make a video tonight to show improvement and post link later tonight as I have the clips already. He claimed it would cruise at 250 kts with top speed of 300 kts. Well mine cruises at 325 kts with top speed of 699 kts (so sue me) and does it 'solid' with no waggle. It will do roll and loop. And when you use rudder to make turn it will not slow down to a 'stall' like the original did. I fly it in FSX Acceleration and will see if it flys (or loads) in FS9.
Chuck B
I made some FDEs for it and it fly SOLID. The 'original' FDEs had it yawing and tiping all over the place and would not hold a steady course at any speed. I thought it might be the model. It wasn't. Just bad FDEs. No helio will drop like a brick from 10 ft up and do hard crash on gear (which had wrong values for compression in cnt pts). FAQ's? That don't 'fix' anything. I definitely like the looks of this model-very nice model. Very unique, too. This is why I decided to work on it. I don't have a pilot. Perhaps the registered version does?
I will make a video tonight to show improvement and post link later tonight as I have the clips already. He claimed it would cruise at 250 kts with top speed of 300 kts. Well mine cruises at 325 kts with top speed of 699 kts (so sue me) and does it 'solid' with no waggle. It will do roll and loop. And when you use rudder to make turn it will not slow down to a 'stall' like the original did. I fly it in FSX Acceleration and will see if it flys (or loads) in FS9.
Chuck B
You might try this in your .cfg file:
[helicopter]*
low_realism_stability_scale = 1.0, 1.0, 1.0
============================================================
This scales the stability of the helicopter to make the aircraft easier to fly. It has
no effect on the other helicopters. The stability factor is broken down into three
components: pitch, bank, and yaw damping.
The stability factor is scaled according to the pitch, bank, and yaw values set. For
example, increasing the first value (pitch) to 1.1 increases the pitch-damping factor
by 10 percent. Increasing these values excessively will result in excessive damping,
making it hard to control the helicopter.
The stability factor is scaled by the General Flight Model Realism slider in the
Realism Settings dialog box. At the highest realism setting, it is scaled to 0% (no
additional damping); at the minimum setting, it is scaled to 100 percent. Changes to
the stability factor in the .cfg have their largest effect when the Realism Setting is
set to minimum, and have no effect when Realism Setting is set to maximum.
*See: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526949.aspx#mozTocId6418
[helicopter]*
low_realism_stability_scale = 1.0, 1.0, 1.0
============================================================
This scales the stability of the helicopter to make the aircraft easier to fly. It has
no effect on the other helicopters. The stability factor is broken down into three
components: pitch, bank, and yaw damping.
The stability factor is scaled according to the pitch, bank, and yaw values set. For
example, increasing the first value (pitch) to 1.1 increases the pitch-damping factor
by 10 percent. Increasing these values excessively will result in excessive damping,
making it hard to control the helicopter.
The stability factor is scaled by the General Flight Model Realism slider in the
Realism Settings dialog box. At the highest realism setting, it is scaled to 0% (no
additional damping); at the minimum setting, it is scaled to 100 percent. Changes to
the stability factor in the .cfg have their largest effect when the Realism Setting is
set to minimum, and have no effect when Realism Setting is set to maximum.
*See: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526949.aspx#mozTocId6418
I do fly bush planes. The Quest Kodiak is my favorite. I like the Pyro for its flexibility and great view and other things. If I want to go slow like 50 kts no problem. If I want to go fast like 250 kts no problem. It has a great view front and sides. It has a built in radalt. I have a hard time knowing how far agl I am in a 2D environment so that's a real plus. I used a radalt in fs9 all the time but have not found one for fsx. I modded it to be an amphibian. It's simply a perfect vfr & bush aircraft if it would be just a bit more stable.
Yeah, I use that as I explained a few posts up. Copied/pasted it from the Bell 206B. Kept raising the values all the way up to 50 (with the realism on easy) but it didn't do any good. I have no idea why.
I've gone into the config to try and figure out how I might improve things but just don't understand it very well.
Do yourself a favor and set 'Realism' to 'MEDIUM' AND LEAVE IT THERE FOR ALL AC. PERIOD. You DON'T 'need' to set it to 'HARD' either-no benefit anywhere that I can see. Tweak the air and cfg files to make if fly like you want (or how it is supposed to fly). And you won't 'gain' anything by setting to 'EASY' (EVER). Case closed (I hope).
You COULD (please 'read' SHOULD) set your controller (joystick) to 100% Sensitivity for all axis with 0% Null for all EXCEPT throttle. It should be 95% with 5% Null (there is a scientific reason for it-in many forums, etc). Then calibrate your joy in Sim and you will ENJOY flying the helios. I will also suggest a 10-key pad, USB, $15, set to left of keyboard to control the throttle (tap, tap, tap = FINE control of throttle) for flying helios. Makes a LOT of difference, believe me. A TON of difference.
When you place, AND LEAVE, those 2 areas, or things, the same you can then right away tell the good ac FDEs from the bad ac FDEs. You do NOT 'compensate' the bad with changes to those 2 areas, or things. You tweak where needed (cfg's and air). I have been flying since FS98, and tweaking, and I NEVER change those 2 things. NEVER.
i fell asleep and just woke up (10:30 pm) as I am just getting better from a BAD BAD head/chest cold, fever and all, and just konked out after taking cough syrup (nocked me out!) so the video won't be ready until the wee hours (Pacific Time) Thursday.
Chuck B
You COULD (please 'read' SHOULD) set your controller (joystick) to 100% Sensitivity for all axis with 0% Null for all EXCEPT throttle. It should be 95% with 5% Null (there is a scientific reason for it-in many forums, etc). Then calibrate your joy in Sim and you will ENJOY flying the helios. I will also suggest a 10-key pad, USB, $15, set to left of keyboard to control the throttle (tap, tap, tap = FINE control of throttle) for flying helios. Makes a LOT of difference, believe me. A TON of difference.
When you place, AND LEAVE, those 2 areas, or things, the same you can then right away tell the good ac FDEs from the bad ac FDEs. You do NOT 'compensate' the bad with changes to those 2 areas, or things. You tweak where needed (cfg's and air). I have been flying since FS98, and tweaking, and I NEVER change those 2 things. NEVER.
i fell asleep and just woke up (10:30 pm) as I am just getting better from a BAD BAD head/chest cold, fever and all, and just konked out after taking cough syrup (nocked me out!) so the video won't be ready until the wee hours (Pacific Time) Thursday.
Chuck B
Well here is the video (I am still sick, just getting better). It don't show Pyro going 500 kts, but it can go even faster. There is no instability at any speed. The only thing you can't do it take off with full (100%) power. Enjoy.
Chuck B
Link: https://youtu.be/jXPos8zwNwg
Chuck B
Link: https://youtu.be/jXPos8zwNwg
Terminology
Rich,
FDEs mean 'Flight Dynamic Edits'. Just a term that means 'tweaking' of cfg and air file to produce (what developers call) a 'flight model' (ie:usuall 'generic' dynamics). Making an FDEs for an 'AC' (aircraft/airplane) implys you adopt dynamics specific to IT (piston, turbo-prop or jet) plus any reqired add or change particular to the model (flaps, engine power, spoiler, etc) to 'match' it's intended use or performance demands (specs). That's all it means.
What you see is all original and you will not find the equivalent FDEs anywhere. The cfg is different and the air file is different. So, yes, a lot of changes are made to a pre-existing FDEs (in this case from my Rotodyne and my Harrier files which I combined). I have been working on V-22, Harrier GR7 and Rotodyne FDEs since FS2002. I also made FDEs for F-1 race car, Porsche 911, etc. The videos are at YouTube under 'Napamule' or just my name 'Chuck Backus'. So, no, you are not a bad helicopter pilot, this model's 'original' FDEs SUCK. That all I can say.
The air file can be opened by 'AirEd' a program (freeware) that you install and then point all air files to open with it. If you start now you should 'know' what you are doing in about 5 years or so. Sorry, there is no 'manual' about air files. It's 'trial-n-error' (and experience) that allows you to prevail when it comes to making changes to air file.
Chuck B
Rich,
FDEs mean 'Flight Dynamic Edits'. Just a term that means 'tweaking' of cfg and air file to produce (what developers call) a 'flight model' (ie:usuall 'generic' dynamics). Making an FDEs for an 'AC' (aircraft/airplane) implys you adopt dynamics specific to IT (piston, turbo-prop or jet) plus any reqired add or change particular to the model (flaps, engine power, spoiler, etc) to 'match' it's intended use or performance demands (specs). That's all it means.
What you see is all original and you will not find the equivalent FDEs anywhere. The cfg is different and the air file is different. So, yes, a lot of changes are made to a pre-existing FDEs (in this case from my Rotodyne and my Harrier files which I combined). I have been working on V-22, Harrier GR7 and Rotodyne FDEs since FS2002. I also made FDEs for F-1 race car, Porsche 911, etc. The videos are at YouTube under 'Napamule' or just my name 'Chuck Backus'. So, no, you are not a bad helicopter pilot, this model's 'original' FDEs SUCK. That all I can say.
The air file can be opened by 'AirEd' a program (freeware) that you install and then point all air files to open with it. If you start now you should 'know' what you are doing in about 5 years or so. Sorry, there is no 'manual' about air files. It's 'trial-n-error' (and experience) that allows you to prevail when it comes to making changes to air file.
Chuck B
Ok, thanks for that info. I'm not looking to change the Pyro flight dynamics. I just want the Right Trim to start in the middle rather than the far left and also make the throttle along with the pitch more stable so they don't change every few seconds. I downloaded the AirEd from simviation. Hopefully I'll figure out how to make those changes.