History and Details of the P-51D-5-NA (A Flight Sim Project)

[Bomber_12th]

Thank you for reminding me about the fuel stain - that will be tuned down a bit (as with so many other elements before, I think I took it a bit too far). I saw this photo and went with it (you'll have to zoom into the photo to fully see all of the staining), though obviously this photo was taken several months after the D-Day invasion, since the stripes had been reduced to "identification stripes", rather than "invasion stripes", through an order that was handed down some time after the D-Day invasion (hard to remember all of the specific dates).

A unique detail on 4th FG Mustangs, is that the red paint used on the nose was actually quite glossy (despite the fact that most model builders will only ever choose to use flat paints), thus I have added a bit of gloss to the red paint on the scheme, though I think I need to add a bit more reflection to the paint, after looking at all of these photos again.

 

[Bomber_12th]

Open these images in a new tab to view them in full resolution.

 

[skyhawka4m]

 

[jankees]

John, I like them.
But to be honest, I have always liked everything you make..
One detail though, you show 7 crosses. I know he had 7 victories (4.5 air and 2.5 ground) but didn't he score his last victories in november and december 44, including two on the day he died? That would then not correspond to the aircraft having full invasion stripes, nor there being 7 crosses on this aircraft.
Or did he mark earlier half victories as full victories? Then the 7h would be on the 2nd of july 1944, so maybe he still had the full stripes by then?
You probably have pics of the aircraft in this confguration, or not?

 

[Bomber_12th]

Thank you, Jan Kees! The two photos I have of the aircraft show 7 crosses applied, and in both photos the invasion stripes are still present, though by the time the photos were taken the upper surfaces had been worked at to remove the top-sides of the invasion stripes, so the photos were likely taken around late summer of '44, after his July 2nd kill, and before the next kill he tallied, which didn't happen until November of '44 (after coming back off of leave, I assume). By that time, I don't recall that any Mustangs would have still been flying, sporting any form of the D-Day invasion stripes. I therefore believe that even the half-credits/ground-kills, as officially given, were marked as full credits on the aircraft (by far not the only time this was done, and it was done by even bigger figures). What I'll need to do is to once again find out about what time the order was given to delete the top-sides of the invasion stripes - if it came before July 2nd, then there would very likely have only ever been 6 kill markings on the side of the plane, during the time it sported full invasion stripes.

Furthermore, if the kill markings on the side actually totaled his 'official' record of 7-kills (combining together all of his half-credits and full-credits), Emerson wouldn't have been credited with 7 until after his death.

Edit: After looking through some sites, the general impression I get, is that the top-sides of the invasion stripes were deleted throughout and around the period of late June and into July, with the stripes completely gone by December of '44.

 

[Bomber_12th]

Another interesting factor in all of this, is that there was never a single dorsal fin filleted P-51D, painted in full invasion stripes, as the the dorsal fin filleted D-models and fillet-kits did not start to arrive until August of '44. There were also very few P-51D's anyway (all P-51D-5-NA's of course) in service on and around D-Day, to have full invasion stripes applied, with only a few fighter groups at that time even having P-51D's at that point. Therefore it is very rare to see a P-51D sporting full invasion stripes, and all of those that did, were P-51D-5-NA's. With schems like "The Comet" and Donald Emerson's, I felt it important to reproduce this rare look on the aircraft. (Cripes A' Mighty 3rd also had full invasion stripes applied, before they were eventually reduced to only being on the lower-sides of the aircraft, though I chose to depict it at that later date with the reduced stripes, so as to include all of the kill markings that were painted on the aircraft by the time of its final use by Preddy)

 

[skyhawka4m]

Another interesting factor in all of this, is that there was never a single dorsal fin filleted P-51D, painted in full invasion stripes, as the the dorsal fin filleted D-models and fillet-kits did not start to arrive until August of '44. There were also very few P-51D's anyway (all P-51D-5-NA's of course) in service on and around D-Day, to have full invasion stripes applied, with only a few fighter groups at that time even having P-51D's at that point. Therefore it is very rare to see a P-51D sporting full invasion stripes, and all of those that did, were P-51D-5-NA's. With schems like "The Comet" and Donald Emerson's, I felt it important to reproduce this rare look on the aircraft. (Cripes A' Mighty 3rd also had full invasion stripes applied, before they were eventually reduced to only being on the lower-sides of the aircraft, though I chose to depict it at that later date with the reduced stripes, so as to include all of the kill markings that were painted on the aircraft by the time of its final use by Preddy)

Anyway you would be willing to do it with full stripes even if all kills were not present?

 

[Bomber_12th]

John, I certainly think that could be made possible through an eventual repaint.

Here are a few photos of P-51D-5-NA's, captured during the time that they had full invasion stripes applied (the fighter groups shown only include the 4th, 352nd, 357th, and 339th - I'm not sure if you'd be able to find any P-51D's sporting full invasion stripes in any other group).

 

[jankees]

nice pics!
I do believe the 359th had one or two D's with full stripes as well, but I'm away from home and my library, so I can't check right now.
Nice pic of 44-13411, never saw that one. It actually crashed in the Netherlands I believe.

edit: google is our friend, here's CV-Z:

 

[Henry]

ohohoh oh!:ernae:i betone of myroom matesin my last nursing home would like one of those airman 1stclassA WILSON
H

 

[Bomber_12th]

Thank you for providing an additional photo/information about the 359th, Jan Kees! There were a couple of other photos I wanted to post as well, though I can't find them on the internet, of Willie O. Jackson's 352nd FG P-51D-5-NA 44-13398, in which there is a photo of the aircraft on the 15th of June, '44, showing full invasion stripes, and the nose still had the standard-issue black identifier paint, before the group colors were applied. Another photo of the aircraft, taken a week later, still shows it in full invasion stripes, but this time with very fresh matte medium blue paint applied.

Here are the last screenshots, for now, showing the final texture work on 44-13317 (the angle captured in the fourth screenshot, really shows off the legendary lines of the original P-51D). I should also add that all of these screenshots are un-edited, taken at the freeware OrbX Bowerman scenery.

 

[jankees]

looks good enough to me, bring it on!
(and don't forget a discount for your loyal followers...)

 

[Thunderbolt]

brilliant job

 

[skyhawka4m]

looks good enough to me, bring it on!
(and don't forget a discount for your loyal followers...)

YES!!!! I own all your planes even the FS9 birds......bring on the discount!!! Its ok...I'll buy it anyway.

 

[jankees]

talking about early D's with full stripes, look what I found:


View attachment 50719
OK, they are overpainted, but that means that it must have had a full set of stripes!

and then there is this one:

so it would seem there were actually D's with other FG's around during D-Day

 

[Bomber_12th]

Yep, there are a lot more photos showing examples that had full invasion stripes at one time (either painted over or removed from the top-surfaces), rather than actual photos still showing the full stripes present. For instance, Lou IV, included in the product, obviously had full invasion stripes as well, but depicted how it is in the famous photos of it, there is fresh paint covering the top-surfaces of the invasion stripes.

I think, however, that most D-models that ended up being painted in full invasion stripes, weren't finished in invasion stripes and didn't see action for the first time, until after June 6th. For example, 44-13316 didn't arrive to England until June 4, 1944, and then had to pass through the air station depot, before being assigned and flown to the 357th FG (on top of other preperations/markings application, etc.). Even though there is a photo showing it painted in full invasion stripes, it very likely did not fly its first combat mission until after June 6th. You can look at the other serial numbers on other examples, and based on 44-13316's June 4th arrival in England, you can sort of have an idea as to the where-abouts around June 6th, that a particular P-51D-5-NA would have been in England or not. (Donald's serial number ends in 317, Frenesi's ends in 318, and Cripes' ends in 321 - quite amazing that all of these were likely under the same NAA roof at the same time, under production).

"Fools Paradise" would make for a great, eventual repaint (part of the 363rd FG). Here's another classic photo with the same aircraft in it, though not as often seen as the previous photo (note the re-application of the stencils over the black paint on the nose - this was something that was done at the air-depot level, when the black identification markings/bands were applied, before the arriving aircraft were assigned a unit - these stencils often show up on 20th FG P-51's, as for the group nose markings, they simply made use of the already-painted black noses, and added a couple of white bands, so the depot-applied stencils remained to be seen - in other fighter groups, the black nose were completely painted over with their groups colors, so this type of detail would not be seen any longer).

 

[Bomber_12th]

Here's an example that never wore invasion stripes at all, 44-13500, the "Flying Dutchman". Still a few more details to add and address. ; )

 

[jankees]

ow John, quit teasing...

edit: meanwhile, back at home, checking: CV-Z 44-13404 was flown on D-day, by Col tacon, the CO of the 359th FG, according to the Osprey book on the 359th.
Apparently the stripes were painted on in the dark, which explains why the are not straight..

 

[Bomber_12th]

It's a fun study, invasion stripes. Most P-51D's didn't have full invasion stripes applied until after D-Day/June 6th, so there wasn't quite the same rush as there was, say on C-47's that were painted the day before, with mops. Many Mustangs actually had quite neatly-painted invasion stripes, with rather crisp edges around the stars-and-bars. Other groups, like the 361st, actually taped off the stars-and-bars, leaving a very nice and crisp outline around the insignias (which was also done when OD/RAF green was applied to the top-surfaces).

Here's another P-51D-5-NA, though one of the very last produced, which was fitted with one of the early dorsal fin fillets while at the factory (only the very last few D-5's were manufactured with the fillet), rather than in the field using a factory-supplied kit. This photos were taken in mid-late August, and the aircraft itself had likely arrived in England in late July/early August, at which point invasion stripes were no longer being painted on, but black and white identification stripes were still being applied (the same as reduced invasion stripes). So in the case of this aicraft, it never had full invasion stripes. (This scheme would make for another great repaint, using the model for "Marie")

 

[jankees]

note the scratched paint, I can't wait..